Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[EddieB]

17 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

I might be wrong (and apologies if so), but I think @EddieB had his tongue in his cheek slightly and was referring to the "all stations" Reading and Shenfield services which acquired 345s on their transfer to TfL Rail in preparation for Crossrail.  

 

I agree that they're nothing like the Electrostar 387s in terms of comfort or facilities (particularly the lack of facilities!). 

 

And yes, the Ealing Broadway change had occurred to me as well - I often catch the semi-fast 387 from Didcot into London as there's never any problem with seat availability, unlike some of the fast services...   But until full opening occurs, the hike to the Elizabeth Line from a terminating semi-fast arriving on Platform 14 at Paddington means the H&C/Circle is still a viable option to Faringdon and Liverpool Street. 

Indeed, yes.  Other suburban/country units are available...

 

I need to check, but I think there has been a timetable change - possibly for some time - that sees more 345 train services stopping at Acton Main Line and Hanwell.

 

The H&C and Circle are still favoured for connections between Paddington (or Liverpool Street) and Kings Cross, St Pancras, Euston and Victoria (among others), there being no interchanges between the Piccadilly or Victoria lines and Crossrail.

 

(I note the Freudian slip to a closed Great Western branch terminus - the interchange is at Farringdon with two r’s!).

Edited May 28, 2022 by EddieB

[3rd Rail Exile]

5 minutes ago, EddieB said:

(I note the Freudian slip to a closed Great Western branch terminus - the interchange is at Farringdon with two r’s!).

 

An unfortunate mistake - I paused, fully aware of the difference in spelling, thought deeply and then chose the wrong one!  Possibly because I've got to head out in that direction later...

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

 

 

I might be wrong (and apologies if so), but I think @EddieB had his tongue in his cheek slightly and was referring to the "all stations" Reading and Shenfield services which acquired 345s on their transfer to TfL Rail in preparation for Crossrail.  

 

I agree that they're nothing like the Electrostar 387s in terms of comfort or facilities (particularly the lack of facilities!). 

 

And yes, the Ealing Broadway change had occurred to me as well - I often catch the semi-fast 387 from Didcot into London as there's never any problem with seat availability, unlike some of the fast services...   But until full opening occurs, the hike to the Elizabeth Line from a terminating semi-fast arriving on Platform 14 at Paddington means the H&C/Circle is still a viable option to Faringdon and Liverpool Street. 

Platform 14 is a major trek to anywhere else around the station, including the H&C which is right next to it!   Last week I allowed 10 minutes for Circle Line Outer Rail to Platform 14 and it was fairly close call although arthritic knees do slow my walking pace a bit.  But it will be a bit better - some of the time - once the 345s go underground and the GWR trains can return to 11 and 12

 

Before the 345s arrived there were very few all stations trains from Reading to London and then only at odd times of 'day' (more like night time in fact).  at one time TfL were talking about limited stop Crossrail services in from Reading but that seems to have gone by the board for booked working - certainly for now - which has not helped journey times when a branch train connects into them rather than a GWR 387.

 

Talking about additional Liz Line station calls I understand that frequency at Acton Main Line has been increased to 6 trains per hour so presumably Hanwell is also getting the same? 

Edited May 28, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[DY444]

6 hours ago, EddieB said:

Indeed, yes.  Other suburban/country units are available...

 

I need to check, but I think there has been a timetable change - possibly for some time - that sees more 345 train services stopping at Acton Main Line and Hanwell.

 

The H&C and Circle are still favoured for connections between Paddington (or Liverpool Street) and Kings Cross, St Pancras, Euston and Victoria (among others), there being no interchanges between the Piccadilly or Victoria lines and Crossrail.

 

(I note the Freudian slip to a closed Great Western branch terminus - the interchange is at Farringdon with two r’s!).

 

I prefer SB Bakerloo and cross platform interchange at Oxford Circus onto the SB Victoria Line to get from Paddington to Victoria. 

 

I also wonder if Paddington to KX/StP will be quicker via the Liz Line and a change at Farringdon for those travelling from suburban stations west of Paddington once through running starts.  It might even be quicker now if your starting point is the lawn at Paddington 

Edited May 28, 2022 by DY444

[EddieB]

Went out again today on London’s new tourist attraction, deciding to check at the interchange at Liverpool Street on the way back.  It’s more Liverpool Street/Moorgate - somewhere deep down below Broadgate, I think.

 

I didn’t check the connection to Moorgate, but that could be useful for Great Northern services to stations missed by Thameslink (and the Hertford loop).

 

Changing at Liverpool Street to the Underground lines is quite a long way.  There appears to be only one lift, albeit quite capacious, which runs up and down beside the escalators like some kind of funicular.  Quite a queue building up, as the return trip takes a while - worth bearing in mind if you have large luggage, pushchairs or lack mobility.  I reckon that once Crossrail does run through Stratford it will save around 15-20 minutes to/from the eastern end of the Central Line.

 

I’m due to meet someone at Heathrow in a few weeks.  Now that the free period at the LHR long-stay car park is now just 30 minutes (had you realised?), public transport appears to be more practical - it looks like I’ll still be using the traditional Piccadilly - District - Central route as changing onto and off Crossrail isn’t as easy, even if it might save a few minutes.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by EddieB

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

I prefer SB Bakerloo and cross platform interchange at Oxford Circus onto the SB Victoria Line to get from Paddington to Victoria. 

 

I also wonder if Paddington to KX/StP will be quicker via the Liz Line and a change at Farringdon for those travelling from suburban stations west of Paddington once through running starts.  It might even be quicker now if your starting point is the lawn at Paddington 

One big factor using the Liz Line in the central area is going to be learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination  - even more important than in the past on the UndergrounD with the longer trains and station platforms used on this line.

[phil-b259]

5 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

One big factor using the Liz Line in the central area is going to be learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination  - even more important than in the past on the UndergrounD with the longer trains and station platforms used on this line.

According to my brother there are quite a few Apps for mobiles which will tell you where is best to stand on stations or which is the best carriage to ride in so as to minimise time / optimise connections between lines / be closest to the exit etc. on the Tube.

 

I imagine they will be adding the Elizebeth line asap… 

 

 

[Northmoor]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

One big factor using the Liz Line in the central area is going to be learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination  - even more important than in the past on the UndergrounD with the longer trains and station platforms used on this line.

I've always been fascinated how obsessive some commuters become about this to the extent of "cutting off their nose to spite their face".  Jubilee line to Canary Wharf is a particular example; seemingly everyone tried to be at the West End of the train because despite 3 (or 4?) sets of escalators at CW, the West End ones were nearer the exit.  It often resulted in them queueing to get on the 3rd or 4th train from Waterloo, whereas if they'd gone mid-platform, they'd be on the 1st or 2nd.

Likewise, the people who would crowd into the middle 4 carriages of my regular 12-car train home from Waterloo, because it was closest to the stairs at Surbiton.  There were so many seats free further forward, but I bet these people all moaned how they paid so much money for their season tickets and could never get a seat on the train......

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

I've always been fascinated how obsessive some commuters become about this to the extent of "cutting off their nose to spite their face".  Jubilee line to Canary Wharf is a particular example; seemingly everyone tried to be at the West End of the train because despite 3 (or 4?) sets of escalators at CW, the West End ones were nearer the exit.  It often resulted in them queueing to get on the 3rd or 4th train from Waterloo, whereas if they'd gone mid-platform, they'd be on the 1st or 2nd.

Likewise, the people who would crowd into the middle 4 carriages of my regular 12-car train home from Waterloo, because it was closest to the stairs at Surbiton.  There were so many seats free further forward, but I bet these people all moaned how they paid so much money for their season tickets and could never get a seat on the train......

 

I was the exception that proves the rule when I worked at Canary Wharf, my office was on Upper Bank St so I used the east exit at CW and so went for the front of EB trains!

Edited May 29, 2022 by DY444

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

One big factor using the Liz Line in the central area is going to be learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination  - even more important than in the past on the UndergrounD with the longer trains and station platforms used on this line.

Commuters learn that very quickly in my experience.  If they can't reach that spot before the next arrives, they tend to just board anywhere though. 

 

The ideal place usually depends on how big a crowd needs to get out of your way for you to get off the platform at the far end, but when I was commuting on the tube in rush hour it was often the case of whether you could even get onto the train at all, in which case you tried to get on wherever you could. 

 

At times I thought there was a very real risk that crowd pressure might force passengers off the platform face, and the pushing was inevitable when more and more people were forced to get off at the bottom of a  down escalator.  With alighting passengers pushing to get off whilst those boarding were fighting their way on, it must have been difficult to decide when station duties were complete and it was OK to close the doors.  The net result was that whenever one train was dangerously overloaded, its station stop was prolonged with the next one queueing behind it and another behind that, and it got worse at every susequent station, so they were as gregarious as Flanders & Swann's buses.  The problem was much worse with tube stock than with the more spacious surface stock.  The situation did improve a bit when staff started limiting the numbers allowed onto platforms until the numbers had been reduced, and the jostling irate punters were kept upstairs for a while.

 

So I do hope the new line will make life better over the whole tube network, as the basic problem was that demand has grown massively since the tunnels were first driven to the point that it exceeds workable capacity.  It's long overdue - the need for an additional and faster East-West line was identified and work had even commenced before WW2 forced cancellation, and there had been insufficient investment subsequently.

[keefer]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

It's long overdue - the need for an additional and faster East-West line was identified and work had even commenced before WW2 forced cancellation, and there had been insufficient investment subsequently.

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by keefer

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 28/05/2022 at 10:59, The Stationmaster said:

Platform 14 is a major trek to anywhere else around the station, including the H&C which is right next to it!  .........

 

I'm always puzzled when you repeat this Mike.

There's a link from the footbridge off platform 14, leading directly to the H&C entrance.

It takes all of 3 or 4 minutes from platform 1 to the H&C via the footbridge, so it must be slightly quicker from platform 14, surely?

 

 

.

[Paul.Uni]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

I'm always puzzled when you repeat this Mike.

There's a link from the footbridge off platform 14, leading directly to the H&C entrance.

It takes all of 3 or 4 minutes from platform 1 to the H&C via the footbridge, so it must be slightly quicker from platform 14, surely?

 

 

.

To get from Platform 14 to Platform 15&16 via the footbridge:

• Up the stairs
• Turn right, walk along the footbridge
• Walk though the ticket barrier above platform 8
• Turn left, walk along the footbridge parallel to the one you've just walked along
• Turn left, walk to LU (H&C) ticket hall (going past the blocked entrance to the footbridge)
• Through the LU ticket barriers, down the stairs or take the lift to platform 15&16

I wouldn't call that direct.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

To get from Platform 14 to Platform 15&16 via the footbridge:

• Up the stairs
• Turn right, walk along the footbridge
• Walk though the ticket barrier above platform 8
• Turn left, walk along the footbridge parallel to the one you've just walked along
• Turn left, walk to LU (H&C) ticket hall (going past the blocked entrance to the footbridge)
• Through the LU ticket barriers, down the stairs or take the lift to platform 15&16

I wouldn't call that direct.

 

Not direct as in almost a straight line, but it's the quickest connection from platform 14 to any LUL platforms.

Certainly a shorter distance to any tube platforms than say, to most of the tube platforms at Waterloo, which I consider to have reasonably good LUL connections.

 

I've arrived on platforms 1 to 4 and having found myself no more than one, two or three coach lengths away from the footbridge, have taken that route to the H&C and found it a cinch.

YMMV.

 

Stationmaster (Mike) makes a good point about taking a semi-fast to Ealing Broadway, before making a connection onto the Lizzie.

Once OOC is open, it would provide the same connection, not only from the semi-fasts, but from the fast trains too.

 

.

[billbedford]

11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

One big factor using the Liz Line in the central area is going to be learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination  - even more important than in the past on the UndergrounD with the longer trains and station platforms used on this line.

Unless you are travelling in the peaks, you'll be able to walk through the train to find exactly the right door for your exit. 

[Platform 1]

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

learning the right place to stand on your entraining platform ready for your alighting station/eventual destination

There are useful seating diagrams and a summary table here: https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2022/05/where-to-sit-on-crossrail-train.html

 

And to answer earlier questions about Cross-Liz-Purp interchange times, DG has a comprehensive set of lists.  DG also highlights missing validators at certain stations, meaning higher fares unless you're careful!

 

(No connection with DG, just a blog reader)

 

[adb968008]

Very short duration between stations, climb up to each station, followed by a decline on the other side.

 

Big open spaces, though it feels like it needs something to distract you. LHR T123 Hex platforms have similar vast long corridors underground.

 

 

view from the tunnel at speed… wot no driver..?

 

old taxi concourse at Paddington.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by adb968008

[EddieB]

In common with nearly all the Underground network, I don’t think there are toilet facilities within the new stations.  At Paddington, both ladies’ and gentlemen’s are conveniently located opposite (main line) platform 1.  The latter has a bonus in that the outer doors of the “man traps” are adorned with b&w images of steam locomotives - not a place to dwell, but in passing noting a Czech 4-8-2 and a South Australian 4-8-0, as well as more familiar domestic products (2744, namstocS gniylF is reversed).

 

My spies tell me that the female of the species isn’t so served.

[Michael Hodgson]

51 minutes ago, EddieB said:

In common with nearly all the Underground network, I don’t think there are toilet facilities within the new stations.  At Paddington, both ladies’ and gentlemen’s are conveniently located opposite (main line) platform 1.  The latter has a bonus in that the outer doors of the “man traps” are adorned with b&w images of steam locomotives - not a place to dwell, but in passing noting a Czech 4-8-2 and a South Australian 4-8-0, as well as more familiar domestic products (2744, namstocS gniylF is reversed).

 

My spies tell me that the female of the species isn’t so served.

In the interests of equality there should be a flying scotswoman too.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Over one million journeys on the new central section of the EL in the first week.

Even allowing for the first day and first week enthusiasts, plus all those who just went on it, just to see for themselves, a lot of ordinary Londoners are already taking to this new line.

 

If you add in the existing western and eastern surface sections of the route, which were also rebranded as the EL, as of last week, the complete EL network carried over 2 million people in the first week.

 

 

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/over-a-million-trips-on-the-elizabeth-line-in-its-first-week-55060/

 

 

 

.

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Not direct as in almost a straight line, but it's the quickest connection from platform 14 to any LUL platforms.

Certainly a shorter distance to any tube platforms than say, to most of the tube platforms at Waterloo, which I consider to have reasonably good LUL connections.

 

I've arrived on platforms 1 to 4 and having found myself no more than one, two or three coach lengths away from the footbridge, have taken that route to the H&C and found it a cinch.

YMMV.

 

Stationmaster (Mike) makes a good point about taking a semi-fast to Ealing Broadway, before making a connection onto the Lizzie.

Once OOC is open, it would provide the same connection, not only from the semi-fasts, but from the fast trains too.

 

.

The footbridge at Paddington is far and away the quickest route from any platform to/from the H&C (and the taxis if you aren't carrying heavy luggage) and again it's one of those things where regular commuters choose their position on main line trains to suit. that transfer.

 

My complaint about going from Platform 14 to/from the H&C is very simple - you used to go up the steps on 12/14, cross the width of two running lines and down the steps on 15/16 - under cover all the way so no need to worry if there was heavy rain or snow.  And that very quick interchange facility has now been replaced by the much longer, and very busy, route (because it also leads to the taxi pick-up/set down area) described by 'Paul Uni' - and it also takes you out into the open and is not too pleasant when it's raining heavily.

 

But yes, I agree, it is still by far and away the best connection to/from UndergrounD services  at Paddington.  And it now seems to be much more heavily used by those in the know following the dis-aggregation of the Circle Line with most Outer Rail trains terminating at Edgware Road which can often mean having to cross the footbridge there to get onto an H&C connecting(ish) train.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Has the opening of EL reduced the the numbers on the central?

 

 

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Over one million journeys on the new central section of the EL in the first week.

Even allowing for the first day and first week enthusiasts, plus all those who just went on it, just to see for themselves, a lot of ordinary Londoners are already taking to this new line.

 

If you add in the existing western and eastern surface sections of the route, which were also rebranded as the EL, as of last week, the complete EL network carried over 2 million people in the first week.

 

 

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/over-a-million-trips-on-the-elizabeth-line-in-its-first-week-55060/

 

 

 

.

I used it for a work trip to Bristol last week, out bound from Sutton is easy enough, TL to Farringdon and XR to Paddington, elapsed time exactly 1 hour.

 

Going back the other way, XR to Farringdon, just missed the TL, 30 min wait, + 50 mins.. your getting closer to Oystercard/PAYG time limits…

instead I went to LBG and SR to Sutton, but again your running closer to the clock with elapsed time… if the connections were late you could be running into ding’s.

Edited May 30, 2022 by adb968008

[Trog]

My niece was talking about using the Elizabeth line, and my brother said about how it would make getting to Heathrow easier as you could avoid the awkward tube trip to Paddington.

 

Which got me thinking as I believe that before that Brunel chappie decided to put his rails the wrong distance apart it was intended that the GWR would share Euston with the L&B. If the GWR and L&B had shared Euston would that have set a standard in the minds of railway directors with the later GNR and Midland etc thinking that the done thing is for all lines to a city or town to share a single station. With London perhaps ending up with two main stations a mega Euston and a super Waterloo for all the south of the river lines, if so would Harry Potter have travelled from Platform 39 3/4 in the ex GN part of Euston?

[Michael Hodgson]

All the main London stations were originally built on a rather different pattern to that now deemed necessary, and they had to be expanded a number of times as demand grew.  Even if they had built a "London Central Station", I doubt they would ever have found room for all the expansion on one site, so they would probably have ended up building satellite stations in remote places, for example in rural Paddington or Liverpool Street.