Hornby announce SR 58' Maunsell Rebuilt Ex-LSWR Coaches

[Oldddudders]

There is some information about these coaches in chapter 7 Non Corridor Stock in An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches by Mike King and the chapter headed New Underframes for Old Coaches in Maunsell's SR Steam Passenger Stock 1923-1939 by David Gould.

 

 

Ooh, Robin! An original 1978-edition Gould! I have one, too, bought for me in 1978 according to the inscription, but generally refer to the Third Edition 2000 first.

[Edwardian]

Tim Dubya - I appreciated the thought!   

[Tim Dubya]

Tim Dubya - I appreciated the thought!   

 

You're welcome.

 

I did have a go at the Roxey kits for these rebuilds with disastrous results.  

 

Luckily Dave was able to supply me the parts I had murdered on my first attempt but these are still waiting for me to have another go.  I also have the Branchlines versions (Ebay bargain) to build but I suspect I'll be buying the Hornby coaches while I pluck up the courage (will need to repaint unless they are released in BR(S) guise).

 

Cheers

[cromptonnut]

Hmmm I only need a 400 ft long shed to make a scale model of the entire Lyme Regis branch.

[PaulRhB]

Hmmm I only need a 400 ft long shed to make a scale model of the entire Lyme Regis branch.

Or a 100ft one and three 180° corners!

[Dunsignalling]

The thought of spending fifty five quid each on a number of brass kits and then becoming sufficiently competent to build one is enough to encourage me to cut and shut.  Before someone tells me that it's easy when you know how and that it's the bounden duty of each generation of modellers to acquire proficiency in these Dark Arts (!), pre-retirement I am just not going to have the time or money to master anything in brass.  Nothing against it, in fact I believe etched brass coach construction to be something to aspire to.  I admire it, I approve of it entirely, and, one day, I will try it. Rather, it's just what seems practical in my particular circumstances. 

 

So, I will study these coaches with a view to where to saw them into bits!

But the underframes and bogies on the Hornby coaches will be (correctly) pure SR Maunsell. That will mean making a new chassis adding an awful lot of extra parts, expense and difficulty to the process. You will also need to remove the lower bodyside "drip-strip" which might be difficult to do invisibly.

 

Having done quite a bit of underframe detailing on older r-t-r coaches and Kirk kits, I can assure you the cost of all the bits adds up something alarming! In my case, the various fittings, a pair of Ratio bogies and a set of wheels came to about £30 per coach for the Kirk 59' Bulleids and that was a few years ago. In your case, it could well turn out to be rather more expensive than the kits overall.

 

Have you considered paying a professional to build basic body shells from the kits you would like, then pass them back to you to do the parts of the job you are confident with?

 

John  

[NHY 581]

The Oxford Diecast Ivo Peters Bently is dark blue, which certainly would look black in B&W photos but one assumes the blue is correct.

Midnight blue in fact. Very dark.

 

 

NHY 581 is a 1951 Bentley Mk VI 4.25L engine...mmmmm. The second Bentley Ivo owned, I believe.

 

I wonder how close the colour was to S&DJR Prussian blue..could this have coincidental?

 

Rob

Edited June 16, 2015 by nhy581

[Edwardian]

Modelling is full of the opinionated.  I have tried to explain, in a non-tendentious way, why the brass coach route, at present, is not for me.  I take on board the points about the drawbacks of this particular cut and shut operation, and I thank Dunsignalling for his constructive response. Consider the idea dropped.

[phil gollin]

Midnight blue in fact. Very dark.

 

 

NHY 581 is a 1951 Bentley Mk VI 4.25L engine...mmmmm. The second Bentley Ivo owned, I believe.

 

I wonder how close the colour was to S&DJR Prussian blue..could this have coincidental?

 

Rob

 

This is already available from the "other Adams Radial supplier" ;

 

http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/76/76BN6001%20Ivo%20Peters%20Bentley%20MkVI.html

 

(They also do a 1:43rd / O Gauge version ).

[NHY 581]

Cheers Phil. I have one. It was a given really. Nice model.

 

Rob.

[clarkeeboy56]

Modelling is full of the opinionated.  I have tried to explain, in a non-tendentious way, why the brass coach route, at present, is not for me.  I take on board the points about the drawbacks of this particular cut and shut operation, and I thank Dunsignalling for his constructive response. Consider the idea dropped.

Well said, well apart from the "Consider the idea dropped" bit.  It's YOUR hobby too. Don't let modelling snobbery dictate to you how you go about enjoying your hobby, FWIW I CAN solder, but I prefer building in plastic....so I'm also contemplating a bit of cut n'shut myself....and for the purist out there.. I'm happy to compromise on the accuracy of MY Models...your mileage may vary....

[Robin Brasher]

My problem with coach kits is that they are not designed to run on toy town curves like my layout. They seem to have three link couplings and bogies set too far in.

[Edwardian]

Thanks, but, nevertheless, clarkeeboy, I regret my last post.  I posted it because I felt that blunt speaking should not cross the line into rudeness, and I felt, in some naive egalitarian way, that this principle should apply to all, even those who have been here a very long time and whose expertise and reputation means they command respect and carry weight. Perhaps I should have just accepted the snub and got on with life.  I am a little disappointed, because, if I may be entirely frank, I had long hesitated about joining any forum because of the perception that the hobby is dominated by grumpy old men laying down the law.  However, my experience has in general proved that this perception is wide of the mark.  Most people are patient, supportive, courteous and helpful and very giving of their time.  Criticism seems to be constructive, well-made and kindly meant.  Further, in retrospect, I realise that I have been oversensitive.  There are reasons why that might be the case, but it is not for me to plead special circumstances.  Instead I will endeavour to 'man-up'!

 

Anyway, more to the point, does any Southern expert know when the first of these rebuilds entered service? I think the Hornby blurb said the rebuilds commenced in May 1935, but did any enter service that year and is it known how early in the year? 

[chris45lsw]

Thanks, but, nevertheless, clarkeeboy, I regret my last post.  I posted it because I felt that blunt speaking should not cross the line into rudeness, and I felt, in some naive egalitarian way, that this principle should apply to all, even those who have been here a very long time and whose expertise and reputation means they command respect and carry weight. Perhaps I should have just accepted the snub and got on with life.  I am a little disappointed, because, if I may be entirely frank, I had long hesitated about joining any forum because of the perception that the hobby is dominated by grumpy old men laying down the law.  However, my experience has in general proved that this perception is wide of the mark.  Most people are patient, supportive, courteous and helpful and very giving of their time.  Criticism seems to be constructive, well-made and kindly meant.  Further, in retrospect, I realise that I have been oversensitive.  There are reasons why that might be the case, but it is not for me to plead special circumstances.  Instead I will endeavour to 'man-up'!

 

Anyway, more to the point, does any Southern expert know when the first of these rebuilds entered service? I think the Hornby blurb said the rebuilds commenced in May 1935, but did any enter service that year and is it known how early in the year?

 

The diagram 31 Lavy thirds were created Jan-May 1935.

 

The diag. 99 bke thirds and diag. 418 lavy bke compos (which formed 2-LAV sets 42-46) were built in April 1936. I have a photo dated 29 May 1936 showing one of sets 42-46 in use on the Lyme Regis branch.

 

The diag. 98 lavy bke thirds (dimensionally identical to d. 418) were formed Oct-Dec 1936. They were initially in 2-LAV sets 51-54 & 56. Their companion was a LSWR, SR diag. 407, 56ft lavy bke compo. These sets remained intact until the first was disbanded in c.1948.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Ravenser]

My problem with coach kits is that they are not designed to run on toy town curves like my layout. They seem to have three link couplings and bogies set too far in.

 

They have the couplings you fit to them . (a quick look at Coachmann's threads will show one of the country's best coach modellers fitting slimline tension-locks to his kit built coaches)

 

The bogies should be no differently placed on RTR coaches - none of the manufacturers is moving the bogies from where they should be on the prototype, and nobody is reporting they won't go round curves. The more serious issue is that couplings may need to be bogie mounted , and not all types are accomodated (though Ratio and Kirk seem to have catered for mounting tension locks

[Edwardian]

Thanks, Chris.  These days I doubt my sanity, as I seem to have had an entirely one-sided debate on this, somewhat shortened, thread today.  Odd. Anyway, I imagine that, as I pretty much stick at 1935, I will be looking to model pre-rebuild stock.  Good to know one way or t'other whether these will be of use. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Edwardian

[Oldddudders]

Anyone buying these models and hacking them about to suit his or her needs will be warmly applauded by Hornby. Sales are sales. I wonder how many clerestories they've sold over the years to people creating entirely different models?

[bennyboy]

Gone are the days of cutting and shutting old Triang clerestories!

It is interesting though that the Southern Railway used modelling techniques in order to create these coaches!

 

SR Engineer: Hey Mr Maunsell have you seen this article in Railway Modeller?

 

Maunsell : Hmmm, now that is a good idea....

Edited June 16, 2015 by bennyboy

[clarkeeboy56]

Anyone buying these models and hacking them about to suit his or her needs will be warmly applauded by Hornby. Sales are sales. I wonder how many clerestories they've sold over the years to people creating entirely different models?

Hmmm ! Clerestories....

Not sure about Hornby...but EBay have made a few bob out of me over the last month or so!!

[The Bigbee Line]

Anyone buying these models and hacking them about to suit his or her needs will be warmly applauded by Hornby. Sales are sales. I wonder how many clerestories they've sold over the years to people creating entirely different models?

I wonder how many clerestories are still squirreled away for that rainy day...  I have a box with Ratio Midland Suburban sides and some whitemetal ends to create that much sought after push pull set.....

[clarkeeboy56]

I wonder how many clerestories are still squirreled away for that rainy day...  I have a box with Ratio Midland Suburban sides and some whitemetal ends to create that much sought after push pull set.....

It's all good fun! I have Mike King's Southern Push-Pull Stock book and a good supply of Triang/Hornby Clerestories, plus a few GraFar OO Suburban coaches , and am working out how best to build push-pull sets 656 and 723.......

[tractionman]

Top marks to Hornby in providing such a detailed press release too!

 

Good to have so much inf on when and where the stock ran in service, especially for folks like me without an encyclopaedic knowledge of Southern rolling stock but with some Southern locos that could benefit from hauling some of these beauts in due course... :-) 

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

Top marks to Hornby in providing such a detailed press release too!

 

Good to have so much inf on when and where the stock ran in service, especially for folks like me without an encyclopaedic knowledge of Southern rolling stock but with some Southern locos that could benefit from hauling some of these beauts in due course... :-) 

 

cheers,

 

Keith

Many of us who are Southern aficionados lack all the knowledge - which is why volumes like King and Gould are invaluable to giving us a lot of detail. And however much I think I know about a subject, there's always someone who knows something else!

[Peter Bedding]

Modelling is full of the opinionated.  I have tried to explain, in a non-tendentious way, why the brass coach route, at present, is not for me.  I take on board the points about the drawbacks of this particular cut and shut operation, and I thank Dunsignalling for his constructive response. Consider the idea dropped.

 

I rather agree. I have unlimited admiration for the chaps who can manipulate cutting tool, soldering iron and airbrush to produce the truly stunning models that we see on these, and other similar, pages. In earlier decades I made attempts at the same results, but the essential skills of hands were lacking. I gave up wasting time and money and have turned to other routes to achieve results that I am now proud to own and display. All too often though I have to bite my tongue when I read an "opinion" that says I am not a "modeller" in the real sense.  

 

I had the good fortune to acquire products from the Northstar Designs range, which can particularly relate to the latest news from Hornby. I would be equally proud of some of the Clerestory conversions that one reader in particular has made.

 

 

Set 20 which, at some time, may well have rubbed buffers with a set from the 42-46 range.

 

PB

[Combe Martin]

Having done quite a bit of underframe detailing on older r-t-r coaches and Kirk kits, I can assure you the cost of all the bits adds up something alarming! In my case, the various fittings, a pair of Ratio bogies and a set of wheels came to about £30 per coach for the Kirk 59' Bulleids and that was a few years ago. In your case, it could well turn out to be rather more expensive than the kits overall.

  

John

I didn't know Ratio made Bullied bogies ?