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PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

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Junctionmad

Junctionmad

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With such an apparent demand for 00 gauge bullhead track (which I find totally understandable), why haven't those already established in the marketplace for a long time (eg C&L and SMP) produced ready-made pointwork off the shelf?

 

Or is it too late for them now, with the arrival of PECO who will take a large % of the market I'm sure.

 

Just wondering.....

because of capital constraints.  injection moulding produces cheap parts , but has expensive tooling costs  

 

to take a large proportion of the market , they will need a comprehensive set of turnouts 

Edited by Junctionmad
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Adams442T

Adams442T

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With such an apparent demand for 00 gauge bullhead track (which I find totally understandable), why haven't those already established in the marketplace for a long time (eg C&L and SMP) produced ready-made pointwork off the shelf?

 

Or is it too late for them now, with the arrival of PECO who will take a large % of the market I'm sure.

 

Just wondering.....

 

I think that as relatively small firms the investment needed for a complete range of pointwork was always going to be a non-starter.  SMP had Marcway producing a standard range plus 'bespoke' pointwork to order; C&L have their own range of kits, though I suspect for both parties their main sales would not have been 00, but EM and to a lesser extent P4.

 

The Peco 'new' 00 will I'm sure be a success and I feel certain that pointwork is in the pipeline already.  Will it affect SMP and C&L?  I suppose it will, but perhaps for the reasons above not too greatly.

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coachmann

coachmann

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The announcement has certainly put the cat among the pigeons. Not just for track makers, but for those of a certain age who wonder how long they have to wait for turnouts. I mean do I lock-up the railway shed and take up deep sea diving or pillarbox hugging for a year and will that be long enough? I dont want some bloke in a white collar talking over my grave and slipping in a mention of a five foot radius double slip and new ready to fit buffer stops.....   :O

Edited by coachmann
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JohnR

JohnR

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With such an apparent demand for 00 gauge bullhead track (which I find totally understandable), why haven't those already established in the marketplace for a long time (eg C&L and SMP) produced ready-made pointwork off the shelf?

 

Or is it too late for them now, with the arrival of PECO who will take a large % of the market I'm sure.

 

Just wondering.....

 

I believe C&L have just announced some ready-to-lay point work, at a price of £108 a turnout. For those who were prepared to pay for this in any case, I suspect Peco was never going to be an option.

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Mallard60022

Mallard60022

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Did you spot the photo of a physical length of this track on the BRM Facebook page ?

 

ie not a cad drawing

 

Could be a test shot or a 3d print who knows ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/Britishrailwaymodellingmagazine/

Rob there has been a copy of that pic elsewhere on RMW since about 4pm yesterday but thanks for bringing it onto here where it illustrates that production must be imminent.

P

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Pacific231G

Pacific231G

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It was meant to be a joke David.

However, if as you say, there's a potential H0 market out there for this bullhead rail, then that is all to the good and hopefully might encourage Peco to press on with padding out the range with turnouts etc.

One lives in hope.

 

regards

Ron

 

Sorry Ron my humour chip was off-line (one day you really won't be able to distinguish me from a real boy) 

 

I'd guess that Peco will want to get some feedback to the flex track before finalising the designs (or possibly the advertising copy) for pointwork but I'd be amazed if they're not already very close to production. I'm no expert on mass produced model railway track (but Peco probably know more about it than anyone in the world) but its seems quite likely that setting up to produce the plain track is simply quicker than pointwork so they can get it to market earlier. I would also guess that for Peco making it rugged and reliable was a significant priority as that's what a lot of their reputation worldwide is based on.

 

The H0 market for this track will probably be very limited; France, but only for a minority, and some people elsewhere modelling French railways- quite possibly including me. There will also be a small market for people elsewhere, mostly in the English speaking world, modelling Britain's railways in OO.  Mostly though this will be a product for the British market.

 

I think this fits in with a number of other somewhat niche track products from Peco. At ExpoNG last year they had "mainline" H0e/009 track and also H0n3 (10.5mm) track and turnouts to NMRA standards which can't have an enormous market outside N. America. They've also fairly recently produced bi-bloc concrete track which is distinctly French. All this presumably shows that advances in their tooling set up makes it feasible to profitably produce a wider range of track products, so long of course as their dealers can afford to carry it.

Edited by Pacific231G
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gr.king

gr.king

Posted
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Did you spot the photo of a physical length of this track on the BRM Facebook page ?

 

ie not a cad drawing

 

Could be a test shot or a 3d print who knows ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/Britishrailwaymodellingmagazine/

 

I wonder if that is the only piece in captivity?

 

On the matter of it not being a CAD drawing, it is nice by virtue of it's "reality" to get some idea of what the track will really look like, although we won't of course know any dimensions definitely until either the actual product appears or Peco states categorically that published drawings are to scale. If the Peco art department has been stretching images to make them fit a particular space, or to give an "enhanced" effect, the figures scaled from their published images may not be right. The product as retailed may not exactly match pre-production examples either.

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mezzoman253

mezzoman253

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Did you spot the photo of a physical length of this track on the BRM Facebook page ?

 

ie not a cad drawing

 

Could be a test shot or a 3d print who knows ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/Britishrailwaymodellingmagazine/

If you click on the picture you get a bigger one  as in https://www.facebook.com/Britishrailwaymodellingmagazine/photos/ms.c.eJxFz9kRxDAIBcGMtriP~;BNbYWy93y4GJGYW7fCubNXsHy8ECUskC8AtiMwv8E4wYCfsASNKmwnpArh5hzLgnJUOJL5JAjahFzRq4DwVMDsiMdGzg0gBmwTgSaJf8Jy~;eBEDJmE1wCQWeUE2IcAm39mi~_b57FOBMVN8rB2ap3CtFvkkCNqE~;ZYdUtA~-~-.bps.a.1112394162126956.1073741851.185729314793450/1112396605460045/?type=3&theater

 

Rob

Edited by mezzoman253
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Coryton

Coryton

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I hope it will come in longer lengths than that!

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Derekstuart

Derekstuart

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The "chairs" do not seem to lift the rail off the sleepers, or if they do, it's not by very much.

 

I think that is how they are managing to keep it compatible with 'standard' flat bottom track.

 

That's a fairly sensible move considering their target market. As a bonus it won't interfere with the existing manufacturers either.

 

Winners all around. How often does that happen?

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martin_wynne

martin_wynne

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The "chairs" do not seem to lift the rail off the sleepers, or if they do, it's not by very much.

 

Hi Derek,

 

I don't know what is making you think that? Admittedly we have only a small-scale CAD image to go on, which may not match the finished track, but measuring in Templot I get these sizes:

 

post-1103-0-23705400-1454081478.png

 

The prototype chair base thickness is 1.3/4" which scales to 0.58mm. However chairs are sometimes located on a seating adzed into the sleeper surface, so the effective base thickness is a fraction less. If the Peco image is accurate, they seem to have got quite close.

 

I don't know how the above matches Peco code 75 flat-bottom -- anyone? The overall height to the rail top would be 3.92mm.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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Coryton

Coryton

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Maybe they are targeting the discerning buyer and making 45 & 60ft panels. :)

 

I did wonder...

 

The nearest length of bullhead rail to me is shorter than that. And consists of two different weights joined together. Code 75 and 100 maybe?

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Derekstuart

Derekstuart

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Thanks Martin

 

I was only looking at the photo of the sample in the cabinet and that is the way it appeared, though it might be an optical illusion. The link to the CAD drawings eluded me (I have found them now).

 

Is that CAD marked with a scale or has it been scaled from the assumed height of the rail?

Hi Derek,

 

I don't know what is making you think that? Admittedly we have only a small-scale CAD image to go on, which may not match the finished track, but measuring in Templot I get these sizes:

 

attachicon.gifpeco_chair.png

 

The prototype chair base thickness is 1.3/4" which scales to 0.58mm. However chairs are sometimes located on a seating adzed into the sleeper surface, so the effective base thickness is a fraction less. If the Peco image is accurate, they seem to have got quite close.

 

I don't know how the above matches Peco code 75 flat-bottom -- anyone? The overall height to the rail top would be 3.92mm.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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martin_wynne

martin_wynne

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Is that CAD marked with a scale or has it been scaled from the assumed height of the rail?

 

Hi Derek,

 

It is scaled from the marked track gauge:

 

post-1103-0-46556800-1454087506.png

 

It is a bitmap image, so we are limited on precision by the resampling effects.

 

It's important to bear in mind that the finished product may not match the published images.

 

edit: p.s. I didn't mark it on the screenshot, but the rail height in that view measures 1.91mm. Code 75 rail is 1.905mm.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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AndyID

AndyID

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Now that the cat is out the bag I suppose it's OK for me to post this.

 

The upper piece of track is the prototype Peco asked me to make. The lower track is SMP

 

post-25691-0-80591500-1454092681_thumb.jpg

 

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OK - this is obviously a pack of lies :) The upper piece is actually something I made a while ago but it's remarkably close to the dimensions I derived from Peco's CAD image. I took the shot from a distance of around five feet.

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.

 

Oh - I forgot to mention that my sample represents a prototype gauge of 1234 mm at 1:76.2 scale.

 

(Posting this from my underground bunker.)

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Mike Storey

Mike Storey

Posted
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Did you spot the photo of a physical length of this track on the BRM Facebook page ?

 

ie not a cad drawing

 

Could be a test shot or a 3d print who knows ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/Britishrailwaymodellingmagazine/

 

If it is anything like this for the production version, it is a huge advance on what we have now. I would only use it for sidings (although for the visible track, this will be nearly as much as for the main line), as the main line on my layout was flatbottom in reality, but the contrast will be noticeable and worthwhile.

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Junctionmad

Junctionmad

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If it is anything like this for the production version, it is a huge advance on what we have now. I would only use it for sidings (although for the visible track, this will be nearly as much as for the main line), as the main line on my layout was flatbottom in reality, but the contrast will be noticeable and worthwhile.

 

 

would you consider mixing PECO HO concrete track with new PECO  00 bullhead, surely the sleeper differences would draw unwarranted  attention , where it would be great would be to mix it with  say , Exactoscale concrete bases etc 

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Mike Storey

Mike Storey

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would you consider mixing PECO HO concrete track with new PECO  00 bullhead, surely the sleeper differences would draw unwarranted  attention , where it would be great would be to mix it with  say , Exactoscale concrete bases etc 

 

We seem to be paralleling threads here. As per the other thread answer, the difference between BH on sidings and FB on running lines is appropriate to the prototype, with their different sleeper spacings and old split sleepers compared to fairly new wooden or concrete ones. I do not advocate mixing them on the same running line, unless there is a visual break.

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Junctionmad

Junctionmad

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We seem to be paralleling threads here. As per the other thread answer, the difference between BH on sidings and FB on running lines is appropriate to the prototype, with their different sleeper spacings and old split sleepers compared to fairly new wooden or concrete ones. I do not advocate mixing them on the same running line, unless there is a visual break.

oops sorry about that .  

Edited by Junctionmad
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