Driving standards

[boxbrownie]

Then again between May and August it’s busier than the M25!

 

So best to avoid regardless, and besides the minor roads have better views.......

[johnofwessex]

I was taking the kids home from their swimming lesson when a Berk in a Beemer raced through the car park.

 

Where is James Herriot when you need him!

[PatB]

A little late to the party, but, as well as our drink-skippering laws, here in Australia the driver does bear some responsibility for the actions of their passengers, at least regarding seat belt use. It's been a while since I last looked, and there will be the inevitable variations between states though. ISTR that bus drivers are exempt on grounds of practicality, but everyone else is likely to cop a fine for an unbelted passenger. 

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, PatB said:

A little late to the party, but, as well as our drink-skippering laws, here in Australia the driver does bear some responsibility for the actions of their passengers, at least regarding seat belt use. It's been a while since I last looked, and there will be the inevitable variations between states though. ISTR that bus drivers are exempt on grounds of practicality, but everyone else is likely to cop a fine for an unbelted passenger. 

It makes sense for the driver to be responsible, as they are in charge of the vehicle and can turn off the keys.

Also if something goes wrong, an unrestrained person can injure others, not just themselves. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, SM42 said:

Driving in mainland Europe is a lot less stressful than in the UK.

 

You've never driven in Spain or Italy then to name but two, or round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, the only roundabout with its own insurance clause?

 

Mike.

[boxbrownie]

24 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You've never driven in Spain or Italy then to name but two, or round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, the only roundabout with its own insurance clause?

 

Mike.

I loved driving around the A de T........as long as you knew how to “seesaw” through the traffic to get to your exit, great fun.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by boxbrownie

[Joseph_Pestell]

30 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You've never driven in Spain or Italy then to name but two, or round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, the only roundabout with its own insurance clause?

 

Mike.

 

I have driven in both Spain and Italy. Generally less stressful than driving in the UK although the big cities can be difficult.

 

The Place de l'Etoile (Arc de Triomphe) is not a roundabout, it's a gyratory: i.e. you do not give way to traffic already on it. The key to success with a gyratory is to come on to it at the right speed. Place de la Concorde, at the other end of the Champs d'Elysee, is a bit more difficult than the Etoile.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

It's obviously a case of length of exposure to foreign roads which makes a difference. Suffering the idiotic Spanish drivers 24/7 makes me yearn for UK standards of driving, British drivers being appreciative, thoughtful, considerate and aware of other road users, none of which exist in the Spanish psyche, let alone in Spanish drivers. Have you noticed how many Spanish cars are scraped and dinged, and don't even start me on Spanish kamikaze scooterists!

 

Mike.

[ianwales]

Interesting one yesterday, coming up the slip road in Port Talbot to join the M4 I was confronted by a someone who instead of using the slip road to accelerate into the carriageway had decided to stop dead and was indicating waiting for they traffic to slow down to let him/her in as you would at a T junction!

[PhilJ W]

1 minute ago, ianwales said:

Interesting one yesterday, coming up the slip road in Port Talbot to join the M4 I was confronted by a someone who instead of using the slip road to accelerate into the carriageway had decided to stop dead and was indicating waiting for they traffic to slow down to let him/her in as you would at a T junction!

I had that happen a couple of years ago coming on to the A1. It was in very heavy traffic and I was right behind the idiot. Luckily there was a gap in the traffic that appeared at just the right time and I was able to slip in to it. 

[TheQ]

Always an Interesting one that, because the regs say you should filter in.. But if there is nowhere to filter in? You must stop, because it's illegal to drive on to the hard shoulder. I've had it happen a couple of times in 40 odd years of driving .

 

A awkward junction is the old A1 A17 junction at Coddington /Beacon hill, a very tight curve onto it limits speed, and then you have to put pedal to the metal to have any hope of getting up to A1 speed before you run out of sliproad.

[ejstubbs]

15 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Interesting one yesterday, coming up the slip road in Port Talbot to join the M4 I was confronted by a someone who instead of using the slip road to accelerate into the carriageway had decided to stop dead and was indicating waiting for they traffic to slow down to let him/her in as you would at a T junction!

 

Ouch.  I don't think I've ever come across that, thankfully.  More common IME is the individual who hasn't grasped that one reason that the exit slip is nice and long is so that you can slow down safely after leaving the motorway.  Folks who drop from 70mph to 40mph in order to negotiate what they obviously regard as the hazardous bend at the entrance to the slip road are a bit of a menace.  (Obviously some slip roads can have sharper than usual bends once you're off the motorway, or junctions that are prone to tailbacks - are are usually signposted as such.  But most don't.)

[Joseph_Pestell]

13 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Always an Interesting one that, because the regs say you should filter in.. But if there is nowhere to filter in? You must stop, because it's illegal to drive on to the hard shoulder. I've had it happen a couple of times in 40 odd years of driving .

 

A awkward junction is the old A1 A17 junction at Coddington /Beacon hill, a very tight curve onto it limits speed, and then you have to put pedal to the metal to have any hope of getting up to A1 speed before you run out of sliproad.

 

Those regulations, and the slip roads themselves, were based on much lower traffic levels than prevail these days. It is by no means uncommon now to be on  a slip road and have to stop because there is no gap in the traffic long enough to allow you in without compromising the braking distance in front of another road user.

 

But then again, many motorists these days ignore the "give way" lines on a motorway slip road and seem to feel that they have a right to push their way onto the motorway.

 

There is a very real need to rebuild/rearrange a lot of motorway interchanges to reflect the reality of modern traffic volumes.

[Happy Hippo]

44 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Interesting one yesterday, coming up the slip road in Port Talbot to join the M4 I was confronted by a someone who instead of using the slip road to accelerate into the carriageway had decided to stop dead and was indicating waiting for they traffic to slow down to let him/her in as you would at a T junction!

Probably one of the residents of Kenfig. (Think Deliverance!)

Edited September 24, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Happy Hippo]

29 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Always an Interesting one that, because the regs say you should filter in.. But if there is nowhere to filter in? You must stop, because it's illegal to drive on to the hard shoulder. I've had it happen a couple of times in 40 odd years of driving .

I would much prefer to run onto the hard shoulder at speed and then filter on when safe to do so rather than stop and have to join from a standing start, which is theoretically what you should do.  By stopping, the chances of getting smacked up the back end and possibly getting pushed out into lane one to be crushed by 44 tonnes of LGV is more of a risk.

 

As a matter of interest, although it may be illegal to drive on the hard shoulder, advice after a stop on the hard shoulder is quite specific.  Use the hard shoulder to accelerate up to road speed and then signal your intention to join Lane 1 and then do so when it is safe.

 

Of course with the new system of deathtrap smart motorways with small lay byes every so often, with little or no opportunity to accelerate safely in order to re-join the motorway, I'm surprised there have not been more serious collisions on this type of road.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

makes me yearn for UK standards of driving, British drivers being appreciative, thoughtful, considerate and aware of other road users, 

Call Skully and Moulder......Mikes been abducted 

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

 

Ouch.  I don't think I've ever come across that, thankfully. 

 

One where it was quite common was J34 on the M6 north, but it was rebuilt as part of the new Heysham road so there's no problem now. Couldn't really see what was on the motorway until you'd almost reached it and no space for acceleration and no hard shoulder either (if there was it would've probably been converted to an acceleration lane years ago, like the one at Stoke). Cars joining there frequently had to stop. At least plenty of traffic on the motorway seemed familiar with it and would often pull out in time even if it's busy (that normally sounds like allowing for people trying to shove in but I feel it was justified considerate behaviour there).

 

I suppose what would've been better would've been to have a lane drop between the exit and entrance so the junction could've joined as a lane gain even with the capacity problems that would've caused, but since it's all been rebuilt that's academic now.

[Compound2632]

I generally aim to pass busy junctions in lane 2. But then there's the black Audi accelerating down the slip road intent on swinging straight into lane 2 or 3.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Compound2632

[PatB]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It's obviously a case of length of exposure to foreign roads which makes a difference. Suffering the idiotic Spanish drivers 24/7 makes me yearn for UK standards of driving, British drivers being appreciative, thoughtful, considerate and aware of other road users, none of which exist in the Spanish psyche, let alone in Spanish drivers. Have you noticed how many Spanish cars are scraped and dinged, and don't even start me on Spanish kamikaze scooterists!

 

Mike.

I still have vivid memories of a drive (fortunately I was passengering) from Bilbao to Aviles on the eve of the Easter holidays. My, but it was exciting, as the local drivers appear to have no concept of the near-miss. 

 

Possibly the most amusing bit, though, was when we stopped for a break, to let our chauffeur unwind a little. The one open bar in the town had a row of decrepit mopeds and small motorcycles outside. While we watched, a succession of little elderly drunk men staggered out of the bar, donned a variety of equally elderly and disreputable crash helmets and wobbled off into the dark Asturian night, feeble magneto lighting flickering almost invisibly. Presumably it was less dangerous than it looked, as they all looked to be 70+ and were not yet dead. 

[boxbrownie]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I generally aim to pass busy junctions in lane 2. But then there's the black Audi accelerating down the slip road intent on swinging straight into lane 2 or 3.

Are you sure it wasn’t a BMW?     Mustn’t be too “Carist” now......

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Are you sure it wasn’t a BMW?     Mustn’t be too “Carist” now......

 

 

On the M40 in Oxfordshire, they're generally out of sight before one has had time to register. However, in that part of the world, I believe a BMW is rather infra dig. 

[Nick C]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Those regulations, and the slip roads themselves, were based on much lower traffic levels than prevail these days. It is by no means uncommon now to be on  a slip road and have to stop because there is no gap in the traffic long enough to allow you in without compromising the braking distance in front of another road user.

 

One of the worst for that round here is the slip from the A34 onto the A303 eastbound - a 90 degree corner immediately prior to a very short slip (no room to extend it due to the bridge taking the one road over the other) resulting in a slow start, no advance visibility, and very little room to accellerate. I always try to make sure I'm in lane two as I approach on the 303 if I can, to allow anyone coming up room to pull out. 

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Those regulations, and the slip roads themselves, were based on much lower traffic levels than prevail these days. It is by no means uncommon now to be on  a slip road and have to stop because there is no gap in the traffic long enough to allow you in without compromising the braking distance in front of another road user.

 

But then again, many motorists these days ignore the "give way" lines on a motorway slip road and seem to feel that they have a right to push their way onto the motorway.

 

There is a very real need to rebuild/rearrange a lot of motorway interchanges to reflect the reality of modern traffic volumes.

A system of rearranging slip road traffic has been around for a while, certainly fairly common in NZ & Australia.

You might think that they wouldn't work, but surprisingly they do work rather well.

 

This instruction video is from Queensland, note the bus lane to bypass the queue, in Victoria they use it for trucks too.

 

 

[SM42]

5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You've never driven in Spain or Italy then to name but two, or round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, the only roundabout with its own insurance clause?

 

Mike.

 

No, but they can't be as bad as the M25.

 

For fun filtering I can recommend the 92 / S11 junction west of Poznan, travelling west from the city and turning south towards Katowice .

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4422192,16.7421028,3a,75y,316.4h,73.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6jHSdyYIel9xf02Nk9gf0g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

About 100m or so  for entering and exiting traffic to mix with a sharp bend for the exiters to negotiate after filtering across.

 

70kph limit? That's for wusses

 

Even that is less stressful than the UK.

 

 

Andy

[SM42]

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I would much prefer to run onto the hard shoulder at speed and then filter on when safe to do so rather than stop and have to join from a standing start, which is theoretically what you should do.  By stopping, the chances of getting smacked up the back end and possibly getting pushed out into lane one to be crushed by 44 tonnes of LGV is more of a risk.

 

I remember some years ago one of those fly on the wall documentaires about the traffic police.

 

A car had stopped at the end of the motorway slip road to give way and the police pulled up behind and advised via the PA for driver to use the hard shoulder.

 

In fact it's not even a give way line at the bottom of a slip road, just a carriageway divider

 

Andy

Edited September 24, 2020 by SM42