Dapol Class 22

[Halvarras]

No idea about the hole (for communication cables when working Royal Trains? 🤔 Only kidding 😜!!) But I have both of those books and just noticed in the hardback that D6351 had collected a pair of former disc-headcode gangway doors* on its B end by the time it went for scrap.

 

I can't help thinking Dapol missed a trick by not including one of the three outshopped without yellow panels, as such a model wasn't possible with the previous releases. However the 22s seem to come from Dapol in batches of four and two disc headcode models were selected, so no doubt a plain green one will follow in due course. D6334 would be the best choice as it appears to have run in this condition for so long that it went straight from this into blue full yellow in 1967 - and it looks like D6333 did the same as no photos of either of these two in green with yellow panels have ever emerged. Curiously of course these were the last disc headcode and first headcode box locos.

 

*Without the discs (unlike 40127!) - I think D6351 would have been famous if they'd been retained!

[Halvarras]

PS Regarding plain green Class 22s it occurred to me that D6324 which ran in plain green with protruding headcode boxes for a couple of years (1962-3 estimated as most photos of it like this are undated) should be achievable via a plain green disc h/c model fitted with D600 Warship boxes obtained from Kernow as spares. I believe it has also occurred to someone else who has actually done this, possibly illustrated earlier in this thread. Of course modifying the lighting to illuminate the boxes would be a complication, if this is a consideration (it isn't for everyone......)

[Phil Bullock]

20 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

PS Regarding plain green Class 22s it occurred to me that D6324 which ran in plain green with protruding headcode boxes for a couple of years (1962-3 estimated as most photos of it like this are undated) should be achievable via a plain green disc h/c model fitted with D600 Warship boxes obtained from Kernow as spares. I believe it has also occurred to someone else who has actually done this, possibly illustrated earlier in this thread. Of course modifying the lighting to illuminate the boxes would be a complication, if this is a consideration (it isn't for everyone......)

@Downendian and I are both looking at D6324 …. GSYP for me

[Halvarras]

5 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

@Downendian and I are both looking at D6324 …. GSYP for me

 

That'll be the rather ugly and overly large SYP then Phil 😁! No matter, that is how it is meant to be, ugly or not - a feature it shared with D6302 of course, but then they were involved in the same derailment incident in January 1961 which led to them getting the headcode boxes around three years before any others did. Repairs at NBL took most of 1961 but D6302 received its large SYPs as early as August 1962 (it appears in the background of a photo of two brand new Hymeks at Swindon Works). D6324 ran in plain green for longer than that but for how long has been difficult to pin down......

 

Coincidentally I currently have headcode box Gsyp D6316 and Bsyp D6327 on the bench - just last night I renumbered them to D6315 (in which I once had a brief cab ride) and D6314, which like D6315 always hung around Truro a lot.....as did I back then😉! Strange that the blue one went for scrap two years before the green one but as you'll know your D6342 didn't last very long in Bfye either!

[Phil Bullock]

11 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

That'll be the rather ugly and overly large SYP then Phil 😁! No matter, that is how it is meant to be, ugly or not - a feature it shared with D6302 of course, but then they were involved in the same derailment incident in January 1961 which led to them getting the headcode boxes around three years before any others did. Repairs at NBL took most of 1961 but D6302 received its large SYPs as early as August 1962 (it appears in the background of a photo of two brand new Hymeks at Swindon Works). D6324 ran in plain green for longer than that but for how long has been difficult to pin down......

 

Coincidentally I currently have headcode box Gsyp D6316 and Bsyp D6327 on the bench - just last night I renumbered them to D6315 (in which I once had a brief cab ride) and D6314, which like D6315 always hung around Truro a lot.....as did I back then😉! Strange that the blue one went for scrap two years before the green one but as you'll know your D6342 didn't last very long in Bfye either!

Yes withdrawal patterns seemed erratic … a good few later batch locos went in the first hit. There’s a picture of D6324 on Flickr with me in it! 
 

D6324 Worcester open day

 

That furtive oik climbing in to the cab of the 03 in the shed is me. Of course by this time D6324 had standard headcode boxes. It’s a back burner modelling job at the moment …

[Halvarras]

9 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Yes withdrawal patterns seemed erratic … a good few later batch locos went in the first hit. There’s a picture of D6324 on Flickr with me in it! 
 

D6324 Worcester open day

 

That furtive oik climbing in to the cab of the 03 in the shed is me. Of course by this time D6324 had standard headcode boxes. It’s a back burner modelling job at the moment …

 

A friend took a photo of the 18-year-old me sitting in the cab of D6328 - my 41st and final Class 22 cop - on the Laira scrapline in September 1971. I've just looked to see if it has ever found its way into the 'web, can't see it but in the process I found this photo of Cashmore's scrapyard in 1969 - it wasn't D6353 which caught my eye, it was the remains of the loco on the left which should have been preserved due the tremendous effort and story behind its construction......

Still, off-topic and way too late now anyway!

[Downendian]

Indeed as Phil has mentioned, my progress on D6324 with the aforementioned D600 headcode boxes obtained from Kernow. We’ve had a few exchanges over the pig-ugly headcode boxes.

 

project stalled at the moment due to considerable house remodelling - new workshop located into a garden room.

Neil

 

 

[cctransuk]

13 minutes ago, Downendian said:

... the pig-ugly headcode boxes.

 

 

Ohh - don't be like that, I quite like 'em.

 

Losing the S(?)YP would help, though.

 

CJI.

[Halvarras]

40 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Indeed as Phil has mentioned, my progress on D6324 with the aforementioned D600 headcode boxes obtained from Kernow. We’ve had a few exchanges over the pig-ugly headcode boxes.

 

project stalled at the moment due to considerable house remodelling - new workshop located into a garden room.

Neil

 

 

 

Looking good that!

 

I did D6307 - another very common sight for me 1966-71 - in 1997-8 using the Hornby Class 29/A1 Models conversion method, but on a slightly stretched Lima South African electric loco chassis . The advantage of starting almost from scratch was the ability to produce whichever version you wanted to do. I also did D6322 in Bfye simultaneously. I still have them as they took 9 months to do - I didn't exactly follow the instructions! I'll post pics one day but here's not the place.......

[Gwiwer]

Just dropping in as I have to day had a chance to see for myself Dapol's rendition of both green and blu liveries on the current 22s.  

 

I am happy that they have, at last, got it right.  At the least both are very much better than all the previous releases.  

 

I sense a selective replacement program in the future; one-for-one replacement of a handful of my older ones with newer ones.  

[Pteremy]

I badgered Kernow for about 18 months to get the head code boxes released as spares so that I could attempt a D6324 conversion. I have still not decided how best to attempt it - the combination of bespoke lighting,  a 4 part door and e.g nose grilles that have not been plated over requires some mix and matching.

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, Pteremy said:

I badgered Kernow for about 18 months to get the head code boxes released as spares so that I could attempt a D6324 conversion. I have still not decided how best to attempt it - the combination of bespoke lighting,  a 4 part door and e.g nose grilles that have not been plated over requires some mix and matching.

 

Amongst the many deviations from the A1 instructions on my two was scribing in the end gangway doors. I also scribed in the extra vertical lines to divide the individual doors and inlaid thin plastic rod to represent the hinges, as well as short bits for the main door hinges. Turned out very well I think. But then these models required a full repaint anyway......

 

Just in case the suggestion helps.....

[Downendian]

7 hours ago, Pteremy said:

I badgered Kernow for about 18 months to get the head code boxes released as spares so that I could attempt a D6324 conversion. I have still not decided how best to attempt it - the combination of bespoke lighting,  a 4 part door and e.g nose grilles that have not been plated over requires some mix and matching.

The D600 boxes are exactly the same size as those used for the early D6300 conversions.

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/77703/K2600-84G-D600-Class-41-Warship-Diesel-headcode-box-surround

They’re £9.99 a set. Only issue with them is the headcode numerals need removing with T-cut and patience. They fit perfectly to disc headcode class 22 shells. I used precision labels headcodes. 

Neil

 

[Pteremy]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

Amongst the many deviations from the A1 instructions on my two was scribing in the end gangway doors. I also scribed in the extra vertical lines to divide the individual doors and inlaid thin plastic rod to represent the hinges, as well as short bits for the main door hinges. Turned out very well I think. But then these models required a full repaint anyway......

 

Just in case the suggestion helps.....

 

I bought a spare body to provide the doors as i didn't think that I could scribe with the required finesse, or make the small indents, to match the rest of the Dapol moulding. I also bought a non head code model as the basis for the conversion - but could not decide if the lighting runs would work correctly. Then I put things on hold to await the release of the later version, just in case that would provide a better basis for lighting.

 

Have you lit the head code boxes and if so what approach did you take??

[Halvarras]

9 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

 

Have you lit the head code boxes and if so what approach did you take??

 

No, these two Hornby-based 22s are part of a collection including Lima Westerns and 47s, Mainline Warship bodies on Lima chassis and Hornby Hymeks with Lima running gear. And an MTK D600 on Tri-ang EM2 bogies. All 1990s low-tech output with minimal internal wiring (that's after I doubled the amount of wiring.........by fitting extra pick-ups 😁!)

 

It's a good question though - @Downendian have you come up with a headcode box lighting solution for your D6324?

[Downendian]

Not got to the lights yet- bodywork first. I’ve had to fill a few light pips and will need patch painting when I get around to it.I have a spare chassis so may have the necessary LEDs for a headcode illumination but of course will need moving as the boxes are mounted higher.

Neil 

[Mallard60022]

Reading some of this interesting and informative thread has led me to purchasing the Warship Headcode Boxes from Kernow.

I now have a question. I have 2 of these very decent Loco's. 6311 and 6325, both  just plain Green, no 'End yellows' and they are 'Disc ready'. 

Did either of these have the H.C. Boxes in this condition?

If your answer is no, then another two questions!

For 11 and 25, what 'End yellows' did they have when they got the H.C Boxes, OR, what other members of the Class exactly like 11 and/or 25, might have had  plain Ends when receiving the H.C. Boxes, so I could consider a renumbering exercise to one of them. 

Otherwise, is there a site where I could look for myself?  

Just to say, I really only ever needed one of these, BUT I really like them and couldn't resist another as they are frequent and inexpensive items at Auction.

I'm also running 1958 to 1965 on my Southern Region, Seaton Junction Layout and these appeared in photo's from 1962/3 and possibly an occasional earlier date on Western Region Diversions.

Many thanks.

Phil

[Pteremy]

50 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Reading some of this interesting and informative thread has led me to purchasing the Warship Headcode Boxes from Kernow.

I now have a question. I have 2 of these very decent Loco's. 6311 and 6325, both  just plain Green, no 'End yellows' and they are 'Disc ready'. 

Did either of these have the H.C. Boxes in this condition?

If your answer is no, then another two questions!

For 11 and 25, what 'End yellows' did they have when they got the H.C Boxes, OR, what other members of the Class exactly like 11 and/or 25, might have had  plain Ends when receiving the H.C. Boxes, so I could consider a renumbering exercise to one of them. 

Otherwise, is there a site where I could look for myself?  

Just to say, I really only ever needed one of these, BUT I really like them and couldn't resist another as they are frequent and inexpensive items at Auction.

I'm also running 1958 to 1965 on my Southern Region, Seaton Junction Layout and these appeared in photo's from 1962/3 and possibly an occasional earlier date on Western Region Diversions.

Many thanks.

Phil

 

There is a book 'Class 22' by David Wilson which purports to be a 'definitive record'. But it isn't. My interest in D6324 arises from its use on the Taunton to Barnstaple line. It was photographed on the line in July 1965 with bolt on head code boxes but no yellow panel. Other photos suggest that it had been running in that condition since approx April 1962. But Wilson implies that the fitting of the bolt on head code boxes and the application of the SYP happened at the same time. 

 

So subject to that cautionary note if Wilson is otherwise correct about the fitting of bolt on head code boxes then D6306/07/17 and 26 seem to have been the other recipients in the D6306 to D6333 batch. (D6302 of the pilot batch also received them, but isn't represented by either the original or new Dapol tooling.) You would need to find photographic evidence of weather, like D6324, any of these 4 had the boxes fitted before the SYP.

[csiedmo]

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Reading some of this interesting and informative thread has led me to purchasing the Warship Headcode Boxes from Kernow.

I now have a question. I have 2 of these very decent Loco's. 6311 and 6325, both  just plain Green, no 'End yellows' and they are 'Disc ready'. 

Did either of these have the H.C. Boxes in this condition?

If your answer is no, then another two questions!

For 11 and 25, what 'End yellows' did they have when they got the H.C Boxes, OR, what other members of the Class exactly like 11 and/or 25, might have had  plain Ends when receiving the H.C. Boxes, so I could consider a renumbering exercise to one of them. 

Otherwise, is there a site where I could look for myself?  

Just to say, I really only ever needed one of these, BUT I really like them and couldn't resist another as they are frequent and inexpensive items at Auction.

I'm also running 1958 to 1965 on my Southern Region, Seaton Junction Layout and these appeared in photo's from 1962/3 and possibly an occasional earlier date on Western Region Diversions.

Many thanks.

Phil

 

Hello Phil,

D6311 would have been given full width yellow panels when it received its headcode boxes probably in ‘66. 
D6325 received its headcode boxes when it went BFYE in ‘67. 
As already mentioned D6324 was the only one of the D6306-D6333 batch to carry headcode boxes without yellow panels. 
As far as I can tell, the first of the flush boxes was fitted in ‘66. Prior to that they were of the bolt on type and Pteremy gives the complete list of those in his post above. 

Best wishes,

Ed

 

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, Pteremy said:

 

There is a book 'Class 22' by David Wilson which purports to be a 'definitive record'. But it isn't. My interest in D6324 arises from its use on the Taunton to Barnstaple line. It was photographed on the line in July 1965 with bolt on head code boxes but no yellow panel. Other photos suggest that it had been running in that condition since approx April 1962. But Wilson implies that the fitting of the bolt on head code boxes and the application of the SYP happened at the same time. 

 

So subject to that cautionary note if Wilson is otherwise correct about the fitting of bolt on head code boxes then D6306/07/17 and 26 seem to have been the other recipients in the D6306 to D6333 batch. (D6302 of the pilot batch also received them, but isn't represented by either the original or new Dapol tooling.) You would need to find photographic evidence of weather, like D6324, any of these 4 had the boxes fitted before the SYP.

 

And yet a photo of D6324 at Sidmouth Junction dated 24th July 1965 in J.K. Lewis's 'The Western's Hydraulics' shows it with grubby-looking oversized yellow panels - the same month it was allegedly photographed on the Taunton to Barnstaple line without them! As I mentioned in a previous post, there are a number of photos of this loco but too few of them are dated (one such at Exeter appears in the softback predecessor of the book you mention, which I agree was rather less accomplished than claimed) or dated accurately.

 

My personal opinion is that D6302/24 were fitted with the boxes first, during collision damage repairs in 1961, with D6302 collecting the large yellow panels by August 1962, and that no other such boxes were fitted until D602 'Bulldog' in December 1964, the first D6xx to get them. During the first few months of 1965, D6306/7/17/26 were fitted with these boxes (two photos in David Cable's album 'Hydraulics on the Western' support this for D6307 and D6317, another of the latter inside Swindon Works between March and July 1965) and by then it was clear from D6337-57 as delivered by NBL that the smaller yellow panel was the standard for these locos, regardless of the position of the boxes. Photos exist of all four with the smaller panel (although D6306 is a bit camera-shy), none with the larger panel. Subsequent headcode conversions were the flush type.

 

D6324 acquired its yellow panels before all this occurred in 1965 so copied D6302, the only other box-equipped loco existing at the time. But exactly when is difficult to pin down - MLI 197 on the NBL Type 2s has the N. Preedy photo of D6324 in plain green in Truro Yard in April 1962, and it appears again on the opposite page at Bodmin General ( "unidentified" but it can only be this one), undated (of course), still plain green but a bit grubbier and since the Truro shot it has gathered OHLE flashes but still no yellow. If I had to guess, due the number of pics with and without the yellow I'd have to go for a middling late 1963/early 1964.

 

As mentioned above D602 was the first D6xx to acquire the boxes in December 1964 and D600 the last in May 1967 - in other words it took two and a half years to modify the five locos. Something tells me Swindon didn't regard them as a priority!

[Phatbob]

D6317 with headcode boxes but no yellow panel.
HTH
https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p661346788/h5A80A63A#h5a80a63a

[Mallard60022]

Much appreciated Chaps. 6324 with plain ends and boxes in 1964 then is a possibility, if I read your really helpful posts correctly?

If it's not possible, I shall just sell them on.

All the best,

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I'll take this as confirmation of 6324.

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p661346788/h5A80A63A#h5745b755

[Pteremy]

11 hours ago, Halvarras said:

And yet a photo of D6324 at Sidmouth Junction dated 24th July 1965 in J.K. Lewis's 'The Western's Hydraulics' shows it with grubby-looking oversized yellow panels - the same month it was allegedly photographed on the Taunton to Barnstaple line without them!

 

Oh the joys of photo captions!

 

The main point supporting the 1965 date for the T-B photo (on p173 of v1 of the Huxtable Trilogy) is that although D63xx's were route tested over the line in (if i remember correctly) 1963 they were not used on scheduled passenger services until the summer timetable of 1965. Even then they were limited to the Saturday 'through' services to Ilfracombe. The photograph is by Owen Mogg, and there are several others of his from Summer 1965 in the same section of the book. It is taken at the western end of Milverton station where the track to the goods shed has clearly been lifted, something which happened in early summer 1964.

 

There is a slight anomaly in that the date is given as 30th July, which in 1965 was a Friday not a Saturday. But an mis-transcription of 31 to 30 is not impossible. It is also a very dark photo - I have tried looking at it through a magnifying glass to see whether there is evidence of a grimy SYP. Whilst I cannot see anything to suggest that there is a SYP present a better quality photo would help. Equally there is no evidence of anything resembling the apparent paint damage to the side shown in the Sidmouth photograph - but that may reflect the quality of the Sidmouth photograph rather than genuine damage.

 

At the risk of revealing my inner nerd my particular period of interest for summer services on the line is, rather specifically, the last week in June. i.e. just after the start of the summer timetable. So, if I had to, I might reconcile the issue by imagining that the SYP was applied in July 1965.

 

 

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, Phatbob said:

D6317 with headcode boxes but no yellow panel.
HTH
https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p661346788/h5A80A63A#h5a80a63a

 

No, sorry, the caption states that this must be D6317 because it was the only one with these headcode boxes. We know it wasn't. This is the photo I was referring to in MLI 197 as "unidentified", and there's no chance of reading the number. There's a photo of D6317 inside Swindon Works in ex-works condition with the boxes (it's sat behind a pair of Brush Type 4 bogies for those who know of it) and it was in the works from March to July 1965, according to the caption. 

Now it's possible that D6317 acquired the boxes before this visit but to remain in plain green this would have had to have been before yellow panels became mandatory - in other words around the time D6302/24 came back from repair - and run around for three years without being photographed. Possible I suppose, it was good at avoiding cameras, but I'd put money on the loco in this photo being D6324. Another question is, was D6317 allocated to Laira at the time? D6324 certainly was during its time in plain green as it was photographed on the Chacewater - Newquay line, as per @Mallard60022's above pic of it entering St Agnes station - the Cornwall Railway Society website has another. After receiving the yellow panels it appears to have moved to Newton Abbot - from my experience at the time Laira and Newton Abbot locos didn't mix and any which piloted trains over the Devon hills went straight back to their home depots.