BlueWotsit Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Being useless at soldering, I am looking for the best way to connect dropper wires around the layout to larger bus wires. Just wondering what methods people use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2015 Being useless at soldering, I am looking for the best way to connect dropper wires around the layout to larger bus wires. Just wondering what methods people use Solder! Its really not that hard, especially the sort of soldering required for that type of work. You don't need to be that fussy about appearance, since its buried underneath - usually. But if you're really not happy to learn, what size wires are you trying to join? There are different connectors that can be used, but it depends on the size wires & the difference thereof. What type of wires are you using for the bus? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueWotsit Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 The bus wire is either 2.0 or 2.5mm not completely sure as bought it a while back after reading article recommending the thickness of it The droppers are either 1.0 or 1.5mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 Take a look at Express models website as they have complete kits for non soldering systems Regards John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Dicky Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Soldering has got to be the preferred method, if you are managing to solder droppers onto the rails then soldering onto a bus wire should be straight forward. Admittedly working under a baseboard can be awkward depending how agile you are. Screwed connectors are one alternative but if your layout is portable and subject to knocks even slight ones, can over time result in screws loosening. Then you have IDC connectors (Insulation Displacement Connectors). The most popular being the Scotchlok or suitcase connectors. Although they can cope with a range of wire sizes problems can occur when there is a wide difference in wire sizes being connected. Use one that suits the bus wire and it may not sufficiently displace the insulation on the thinner wire, likewise use one that suits the thin wire and it may almost sever the thick wire. Other connectors are the Wago type. Push in types are best suited for solid wires whilst the lever type will connect both. The only downside is that you cannot do inline connections and need to cut and reconnect the bus wires. Every connection that has to be made is a potential problem and it is better to avoid cutting wires where neccesary. Richard Edited November 6, 2015 by Tricky Dicky 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 This is how I do mine as I simply do not want to solder under the baseboard. The bus is 2.5mm, the connecting wire to the snaplock 1.5mm and the bus wires are 1x0.6mm. 1.0mm or 1.5mm wires are far too thick for droppers that are short. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) These are known as " suitcase" connectors, use a good brand like 3M and ensure you remain within the wire sizing specifications. If you do they are a good idea, most trouble with these is a function of cheap brands and improper wire size by selecting the correct ones, you can get different " run " and " tap" wire dimensions, with 18 AWG ( 1mm) taps and 10-12 AWG for the " run", this allows you to avoid the very inefficient and poor chocolate block connector shown. 3M calls then "tap and run connectors" in the scotchlok product range for example, there are many others, avoid the " junk" in the local auto parts shop Edited November 6, 2015 by Junctionmad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 Junctionmad, on 07 Nov 2015 - 06:35, said:this allows you to avoid the very inefficient and poor chocolate block connector shown. Nothing wrong with the chocolate box connectors as far as I am aware. I have a large layout with an estimated 800-900 droppers and using these is the only practical solution. Separate spade connectors for each wire would be unmanageable. I have had no problems at all with the layout wired this way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 There has been another thread with nearly the same title: klick me! Possibly more interesting info there? Armin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 If you are unable to solder, what method are you going to use for attaching the droppers to the rails? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted November 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Hi again BlueWotSit Dont be put off by any negativity......... I have sucessfully reduced my soldered connections to an absolute minimum for years in both 4mm and 7mm modelling by using so called suitcase clips and also ribbon cable. There are three reasons for failure using these 1 Poor quality product and crap plastic 2 Using the wrong cable. 3 Incompetent workmanship. As an extra insurance try and use clips with double blades..... These are from Farnell.co.uk. I use cable from Expressmodels And everything else from Allcomponents Obviously dropper wires need soldering Regards John Edited November 7, 2015 by ROSSPOP 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Then you have IDC connectors (Insulation Displacement Connectors). The most popular being the Scotchlok or suitcase connectors. Although they can cope with a range of wire sizes problems can occur when there is a wide difference in wire sizes being connected. Use one that suits the bus wire and it may not sufficiently displace the insulation on the thinner wire, likewise use one that suits the thin wire and it may almost sever the thick wire. Alternatively, buy the correct parts that are designed for joining wires of two different sizes Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueWotsit Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Thanks one and all for the comments made - very helpful and should allow me to progress further. With regard the comment about soldering to the rail, yes this was indeed another area of concern and I had been advised to use pre-wired fishplates - but some people then said these were not reliable enough. The next suggestion was to use the Hornby Powertracks R8206, these looked a good solution however the problem I have found here is the cost of the connectors to push into them - can anyone give any pointers on this for me regards Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 With regard the comment about soldering to the rail, yes this was indeed another area of concern and I had been advised to use pre-wired fishplates - but some people then said these were not reliable enough. I think they're fine. Like you, I find soldering tiresome and every attempt looks like a right dog's dinner. I do suspect that for every person that recommends using pre-wired fishplates, there will be a dozen people who yell "No... they're awful and will all fail at some point". You have to do what you think is right for you and falls within your skillset. Persoanlly, I'm pretty good at a few things and monumentally cr*p at loads of other things. Good luck with whatever you decide. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2015 Thanks one and all for the comments made - very helpful and should allow me to progress further. With regard the comment about soldering to the rail, yes this was indeed another area of concern and I had been advised to use pre-wired fishplates - but some people then said these were not reliable enough. The next suggestion was to use the Hornby Powertracks R8206, these looked a good solution however the problem I have found here is the cost of the connectors to push into them - can anyone give any pointers on this for me regards Andrew I haven't used those pre-wired fish plates, but the potential problem with them, is that they rely on the fishplates making contact with the adjacent rails. This is something that can easily fail, when & if you ballast the track and use a glue to set it. If glue gets into the fishplates, then there is a good chance that the glue will cause the sliding fit, to have an insulated film between rails & fishplate. Perhaps you could get a friend to solder for you? It should only need doing once. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2015 Wotsit, have you thought of horsetrading for some soldering for something you have or something you can do? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2015 I don't have a "bus wire with droppers connected" as per most DCC manuals, but instead on each board I use choc blocks to connect the "norths" together and to connect the "souths" together. Each board thus has a two terminal chock block connected to the track. I then run heavy cable between boards joining together all the chock blocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Steve14 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) I sell literally thousands of the scotchlok type suitcase connectors and apart from operator error, I have never received a complaint from a customer. By operator error I mean not using a pair of pliers press the connection in place. As others have said just make sure that you use the correct size connectors for the wires you are using. Its also a good idea to support the wiring under the baseboard correctly so no little hands can go under and grab wires. Edited November 17, 2015 by 14Steve14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2015 I sell literally thousands of the scotchlok type suitcase connectors and apart from operator error, I have never received a complaint from a customer. By operator error I mean not using a pair of pliers press the connection in place. As others have said just make sure that you use the correct size connectors for the wires you are using. Its also a good idea to support the wiring under the baseboard correctly so no little hands can go under and grab wires. Agreed, nothing wrong with Scotchloks. Best to use parallel jawed pliers though, as others can cause distortion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted September 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4, 2020 Came across these on FB and thought I'd post here rather than start a new topic. https://www.magoloft.com/products/universal-wire-connector-terminal-block-for-fast-wiring-10-pcs?variant=31985478533163 Interested in what folk think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 A Wago knock off ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted September 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 hour ago, rab said: Came across these on FB and thought I'd post here rather than start a new topic. https://www.magoloft.com/products/universal-wire-connector-terminal-block-for-fast-wiring-10-pcs?variant=31985478533163 Interested in what folk think I use these and they are very good indeed. I connect a wire to the bus via a Scotchlok connector, and use the 5-ways (mostly) to connect multiple bus wires. You can insert two bus wires into one socket with no problem, so long as they are the same size. Avoids all soldering underneath the baseboard and allows easy disconnection if the need for fault-finding arises. There are plenty of Ebay sellers for these Wago connectors so it's worth shopping around, especially if you need quite a few. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted September 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2020 I have used Screwfix earth blocks as a means of connecting my droppers to the BUS. The BUS wire is bared back, threaded through the block and screwed down to make a connection thus avoiding any break in the BUS wire. Located in the areas where I have several wires to attach, I can get in excess of a dozen droppers from each block which are then soldered to the underside of the track as required. A picture of the underside of a baseboard shows the yellow and orange wires feeding out of two earth blocks. I have over 20 of these on my layout and have not encoutered any problems. https://www.screwfix.com/p/4-way-earth-block/12386?tc=PA7&ds_kid=92700055281954475&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4o_D26DP6wIVWeN3Ch0KDA6yEAQYASABEgKhMvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) I usually use solder but I think you could use wire nuts without any problem. They are used extensively for mains wiring in the US and they make very reliable connections. Might be a bit hard to find in the UK? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-on_wire_connector Edited September 6, 2020 by AndyID Link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 20 hours ago, AndyID said: I usually use solder but I think you could use wire nuts without any problem. They are used extensively for mains wiring in the US and they make very reliable connections. Might be a bit hard to find in the UK? According to http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Electrical_connection#Wirenuts (which I trust) they have been illegal in the UK for mains wiring since the 1950s. They do some strange things over the pond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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