RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2017 Am I right to think that these Pullmans are 'new' - they are marketed as U type Pullmans by Hornby and on their website they have the rectangular toilet windows - like the 'Orion' preserved at Beer? I think all the ones produced by Hornby so far have the oval windows, happy to be corrected. All the best Godfrey From what Hornby has told me in email exchanges, they are not true U-Type Pullmans, but they are the K-Type Pullmans that were modified to resemble more closely the U-Type externally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroomy Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 A very knowledgeable guy on another forum posted this up to help me and others I am sure he will not mind me posting it on here to help someone In 1951 for the Festival of Britain a full set of new Pullman cars was introduced for this train. Also two of the new Britannia Pacifics were sent to the Southern Region to work it. (70004 William Shakespeare, and 70014 Iron Duke). 9 new Pullmans class U cars were built and were similar to the K class 1923 steel panelled wood framed cars with a trussed underframe, but ran on Gresley bogies, and had rectangular windows to the lavatory compartment. 7 of the older K cars were refurbished to act as strengthening and spares. These also had the lavatory window changed from oval to rectangular. GOLDEN ARROW CARS 1951 to 1972. Name, Type, Schedule number (also carried instead of name after painting blue & grey), Date electrically heated to work with HA locos (EH), Model made by. Aquila (U type First Kitchen) 305 EH 1961 Aries (U type First Kitchen) 304 EH 1961 Hornby Dublo 1960 Carina (U type First Kitchen) 307 EH 1961 307 Cygnus (U type First Parlour) 308 EH 1961 308 Hercules (U type First Parlour) 309 EH 1961 Isle of Thanet(converted K type First Brake Parlour, formerly "Princess Elizabeth") 247 EH 1961 Minerva (converted K type First Brake Parlour) 213 EH 1961 Hornby Train Pack 2017 Orion (U type First Kitchen) 306 EH 1961 306 Pegasus (U type Bar Car) 310 EH 1961 Perseus (U type First Parlour) 301 Phoenix (rebuilt to U specification after fire, on chassis of K type First Parlour "Rainbow") 302 EH 1961 Car No 34 (converted K type Second Parlour) 192 EH 1961 Hornby Train Pack 2017 Car No 35 (converted K type Second Parlour) 193 Car No 36 (converted K type Brake Second Parlour) 194 EH 1961 Hornby Train Pack 2017 Car No 208 (converted K type Brake Second Parlour, formerly First Parlour "Leona") EH 1961 Car No 303 (U type Second Kitchen) In June 1964 only Aquila, Carina, Isle of Thanet, Minerva, Orion & Phoenix allocated to GA In 1969 these surviving cars were painted blue & grey, and lost their names . The words Golden Arrow were painted on the sides, and the schedule numbers prefixed and suffixed S were applied. The Britannias were sent to the London Midland Region in 1958 and Bulleid Pacifics substituted until 1961 when the new HA electric locos took over. Its normal route was via Tonbridge. Between 1952 and 1960 the outward Golden Arrow arrived at Folkestone Harbour, and the carriages then transferred to Dover Marine for the return journey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Didn't they release it separately as well a few years ago. Big james Yes they did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Does anyone know what type of coach/van was at the end of the Golden Arrow rake in the late 50s/early 60s, please? The few photos I've seen that include the whole train just seem to show a dull smudge at the end of the train - some kind of Utility Van, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Does anyone know what type of coach/van was at the end of the Golden Arrow rake in the late 50s/early 60s, please? The few photos I've seen that include the whole train just seem to show a dull smudge at the end of the train - some kind of Utility Van, perhaps? When a van was used it would have been a 4-wheel CCT-type. However, it the steam era the 'Arrer' had its own containerised luggage system comprising a number of small containers on a low-side flat wagon. I believe it was unique to the Golden Arrow. After electrification, when BR Mk1s were included in the train, and later Mk2 firsts, the luggage van was usually a GUV. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 9, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Nice review in Hornby Magazine this month. Looks like a very nice pack. Edited February 9, 2017 by Hilux5972 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 When a van was used it would have been a 4-wheel CCT-type. However, it the steam era the 'Arrer' had its own containerised luggage system comprising a number of small containers on a low-side flat wagon. I believe it was unique to the Golden Arrow. After electrification, when BR Mk1s were included in the train, and later Mk2 firsts, the luggage van was usually a GUV. (CJL) BR Mk1s joined the Golden Arrow formation well before the end of steam era, when demand for Pullman tickets was declining rapidly in the late 1950s. The luggage arrangements varied continuously throughout the post-war history of the train. From converted Pullman Brake, to bogie utility van, to added 4-wheel van, to GUV, to GUV both ends, to GUV at one end and Mk1 luggage van at the other, and many other combinations - and that was just in steam days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2017 Have just received an email from Hornby saying this pack is now in stock. Typical it has to arrive when I have car repairs to make! Hopefully there is some left next month when I can actually afford it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 BR Mk1s joined the Golden Arrow formation well before the end of steam era, when demand for Pullman tickets was declining rapidly in the late 1950s. The luggage arrangements varied continuously throughout the post-war history of the train. From converted Pullman Brake, to bogie utility van, to added 4-wheel van, to GUV, to GUV both ends, to GUV at one end and Mk1 luggage van at the other, and many other combinations - and that was just in steam days! ....and the container flat, which seem to recall appears very nicely in a scene in the Tony Hancock movie 'The Rebel.' (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 ....and the container flat, which seem to recall appears very nicely in a scene in the Tony Hancock movie 'The Rebel.' (CJL) I have got a colour photograph showing an unidentified original Battle of Britain locomotive with a cycling lion emblem hauling a Mk1 maroon full brake BG in front of the Golden Arrow. Another photograph shows an R1 0-6-0T with two four wheel utility vans and the Golden Arrow Pullman Cars between Folkestone Junction and Folkestone Harbour. A painting by Eric Bottomley shows 34092 City of Wells hauling the Golden Arrow through Beckenham Junction. In his painting the train consists of what looks like a green eight wheel utility van, two crimson and cream Mk1s and a rake of Golden Arrow Pullman Cars. I hope that this helps people to produce some model Golden Arrow train formations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted March 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2017 ....and the container flat, which seem to recall appears very nicely in a scene in the Tony Hancock movie 'The Rebel.' (CJL) Marc Models are producing a kit of the Carriage Truck – Open (CTO) that were built for the GA More details on my blog here https://grahammuz.com/2016/01/22/something-slightly-different-golden-arrow-baggage-truck-test-build-from-marc-models/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 R3400 Arrived this morning! Looks superb. Erm, all the cars are Guards? Is that correct? I knew Minerva was but 34 and 36 are too! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Car 36 was/is a guard car! http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2230 Don't know about 34... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) R3400 Arrived this morning! Looks superb. Erm, all the cars are Guards? Is that correct? I knew Minerva was but 34 and 36 are too! Minerva and Car No.36 definitely had guard/brake facilities. Anthony Fords's Pullman Profile No.2 does not mention Car No.34 as having a brake; in fact with reference to the Golden Arrow, he mentions that of the two third class cars, 36 was always leading/trailing as it had a handbrake, while 34 was the inner car. Edited March 15, 2017 by MartinTrucks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Car 36 was/is a guard car! http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2230 Don't know about 34... Perfect - thanks Minerva and Car No.36 definitely had guard/brake facilities. Anthony Fords's Pullman Profile No.2 does not mention Car No.34 as having a brake; in fact with reference to the Golden Arrow, he mentions that of the two third class cars, 36 was always leading/trailing as it had a handbrake, while 34 was the inner car. Thanks. I'll review that volume tonight! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Dear All Does anybody know if 34088 213 Squadron hauled the Golden Arrow? Much as I like Appledore, I may add the GA insignia to a Battle of Brittan instead. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) Dear All Does anybody know if 34088 213 Squadron hauled the Golden Arrow? Much as I like Appledore, I may add the GA insignia to a Battle of Brittan instead. Thanks in advance. Yes. A quick google search "34088 golden arrow" found this http://www.germansteam.co.uk/1962/Bulleids/SE/Bulleids-SE.html (top left image and repeated larger further down). Also has a photo of 34100 on the last steam hauled GA. Edited March 15, 2017 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2017 Yes. A quick google search "34088 golden arrow" found this http://www.germansteam.co.uk/1962/Bulleids/SE/Bulleids-SE.html (top left image and repeated larger further down). Also has a photo of 34100 on the last steam hauled GA. I see Hornby's current rebuilt offering, 34077 '603 Squadron' also appears in that set of pictures. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2017 Looking at the photos kindly supplied by Miles73128 the Hornby rendition of the Pullman colours looks much improved to previous releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2017 Looking at the photos kindly supplied by Miles73128 the Hornby rendition of the Pullman colours looks much improved to previous releases. Interesting, as Hornby has previously always tried to ensure a match with earlier releases. All the curtains match as before though. Shame they didn't at least vary a few. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2017 Dear All Does anybody know if 34088 213 Squadron hauled the Golden Arrow? Much as I like Appledore, I may add the GA insignia to a Battle of Brittan instead. Thanks in advance. You could try doing what I once did way back.Write to the "Shedmaster " at 73A with your enquiry remembering to enclose S.A.E. for a reply.....which I duly received .That was however 1956 and the WC in question was then in airsmoothed state and it was an ordinary Victoria-Dover boat train ......34104 "Bere Alston". 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2017 Looking at the photos kindly supplied by Miles73128 the Hornby rendition of the Pullman colours looks much improved to previous releases. Photos can be very misleading. I can't imagine Hornby suddenly changing the colours for these 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted March 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2017 Looks as though Appledore's tender has the same problem as 603 Squadron's and it's a pain to try separate the tender and chassis. The screws come easy enough but the tender body resists movement. I've managed to get slivers of very thin plastic (from a supermarket ready meal tray) in between the bottom of the tender and top of the chassis sides but still the tender and chassis do not separate giving me the impression that there may some glue of something else across the front and/or back of the tender and chassis holding them together. Getting the tender off MN Royal Mail was a doddle. Pity the WC and MN were not made in the same factory that produced the MN (LOT01 for the MN and TEC05 for the WC). As my Appledore was bought from the Hornby website communication will be established with Hornby on Monday....... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Rails Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 All our stock arrived this morning. Its a great looking set. Take a look at our latest video showcasing the Golden Arrow Pack https://www.railsofsheffield.com/golden-arrow-last-steam-run-train-pack-limited-edition-r3400-Hornby-JJJA29924.aspx 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I'd love to be able to get one or more of the Pullman guard vehicles, but don't really need another WC/BoB loco, much as the Golden Arrow insignia appeal (I also have some etched brass fittings to add to any of my locos anyway). If Rails (or anyone else) split the sets, I'll be in like a shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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