Butler Henderson Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 In our case it appears that there is one rule for the council, one for elections and one for everyone else. Councils can display signs related to their statutory duties; in many cases it is a statutory requirement for a sign to be displayed and if they did not it would no doubt be hello to the ombudsman and a fine levied, which would be a bigger waste of the rates. Election signs are subject to same regs as those for exhibition signs I posted earlier, and reading the regs again apply to any location not just the building. Have edited my earlier posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Has anyone tried the trade advertising companies (Adshel, More OFeral, etc) for a rate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 One other thing I have noticed is that any sign, regardless of whether advert consent is needed, can only be displayed if it has "the permission of the owner of the site or any other person with an interest in the site entitled to grant permission". This would explain the role of the Local Highway Authority which may or may not be the same as the Local Planning Authority if you are in an area which has a District Council and a County Council. Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/schedule/2/made Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 The problem with "Innovative" ideas as mentioned above is they might be fine for advertising, but signage rules have rightfully developed over time to encompass a design and placing to best suit the driver, and anything that might be considered to stand out as being different might not be spotted as the driver won't be instinctively taking in the information from them. So if in doubt, stick to the local authorities regulations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 If you can park a car legally in an appropriate place, mount the sign on a roof rack and leave it there for the day. Sod all the council can do about it then. I understand that's a no-no as well. Our local council flagged it up cos' people were putting "For Sale" signs in their cars.... Not sure what the score is regarding men wearing sandwich board advert boards though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 Not sure what the score is regarding men wearing sandwich board advert boards though.... Only allowed by my local council if they've had a wash........... (The men that is, not the sandwich board) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 .... It's no great deal to remove them promptly. .... ....and if you're in the wrong area, the local louts will probably remove them without asking you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2016 Councils can display signs related to their statutory duties; in many cases it is a statutory requirement for a sign to be displayed and if they did not it would no doubt be hello to the ombudsman and a fine levied, which would be a bigger waste of the rates. Election signs are subject to same regs as those for exhibition signs I posted earlier, and reading the regs again apply to any location not just the building. Have edited my earlier posting. does that include adverts for council run road runners? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I understand that's a no-no as well. Our local council flagged it up cos' people were putting "For Sale" signs in their cars.... Not sure what the score is regarding men wearing sandwich board advert boards though.... There are some very different rules which apply specifically to for sale signs in parked cars that they may have fallen foul of. The same rules would not apply to model railway show signs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 It really is sad state of affairs when a local model railway club cannot advertise an exhibition without the local council trying get their greedy claws into it. I'm old enough to remember when councils used to encourage the activities of local groups / clubs as long as they were open to all who wished to join within the community. I think it used to be know as ' helping community spirit' but in today's power mad councils I get the feeling that they 'discourage' local people to have any spirit just in case the great unwashed rate payers gang up against the council ....... it's known as ' control of the population' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Its nothing to do with advertising, they are road signs to guide road users and therefore must follow signing regulations. £100 per sign is a bit steep though, there are other organisations AA, etc who should be able to do it cheaper; however, signing is at the discretion of the LHA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 We had one of those here in sleepy North Norfolk a while back. "Happy birthday Margaret! 50 today" it said. Better still was the one someone had hung up next to it which said "Nobody gives a sh*t". They both disappeared very soon after. My wife and I need 10 funny buttons!!.....this post absolutely cracked us up. Rgds..........Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Do we still need signs to exhibitions? If you're local, you already know where the venue is. If you aren't local, you've almost certainly got a sat-nav that will take you directly there if the exhibition organiser has bothered to put the postcode on the flyer/magazine advert. Is it so difficult for the individual to do their own research, with a paper map if necessary, to work out how to get to a model show? If you're of the "older generation" without internet and satnav then you will have spent many years planning holidays and following instructions using paper maps so it shouldn't be a problem to find a model show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Just say the signs are needed to attract people from diverse backgrounds in an attempt to improve community cohesion. Seriously. Without opening a can of worms debate, Railway Modellers tend to be from the same demographic type, and you could actually encourage more people to attend. Speak to the councils diversity officer who would probably be pleased to help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 It was always my understanding that the signs were to encourage anyone in the area (maybe daytrippers) that didn't already know about the show. "Hey, look Irene. Shall we go?"... If I was planning to attend a show, I certainly wouldn't rely on playing "spot the lamp post" for directions. I've long thought that signs, like phoneboxes, have had their day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2016 It was always my understanding that the signs were to encourage anyone in the area (maybe daytrippers) that didn't already know about the show. "Hey, look Irene. Shall we go?"... If I was planning to attend a show, I certainly wouldn't rely on playing "spot the lamp post" for directions. I've long thought that signs, like phoneboxes, have had their day. Which brings us back to the question, are the signs directional or advertising. If they are put there in the hope of drawing in the passing public they are advertising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 It was always my understanding that the signs were to encourage anyone in the area (maybe daytrippers) that didn't already know about the show. "Hey, look Irene. Shall we go?"... If I was planning to attend a show, I certainly wouldn't rely on playing "spot the lamp post" for directions. I've long thought that signs, like phoneboxes, have had their day. That may be the intention of the promotors, but the only legal basis on which temporary signs can be authorised within the public highway is that they are required to avoid driver uncertainty, and thereby improve road safety. That is why, in my personal opinion, the recent practice of allowing paid 'sponsorship' advertising on roundabouts is greatly undermining that basic message, and should never have been permitted. It's amazing how rules can be 'bent' at a time of local government cuts !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 That is why, in my personal opinion, the recent practice of allowing paid 'sponsorship' advertising on roundabouts is greatly undermining that basic message, and should never have been permitted.I think they came about through the right for Councils to display signs related to their statutory duties. If the sign is largely that with the advert less so then they probably concur, where they are an advert only they plainly do not accord. Anyone aggreived by them could always complain and if unhappy with the replies take the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman. does that include adverts for council run road runners?If you mean a marathon or similar I would think so unless it was a "statutory function" sign in which case there it cannot exceed 1.55 sq.m. nor be itself lit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm old enough to remember when councils used to encourage the activities of local groups / clubs as long as they were open to all who wished to join within the community. I think it used to be know as ' helping community spirit' but in today's power mad councils I get the feeling that they 'discourage' local people to have any spirit just in case the great unwashed rate payers gang up against the council ....... it's known as ' control of the population' Agree. In the 1970s when Ulster Model Railway Club held its exhibitions in the Fall Leisure Centre (which belonged to Belfast City Council) the Council did everything to help us including publicity and signage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If I was planning to attend a show, I certainly wouldn't rely on playing "spot the lamp post" for directions. I've long thought that signs, like phoneboxes, have had their day. And given many shows are in venues that are signposted the actual need comes down to that of least intelligent visitor to a show. Having read many visitors exhibition comments the number who have been to the show previously (in the same building with the same access) but had difficulty finding it this year is always puzzling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russianlayout Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Little known fact but travelling circuses dont need permission within so many hundred yards of the event, some ancient right. Simple solution is hire an elephant and a clown and have them stand in the school venue carpark of the model rail show and you can sign away with hundreds of boards. We found the hire rates at Hewetts are cheaper than Woburn for the basic hire package. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Little known fact but travelling circuses dont need permission within so many hundred yards of the event, some ancient right. Simple solution is hire an elephant and a clown and have them stand in the school venue carpark of the model rail show and you can sign away with hundreds of boards. We found the hire rates at Hewetts are cheaper than Woburn for the basic hire package. They are also exempt road tax for their vehicles under the ancient right as a show man ...... Mind you some might say that Councils in general are ' bit akin to circuses'' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 They are also exempt road tax for their vehicles under the ancient right as a show man ...... and can use articulated lorries with an additional trailer legally on the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 and can use articulated lorries with an additional trailer legally on the road. Your quite right on that point. It begs the question that when as a modeller taking a large layout to an exhibition one becomes a' show man' for the weekend so would one be able to tow TWO trailers with one vehicle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted March 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2016 Do we still need signs to exhibitions? If you're local, you already know where the venue is. If you aren't local, you've almost certainly got a sat-nav that will take you directly there if the exhibition organiser has bothered to put the postcode on the flyer/magazine advert. Is it so difficult for the individual to do their own research, with a paper map if necessary, to work out how to get to a model show? If you're of the "older generation" without internet and satnav then you will have spent many years planning holidays and following instructions using paper maps so it shouldn't be a problem to find a model show. Looking at a paper map whilst driving means having to stop to look at it, and signs are easier to follow than satnavs in my experience (and I wouldn't have a satnav if it wasn't built in to the car). In short signs aren't necessary but they are helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.