Bachmann 2016 Announcements

[GordonC]

The sealink sets are hanging around with the collectors lib so I'm more surprised they're doing a separate coach as well.

 

But I'm quite happy about it too cause I'll have a rake!

[frobisher]

Ok having looked up the prices again it would look like it's closer to triple that quadruple so I stand corrected.

Quadruple would be a 300% price increase...

[tractor_37260]

24/1 still no progress after how long?

 

Surprised to see that the Sealink Mk1 is only one model.   If accompanied by a matching brake it would surely be a better sales prospect.  They did it for the members club I think, so why not general release?

 

 

24/1 - hopefully there will be an alternative soon..............SLW......................

 

As for the Sealink coach, a brake coach was part of the collectors club pack, so this will be a useful addition to form a rake - a pack of 2 with different numbers would have been even better !

[kiltedsignaller]

I am very pleased to note the appearance of Class 101 DTCL 'Hebridean' (No. 6300), paired with Mk 2 'Clan Fraser', in the catalogue. This 'observation car' was my office for four delightful summers in the early 1990s. I'm relieved that now I can abandon my long-delayed conversion of a suitable Hornby coach; the paint job had been filling me with dread. The only work required here will be on the interior and the creation of the 34 loose chairs.

Coupled with Bachmann's earlier quartet of Kyle Line Mk 2 Tourist stock, these new additions create a satisfactory full length rake.

Happy days...

[GordonC]

I am very pleased to note the appearance of Class 101 DTCL 'Hebridean' (No. 6300), paired with Mk 2 'Clan Fraser', in the catalogue. This 'observation car' was my office for four delightful summers in the early 1990s. I'm relieved that now I can abandon my long-delayed conversion of a suitable Hornby coach; the paint job had been filling me with dread. The only work required here will be on the interior and the creation of the 34 loose chairs.

Coupled with Bachmann's earlier quartet of Kyle Line Mk 2 Tourist stock, these new additions create a satisfactory full length rake.

Happy days...

 

I dont suppose you would have any photos of the interior layout of that coach? I'm sure there would be plenty of people here that would be interested in seeing them

[kiltedsignaller]

I do have a few, Gordon. I shall look them out when I get home. The driver's partition was removed (after a year) and it created three separate saloons, with the central doors bulkheads still in place. There were 12 chairs in the end section, a further 12 in the middle and then 10 at the gangway/toilet end.

[dibber25]

I am very pleased to note the appearance of Class 101 DTCL 'Hebridean' (No. 6300), paired with Mk 2 'Clan Fraser', in the catalogue. This 'observation car' was my office for four delightful summers in the early 1990s. I'm relieved that now I can abandon my long-delayed conversion of a suitable Hornby coach; the paint job had been filling me with dread. The only work required here will be on the interior and the creation of the 34 loose chairs.

Coupled with Bachmann's earlier quartet of Kyle Line Mk 2 Tourist stock, these new additions create a satisfactory full length rake.

Happy days...

Years ago I asked Hornby to do this with the ex-Lima Class 101 tooling as a special for Model Rail. You can guess what the answer was, as it was never done. (CJL)

[Colin_McLeod]

No?

[25901]

After the dropping of the NCB 04 shunter I'am surprised with the NCB 03 in black now listed

[Jenny Emily]

After the dropping of the NCB 04 shunter I'am surprised with the NCB 03 in black now listed

I think the 04 was dropped because the chassis hadn't been upgraded, rather than anything else. The 03 is an all-new chassis.

[Redford73]

Despite the fact I don't model NSE I'm quite impressed I second the above comments about Bachmann being brave for focusing on a niche (but largely overlooked) D&E market.

 

There is quite a bit I'll be going for.  Class 101 in Refurb livery FINALLY - Hornby let this one go and just kept on regurgitating the Strathclyde liveried 101.  Nice to see the passengers feature though I suspect this will mean increased prices and given I've never really bothered about passengers in stock traveling round my layout at speeds which don't lend themselves to noticing what's inside the carriage stock not sure I'll be buying loads.  

 

Some nice Scenecraft offerings as usual though still absent any yardlights which are scant on the rtr market.

 

For those holding out for Hornby to address D&E omissions I wouldn't hold your breath - it seems Hornby have al but abandoned D&E BR Blue and Green era and don't offer much in the way of more modern stuff - ditto the Skaledale range. 

[bart2day]

Maybe somebody could explain to me why waiting times for most Bachmann Branchline items is so long. In some cases models seem to take 4+ years from announcement to eventual release (new class 158 anyone?). This seems crazy especially considering in my limited experience Hornby seem to actually be releasing models in their 2016 range in 2016 itself.

What is the point on making announcements and allowing preorders on items when the product may only be delivered years down the line when personal excitement and fanfare over a model has long since dissipated. I cant imagine any other commercial product taking these time periods from announcement. Can anyone imagine walking into a well known department store and being told they will deliver your new sofa in 5 years or Apple announcing their new iPhones four years in advance for example.

Apologies for the rant but it does really frustrate me, especially considering the London Underground S stock model shows it can be done better.

[GordonC]

Maybe somebody could explain to me why waiting times for most Bachmann Branchline items is so long. In some cases models seem to take 4+ years from announcement to eventual release (new class 158 anyone?). This seems crazy especially considering in my limited experience Hornby seem to actually be releasing models in their 2016 range in 2016 itself.

 

What is the point on making announcements and allowing preorders on items when the product may only be delivered years down the line when personal excitement and fanfare over a model has long since dissipated. I cant imagine any other commercial product taking these time periods from announcement. Can anyone imagine walking into a well known department store and being told they will deliver your new sofa in 5 years or Apple announcing their new iPhones four years in advance for example.

 

Apologies for the rant but it does really frustrate me, especially considering the London Underground S stock model shows it can be done better.

 

it also raises the question of why bother featuring new models in catalogues for years if there's no realistic prospect of it appearing before the following years catalogue comes out

[newbryford]

Maybe somebody could explain to me why waiting times for most Bachmann Branchline items is so long. In some cases models seem to take 4+ years from announcement to eventual release (new class 158 anyone?). This seems crazy especially considering in my limited experience Hornby seem to actually be releasing models in their 2016 range in 2016 itself.

 

What is the point on making announcements and allowing preorders on items when the product may only be delivered years down the line when personal excitement and fanfare over a model has long since dissipated. I cant imagine any other commercial product taking these time periods from announcement. Can anyone imagine walking into a well known department store and being told they will deliver your new sofa in 5 years or Apple announcing their new iPhones four years in advance for example.

 

Apologies for the rant but it does really frustrate me, especially considering the London Underground S stock model shows it can be done better.

 

The S stock was a commission, with pretty much all the risk (and cost)  being taken by the LT Museum. Not quite the same as putting the money up front by Bachmann to develop new stuff.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[dibber25]

Maybe somebody could explain to me why waiting times for most Bachmann Branchline items is so long. In some cases models seem to take 4+ years from announcement to eventual release (new class 158 anyone?). This seems crazy especially considering in my limited experience Hornby seem to actually be releasing models in their 2016 range in 2016 itself.

 

What is the point on making announcements and allowing preorders on items when the product may only be delivered years down the line when personal excitement and fanfare over a model has long since dissipated. I cant imagine any other commercial product taking these time periods from announcement. Can anyone imagine walking into a well known department store and being told they will deliver your new sofa in 5 years or Apple announcing their new iPhones four years in advance for example.

 

Apologies for the rant but it does really frustrate me, especially considering the London Underground S stock model shows it can be done better.

It was, I understand, precisely because of the S stock and another commission job, that other items in the standard range were delayed. These two projects occupying an enormous amount of drawing office and tooling time. (CJL)

[Legend]

It was, I understand, precisely because of the S stock and another commission job, that other items in the standard range were delayed. These two projects occupying an enormous amount of drawing office and tooling time. (CJL)

You'd wonder why they took them on then. They know their capacity and so therefore they would be pushing out other items. These two projects in any case being numerically small in comparison to those that are still outstanding.

[D6975]

24/1 - hopefully there will be an alternative soon..............SLW......................

 

As for the Sealink coach, a brake coach was part of the collectors club pack, so this will be a useful addition to form a rake - a pack of 2 with different numbers would have been even better !

A bit pricey compared to Bachmann, but then again, their early 24 looks like a 24, and by the time the Bachmann one appears, who knows what the price will be and what cock-ups they'll manange to introduce?  Exactly my point though about the Sealink coach, attractive to those who have the pack to build up their rake, but not to anyone starting to build a rake from scratch.

[Colin_McLeod]

You'd wonder why they took them on then. They know their capacity and so therefore they would be pushing out other items. These two projects in any case being numerically small in comparison to those that are still outstanding.

I would suggest they went ahead as it would mean guaranteed profit for Bachmann. The speculative investment in making their own range can easily follow after. The nature of our hobby is that the delay will probably not mean reduced sales as we will still purchase when the items are eventually available

[Andy Hayter]

Maybe somebody could explain to me why waiting times for most Bachmann Branchline items is so long. In some cases models seem to take 4+ years from announcement to eventual release (new class 158 anyone?). This seems crazy especially considering in my limited experience Hornby seem to actually be releasing models in their 2016 range in 2016 itself.

 

What is the point on making announcements and allowing preorders on items when the product may only be delivered years down the line when personal excitement and fanfare over a model has long since dissipated. I cant imagine any other commercial product taking these time periods from announcement. Can anyone imagine walking into a well known department store and being told they will deliver your new sofa in 5 years or Apple announcing their new iPhones four years in advance for example.

 

Apologies for the rant but it does really frustrate me, especially considering the London Underground S stock model shows it can be done better.

 

 

There are2 schools of thought regarding announcements of new models.

 

School 1 says that once the manufacture of a model is deemed feasible and potentially profitable you announce your intention to make it (Bachmann approach).  Advantage:  A peg is staked in the ground and other potential manufacturers are less likely to also produce this model.  Disadvantage:  All the work still has to be done.  It will take several years to bring to market.  Once the details are known the model may end up much more expensive than customers have been led (rightly or wrongly) to believe, and if the market seems a bit quiet about your new model with pre-orders, you may need to withdraw it - and cause even more anger. 

 

School 2 says you only announce once a model is at an advanced state (Hornby strategy) - probably post tooling and in the extreme around the point of shipping (Hornby 2BIL, S Stock).  Advantage:  You deliver quickly to the market, What is in the catalogue might even be delivered that year.  Disadvantage:  Others may come in and also announce that they too have models - King Class, 73 Class, Adams Radial, Q6 ( and for continental models) USA 0-6-0 tank locomotives, BB 63000 (both duplicated by REE Models).  The market reacts badly to wasted duplication.

 

There is no right answer and both cause anguish and ire amongst modellers. 

[Colin_McLeod]

I like the Dapol/Rapido/Dave Jones approach where the announcement is made and then we are kept up to date with progress and where constructive comment is taken on board by the manufacturer.

[micklner]

I like the Dapol/Rapido/Dave Jones approach where the announcement is made and then we are kept up to date with progress and where constructive comment is taken on board by the manufacturer.

 

The only problem is as in the Q6, is that he gets beaten to the market and then loses money.

[The Stationmaster]

There are2 schools of thought regarding announcements of new models.

 

School 1 says that once the manufacture of a model is deemed feasible and potentially profitable you announce your intention to make it (Bachmann approach).  Advantage:  A peg is staked in the ground and other potential manufacturers are less likely to also produce this model.  Disadvantage:  All the work still has to be done.  It will take several years to bring to market.  Once the details are known the model may end up much more expensive than customers have been led (rightly or wrongly) to believe, and if the market seems a bit quiet about your new model with pre-orders, you may need to withdraw it - and cause even more anger. 

 

School 2 says you only announce once a model is at an advanced state (Hornby strategy) - probably post tooling and in the extreme around the point of shipping (Hornby 2BIL, S Stock).  Advantage:  You deliver quickly to the market, What is in the catalogue might even be delivered that year.  Disadvantage:  Others may come in and also announce that they too have models - King Class, 73 Class, Adams Radial, Q6 ( and for continental models) USA 0-6-0 tank locomotives, BB 63000 (both duplicated by REE Models).  The market reacts badly to wasted duplication.

 

There is no right answer and both cause anguish and ire amongst modellers. 

 

And there is another angle - perhaps increasingly useful to many - that School 1 does give you time to save up for it if it is something you can't do without.  The contrary situation with School 2 is that if it appears at short notice, and probably in no greater quantity than is the case with School 1, you might not get one if you haven't got the cash or credit available to do so immediately.

[Dunsignalling]

And there is another angle - perhaps increasingly useful to many - that School 1 does give you time to save up for it if it is something you can't do without.  The contrary situation with School 2 is that if it appears at short notice, and probably in no greater quantity than is the case with School 1, you might not get one if you haven't got the cash or credit available to do so immediately.

The answer to that is to keep setting a bit of cash aside even when there's nothing in the offing.

 

That way, there's hopefully a bit of a slush fund in place when it's needed, though will power is required to keep it back for items on the "really wanted" list.

 

The "nothing-in-the offing" carried on through several years of little-new-southern-stuff so I was very well prepared when Hornby re-awoke. 

 

I haven't spent it all (yet) and I might still have enough in hand for a "Beachy Head" without hitting the plastic when the time comes.

 

John

[jjb1970]

I think the manufacturers are in a Catch 22 situation, Bachmann are criticised for slow delivery, Hornby on the other hand are accused of copying others plans.

For all that in the case of Bachmann I do think that there is a sense of scepticism about what some of their announcements mean, is it literally a stake in the ground to claim rights on a subject and warn others off or is it an announcement that they really are planning to make something? Given the length of time some models have been in development it does seem that either they're just using announcements as real estate markers or alternatively that their project development process is woefully managed.

[The Stationmaster]

I think the manufacturers are in a Catch 22 situation, Bachmann are criticised for slow delivery, Hornby on the other hand are accused of copying others plans.

For all that in the case of Bachmann I do think that there is a sense of scepticism about what some of their announcements mean, is it literally a stake in the ground to claim rights on a subject and warn others off or is it an announcement that they really are planning to make something? Given the length of time some models have been in development it does seem that either they're just using announcements as real estate markers or alternatively that their project development process is woefully managed.

 

It's more complicated that that.  Don't forget that all development work has to be financed - the factories  want (usually) to be paid in stages, scanning work has to be paid for or you don't get it, research has to be paid for (sometimes), and so on.  Thus any project will require funds, apart from time, so it makes considerable sense for many people to announce before they start spending money and definitely before they spend big money on tooling.

 

As far as duplication is concerned the simple question is usually the most difficult to answer - who started first?   Some manufacturers have been known to spin yarns about how 'advanced' they are in order to put off the competition while others simply keep quiet and get on - whether they have announced a project or not.  The Q6 is a case in point - Hornby were strongly rumoured (via reliable sources) to be working on one long before DJM announced his intention to go for it. Equally, based on information emanating from elsewhere it was clear they were working on a revised and upgraded 'King' a couple of years before Hattons announcement caused them to announce where they had got to.  As regards who came first with the Class 71 electric or the Adams radial I haven't got a clue but at least 4 concerns were working on the latter, to varying extents, before it was announced by Oxford.

 

So yes - I'm sure there are stakes driven into the ground but where the financial risks are high I don't think anyone can be blamed for doing so especially in the present financial climate.  But equally I would lay good money that just about anyone, 'manufacturer' or commissioner, might still be capable of pulling the occasional rabbit out of the hat at fairly short notice.