Hornby announce the ex SECR / SR / BR(s) Wainwright H Class 0-4-4 tank as part of their 2017 range

[Wickham Green]

30 more days, although it depends where you are, the UK is +12, -1 but a day behind, I think. Depending on Daylight Saving.

 

Which it is.

 

Or is't...

 

If the sun is up when I roll out of bed and has already sunk below the horizon when I get home and have an evening to 'kill', I consider it to be Daylight WASTING, I'm afraid ............... contrary to popular opinion there ARE other things to do beyond railway modelling by artificial light !

[G-BOAF]

Not exactly BR condition if the model represents it in its current state ( which I guess IS the idea ) ..... don't forget that 263 started life as a flat-bunker loco and only received a flare in BR days - which it carried into its early Bluebell period : BUT this wasn't the 'standard' flare and sort of 'grew out of' the bunker side - as if someone had modified the existing plating with a big 'ammer ! [ Its current bunker top is a lot neater and nobody would know it wasn't original ......... except us ! ]

I see what you mean: http://www.germansteam.co.uk/1962/H/24-31263-Oxted.jpg

So is the flared bunker fitted today supposed to be a better representation of the original SECR flare arrangement?

 

And just to clarify, when I said BR condition, I means a BR condition H class as modelled by Hornby (or actually I was thinking 31518 without all the pull-push pipework and gubbins - it has the correct smokebox I think, as well as the cab front pipework)

 

EDITED - typos!!!

Edited March 1, 2018 by G-BOAF

[Wickham Green]

I see what you mean: http://www.germansteam.co.uk/1962/H/24-31263-Oxted.jpg

So is the flared bunker fitted today supposed to be a better reprasentation of the original SECR flare arrnagement?

 

And just to clarify, when I said BR condition, I means a BR condition H class as modelled by Hornby (or actually I was thinking 31518 without all the pull-push pipework and gubbins - it has the correct smokebox I think, as well as the cab front piepwork)

My understanding ( based entirely on in-depth guesswork and supposition ) is that the flared bunker fitted today is, indeed, supposed to be a better reprasentation - or representation ( that's better ! ) - of the original SECR flare arrnagement ................ though the original SECR flare arrnagement ( arrangement ? ) wasn't actually carried by that particular locomotive !

[G-BOAF]

My understanding ( based entirely on in-depth guesswork and supposition ) is that the flared bunker fitted today is, indeed, supposed to be a better reprasentation - or representation ( that's better ! ) - of the original SECR flare arrnagement ................ though the original SECR flare arrnagement ( arrangement ? ) wasn't actually carried by that particular locomotive !

That will teach me to always post messages into MS Word to check spelling!

It begs the question as to why the Bluebell didn't restore the flat bunker historically appropriate for 263? OK what they have done is created a 'classic' H Class outline, but one wonders if such a move were pursued today, what the letter pages of BN would say :-p

[JSpencer]

I wonder why the Bluebell put extra lining on the cab roof? I cannot find evidence of this being done in SECR days.

 

The photo of the club model prototype has neither the extra roof lining nor the bit of pipe work in  front of the cab on the left hand side (tooling does exist for this part as it is there on the push-pull BR version). The roof lining, I'm not bothered about but I wonder if they will add that bit of pipework too?

Edited March 1, 2018 by JSpencer

[Steamport Southport]

No mention of them in the latest "new arrivals" email so I would expect them in the next few weeks rather than days.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Cor-onGRT4]

No mention of them in the latest "new arrivals" email so I would expect them in the next few weeks rather than days.

 

 

 

 

Jason

GWR Grange class was announced for Februari and it just arrived yesterday on the edge of Februari, so March just begin, and this could also be possible for the March releases including H, it will arrive maybe just on the edge of the end of the month.

I'm also waiting for this SR H class,  and hopefully it will be landing sooner 

[ndg910]

This is not meant in the wrong way but the Grange had a March delivery date for months and a couple of weeks ago it changed to February although still not arrived at my shop of choice. Am thinking the ship arrived early or Hornby were being conservative with a March delivery when they knew it was close to being a late feb arrival. Either way it’s here and I’m waiting patiently for the H class. Most unusually for me I have preordered one as I think these will sell quickly. Many shops have already sold their pre order allocation. I’m hopeful for an early March arrival but can wait for later in the month as the P class is also due next week and will require input from wallet.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Replying to my comment on Facebook, Hornby reckon the SR H is still gonna be here this month =)

[Big James]

Finally found a BR version in stock so plucked up the courage and treated myself. This is for my Romney marsh one day layout.

 

Big james

[Black 5 Bear]

Finally found a BR version in stock so plucked up the courage and treated myself. This is for my Romney marsh one day layout.

Big james

Finally found a BR version in stock so plucked up the courage and treated myself. This is for my Romney

 

marsh one day layout.

Big james

You won't be disappointed, the late crest BR version is a lovely model. Enjoy !

[tender]

Could be an expensive month, Hornby H, Dapol B4 and Hattons P Classes all due to land in March.

[ndg910]

Tell me about it as also GWR Grange, 47xx and warflats due. Thankfully after that the year should be fairly quiet, just the LordNelson and Maunsell restaurant car.

[Wickham Green]

That will teach me to always post messages into MS Word to check spelling!

It begs the question as to why the Bluebell didn't restore the flat bunker historically appropriate for 263? OK what they have done is created a 'classic' H Class outline, but one wonders if such a move were pursued today, what the letter pages of BN would say :-p

Happened to be looking through 'The H Class Story' published by the H Class Trust in 1973 and noticed that 263 wasn't listed as a flat-bunker loco .......... did they actually not realise, at the time, that it should have been, perhaps ?

 

Looking through Bradley it seems that the first pull & push trials with the H class weren't until 1912 - which completely negates any suggestion that the flat bunker was to improve rearward visibility : the build dates are interesting : the first eight locos had flared bunkers and the next batch flat ............ which suggests to me that it was just a case of 'should we' or 'shouldn't we' before making a decision for the rest of the locos ..... these were, after all Wainwright's first tank loco class so there was no precedent to follow !

[JSpencer]

Happened to be looking through 'The H Class Story' published by the H Class Trust in 1973 and noticed that 263 wasn't listed as a flat-bunker loco .......... did they actually not realise, at the time, that it should have been, perhaps ?

 

Looking through Bradley it seems that the first pull & push trials with the H class weren't until 1912 - which completely negates any suggestion that the flat bunker was to improve rearward visibility : the build dates are interesting : the first eight locos had flared bunkers and the next batch flat ............ which suggests to me that it was just a case of 'should we' or 'shouldn't we' before making a decision for the rest of the locos ..... these were, after all Wainwright's first tank loco class so there was no precedent to follow !

 

In practice the flares probably help to avoid spilling some coal when loading the tender as well as being more ornate and prettier (in line with the livery). But naturally the flares would be a little more complex to build.

Running backwards with ease is the point of having large tank engines on passengers so visibility is probably more paramount when in normal mode than push-pull.

 

Finally the push pull gear in 1912 (generally not brilliant in operation) was completely different to that fitted BR days. 

 

Bluebell's role is preserve locos and not necessarily restore them to as they were. The H looks prettier in Wainwright livery with flares than without, conversely they had no need for the push pull gear which looks ugly on an engine in Wainwright colours. That livery though is a lit OTT having done the edges of the cab roof - rather like the extra lining on the SR livery for E4 - or even the hybrid LBSCR livery on the E4 which is two liveries merged into one - so clearly they are wanting the make the engines really pretty even if it means accepting some technical inaccuracies. FWIW both the H an E4 had an association with that stretch of railway before preservation days. 

[Wickham Green]

In practice the flares probably help to avoid spilling some coal when loading the tender as well as being more ornate and prettier (in line with the livery). But naturally the flares would be a little more complex to build.

Running backwards with ease is the point of having large tank engines on passengers so visibility is probably more paramount when in normal mode than push-pull.

 

Finally the push pull gear in 1912 (generally not brilliant in operation) was completely different to that fitted BR days. 

 

Bluebell's role is preserve locos and not necessarily restore them to as they were. The H looks prettier in Wainwright livery with flares than without, conversely they had no need for the push pull gear which looks ugly on an engine in Wainwright colours. That livery though is a lit OTT having done the edges of the cab roof - rather like the extra lining on the SR livery for E4 - or even the hybrid LBSCR livery on the E4 which is two liveries merged into one - so clearly they are wanting the make the engines really pretty even if it means accepting some technical inaccuracies. FWIW both the H an E4 had an association with that stretch of railway before preservation days. 

Indeed - out of seventy five E4s built, Birch Grove is one of the few which had an association with - the line which became known as - the Bluebell Railway even before she left Brighton Works for the first time ! ( a fortuitous purchase )

 

.......... but you're getting into a very grey area suggesting that the Bluebell - or 'preservation' movement as a whole - has no obligation to 'restore them as they were' : obviously there are some things that current rules 'n' regs will not permit ( rightly or wrongly ) - but what is 'preservation' if you're not 'preserving' what you can ? - maybe take "Mallard" out of the NRM, improve this bit, then that bit ad infinitum and you might end up with a class 91 electric !!?!

[Steamport Southport]

The NRM is a museum. The Bluebell is a railway.

 

If you want them to be historic items then stuffing and mounting is the only option I'm afraid. To me it stopped being "as it was" the first time they repaired or repainted it from BR condition.

 

I think the Bluebell was one of the first to stipulate they were a real railway rather than a museum as most of their locos were in their own liveries such as Bluebell in blue rather than painting it in SECR livery.

 

 

Jason

[G-BOAF]

The NRM is a museum. The Bluebell is a railway.

 

If you want them to be historic items then stuffing and mounting is the only option I'm afraid. To me it stopped being "as it was" the first time they repaired or repainted it from BR condition.

 

I think the Bluebell was one of the first to stipulate they were a real railway rather than a museum as most of their locos were in their own liveries such as Bluebell in blue rather than painting it in SECR livery.

 

 

Jason

correct, and we've had the Q Class fitted with a 4mt chimney - correct for some members of the class but not 541 I believe. However I was under the impression that where possible, efforts were usually made to restore to authentic conditions, performance or maintanance issues aside. Blackmoor Vale had her short deflectors restored (but speedo retained). But then again Fenchurch has been restored cosmetically as an A1, but mechanically remains an A1X...

[Oldddudders]

Them as pays the piper calls the tune. If an individual, group or society decide to paint their loco, coach or wagon sky-blue-pink that is their right. We may grind our teeth, but we are just observers, even if some enthusiasts display a response that looks well up the spectrum.....

[JSpencer]

Indeed - out of seventy five E4s built, Birch Grove is one of the few which had an association with - the line which became known as - the Bluebell Railway even before she left Brighton Works for the first time ! ( a fortuitous purchase )

 

.......... but you're getting into a very grey area suggesting that the Bluebell - or 'preservation' movement as a whole - has no obligation to 'restore them as they were' : obviously there are some things that current rules 'n' regs will not permit ( rightly or wrongly ) - but what is 'preservation' if you're not 'preserving' what you can ? - maybe take "Mallard" out of the NRM, improve this bit, then that bit ad infinitum and you might end up with a class 91 electric !!?!

They do do an excellent job but there are definitely little exceptions for practical reasons or publicity reasons. Most people visiting want to capture the spirit of times gone past and do very well replicating certain periods. The film Dunkirk captures the tension of Operation Dynamo but is not truly historically accurate but was probably the best that can be done on the budget, the same applies to any preservation movement, the best they can with the means at hand.

[Wickham Green]

Them as pays the piper calls the tune. If an individual, group or society decide to paint their loco, coach or wagon sky-blue-pink that is their right. We may grind our teeth, but we are just observers, even if some enthusiasts display a response that looks well up the spectrum.....

........... but if you DO choose to paint - whatever - a non-authentic shade of sky blue pink .... or rebuild it out of all recognition ( eg 'Tom Rolt' ) don't go round calling it 'preservation' - cos it ain't ! .................................. and I won't even mention that 'orrible word 'heritage' !

 

......... anyway, let's get back on topic and bemoan the fact that we're almost a week into March an' I still don't know when my 'H' is going to turn up !

[GreenGiraffe22]

I wonder if they're on the same ship as the Ps? 

[truffy]

........... but if you DO choose to paint - whatever - a non-authentic shade of sky blue pink .... or rebuild it out of all recognition ( eg 'Tom Rolt' ) don't go round calling it 'preservation' - cos it ain't !

 

As long as it's not scrapped or allowed to decay to rust, it's preserved. All else is a matter of 'historical accuracy', which may be nigh-on impossible to realistically achieve.

 

 

......... anyway, let's get back on topic and bemoan the fact that we're almost a week into March an' I still don't know when my 'H' is going to turn up !

 

Sorry about that!

Edited March 6, 2018 by truffy

[Wickham Green]

As long as it's not scrapped or allowed to decay to rust, it's preserved. All else is a matter of 'historical accuracy', which may be nigh-on impossible to realistically achieve.

 

 

.......... what did I say about grey area .................. ??!? .................................... clearly we're not all going to agree on this ........................................

[Wickham Green]

I wonder if they're on the same ship as the Ps? 

Just catching up on THAT thread ..... hmmmmm  -  a while yet then !