Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[Pete the Elaner]

29 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It would be agreeable if Hornby were to do a Heljan on the 87. Much of it is good. What it needs is a new chassis casting with room for a decent speaker and 21-pin decoder (as that seems to be what Hornby has decided upon at long last) and a rewire to allow the lights to work sensibly. A sprung metal pantograph capable of running along the wires and it would be a winner. Granted that most DC fans don’t need all that but even they would profit from switches to make the lights work properly. 

 

Hornby don't seem to be very keen on updating existing models.

They kept the 8-pin DCC standard for years. Thay have announced 21 pin for their class 91, so it should not bee too difficult to produce a board which will also work for the 87.

The speaker fitting is a joke. There is space marked for one but it is under the PCB & you would need to remove a cardan shaft to fit it. 

They seem to have gone backwards with their pantograph. They made a crude representation of an AMBR Faiveley in the 80s then an BW in the 90s, both of which were sprung & even carried current.

They have since produced 4 more BW pans, all progressively worse. The latest on the APT is flimsy, will not sit straight nor will it raise more than about 1/4 way.

I think a nice sprung pan from Hornby which will maintain contact with wires is optimistic at best. This is a shame because we have seen their competitors do it.

[47606odin]

Well, I have received my new Hornby 87. A lovely model, however, that pantograph, what a piece of crap. It looks great, but go anywhere near it, or waft a bit of air past it, it just falls off!

[greg81]

For anyone interested. Just picked up VT class 87019 from Monk Bar model shop in York for £114.99. Think they have another in stock.

[Ncarter2]

5 hours ago, greg81 said:

For anyone interested. Just picked up VT class 87019 from Monk Bar model shop in York for £114.99. Think they have another in stock.

All gone, grabbed the last one. 

[87027]

Morning all,

 

I’m currently looking to update 87035 to late 1980s condition to represent the very last 87s in BR blue, with that in mind does anyone know if any companies produce RCH TDM pads + stowage pockets? 
Also the second (and probably near impossible) bit is sourcing a BW HS pan, I know at one point Accurascale were talking about maybe releasing the 92 pan as a spare if enough people showed interest, did anything come of that? As a worst case I’ve got a Heljan 86404 to reminder and a spare SF pan to swap onto it but would rather not if I can help it!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

[97406]

On 17/04/2022 at 08:34, 87027 said:

Morning all,

 

I’m currently looking to update 87035 to late 1980s condition to represent the very last 87s in BR blue, with that in mind does anyone know if any companies produce RCH TDM pads + stowage pockets? 
Also the second (and probably near impossible) bit is sourcing a BW HS pan, I know at one point Accurascale were talking about maybe releasing the 92 pan as a spare if enough people showed interest, did anything come of that? As a worst case I’ve got a Heljan 86404 to reminder and a spare SF pan to swap onto it but would rather not if I can help it!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

 

Apparently Gaugemaster have spare Heljan BW pans on order. It is a sturdy example, though the spring needs weakening or replacing as it’s a bit too strong for OHLE. Some are a bit lob sided, but both of mine are OK. The very top section with the pan head will benefit from a blob of superglue to stop it from flopping.

 

I also tried a Hornby class 92 pan on one of my 87s, but the springing is not very good, so they have been removed and it is merely posable. The top section was curved, but they straighten out with the help of some boiling water. They are quite rare these days, but sometimes they turn up on Ebay.

Edited April 21, 2022 by 97406

[87027]

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

Apparently Gaugemaster have spare Heljan BW pans on order. It is a sturdy example, though the spring needs weakening or replacing as it’s a bit too strong for OHLE. Some are a bit lob sided, but both of mine are OK. The very top section with the pan head will benefit from a blob of superglue to stop it from flopping.

 

I also tried a Hornby class 92 pan on one of my 87s, but the springing is not very good, so they have been removed and it is merely posable. The top section was curved, but they straighten out with the help of some boiling water. They are quite rare these days, but sometimes they turn up on Ebay.

Thanks 97406, didn't know about the Heljan spares but I've just had a look on Gaugemaster's website and they're showing as available to pre-order. As I'm planning on pairing the 87 with a Heljan 86 them both having matching BW pans is a bonus!

 

[Patriot87003]

7 hours ago, 87027 said:

Thanks 97406, didn't know about the Heljan spares but I've just had a look on Gaugemaster's website and they're showing as available to pre-order. As I'm planning on pairing the 87 with a Heljan 86 them both having matching BW pans is a bonus!

 

Thanks 87027 and 97406 … the Gaugemaster site does show both types of Heljan Class 86 pantograph as spares with a pre-order price of £25 each. Hopefully the link below works …

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalogsearch/result/?manufacturer=205&q=pantograph

 

 

[97406]

1 hour ago, Patriot87003 said:

Thanks 87027 and 97406 … the Gaugemaster site does show both types of Heljan Class 86 pantograph as spares with a pre-order price of £25 each. Hopefully the link below works …

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalogsearch/result/?manufacturer=205&q=pantograph

 

 

 

Super. Will order meself 2 or 3. Thanks 😊 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

Thanks 87027 and 97406 … the Gaugemaster site does show both types of Heljan Class 86 pantograph as spares with a pre-order price of £25 each. Hopefully the link below works …

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalogsearch/result/?manufacturer=205&q=pantograph

 

 

Thats my 86/2 fleet upgraded.. thanks.

[47606odin]

9 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

Thanks 87027 and 97406 … the Gaugemaster site does show both types of Heljan Class 86 pantograph as spares with a pre-order price of £25 each. Hopefully the link below works …

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalogsearch/result/?manufacturer=205&q=pantograph

 

 

thanks, ordered 2 to upgrade mine

[97406]

3 hours ago, 47606odin said:

thanks, ordered 2 to upgrade mine

Me too. Both destined for 87s

 

[Elmeon]

Evening all,

 

I've just received my 87002 in CS livery and with a little bit of disappointment I'm learning that there are no cosmetic couplers included! 

Is it the norm with all the latest 87s by Hornby? If yes, what do you suggest to fit as a home remedy?

 

Thanks in advance

[TRAILRAGE]

On 21/04/2022 at 16:48, Patriot87003 said:

Thanks 87027 and 97406 … the Gaugemaster site does show both types of Heljan Class 86 pantograph as spares with a pre-order price of £25 each. Hopefully the link below works …

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalogsearch/result/?manufacturer=205&q=pantograph

 

 

Cheers for the heads up Patriot87003 . That'll be an order from me then.

 

Regards Trailrage

[TRAILRAGE]

Purchased a Hornby 87001 from Hattons last Month for £99. Mighty good looking Loco until I literally snapped the Pantograph removing the Packaging. Cannot be bothered with the Fuss of retuning as the same thing will most likely happen again. Not massively surprised  as I had read they were as strong as a new born kitten. There's something about this Loco that keeps drawing my eyes to it. The same thing happened when I got my First Bachmann 20. Again I think its just where I had become so accustom to the Lima Model that it made the new one look wrong!  But the more I look at it the better it gets. Its such a Lovely looking Model and runs superb. Its's just a shame that Hornby never put the same amount effort into the Pantograph. Never mind  I'm sure it will find use on the Roof of a coach for my NMT if I ever get round to building one! 

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by TRAILRAGE
Pics

[Pete the Elaner]

11 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said:

Purchased a Hornby 87001 from Hattons last Month for £99. Mighty good looking Loco until I literally snapped the Pantograph removing the Packaging. Cannot be bothered with the Fuss of retuning as the same thing will most likely happen again. Not massively surprised  as I had read they were as strong as a new born kitten. There's something about this Loco that keeps drawing my eyes to it. The same thing happened when I got my First Bachmann 20. Again I think its just where I had become so accustom to the Lima Model that it made the new one look wrong!  But the more I look at it the better it gets. Its such a Lovely looking Model and runs superb. Its's just a shame that Hornby never put the same amount effort into the Pantograph. Never mind  I'm sure it will find use on the Roof of a coach for my NMT if I ever get round to building one! 

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. It is a flimsy part of the model isn't it?

There are options though:

Heljan are releasing a BW pan as a spare part, available from Gaugemaster.

Accurascale will be releasing a class 92 & I've heard their BW pan is even better than Heljan's or Bachmann's. Fingers crossed theirs will be available as a spare too, although that is optimistic speculation on my part.

[Marcyg]

On 17/04/2022 at 08:34, 87027 said:

Morning all,

 

I’m currently looking to update 87035 to late 1980s condition to represent the very last 87s in BR blue, with that in mind does anyone know if any companies produce RCH TDM pads + stowage pockets? 
Also the second (and probably near impossible) bit is sourcing a BW HS pan, I know at one point Accurascale were talking about maybe releasing the 92 pan as a spare if enough people showed interest, did anything come of that? As a worst case I’ve got a Heljan 86404 to reminder and a spare SF pan to swap onto it but would rather not if I can help it!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

Not sure if this is a bit late, but if you have a facebook account, a chap called Jeremiah Bunyan on Model Rail Netwrok is 3D printing B-W and S-F pantographs for a very reasonable price. If you have Twitter, contact a lad called Shedley Yard, hes produced some ETH sockets and RCH TDM cables for me as per the class 86 and 87.

[scouse889]

So I succumbed and bought a discounted 87001.... I too found I couldn't resist for £99!

As others have said, I too always thought 87001 and 87002 were somewhat odd choices (IIRC they were in about the 2019/2020 catalogue?). 87001 didn't run any trains in the livery Hornby chose but I believe they could have modelled it in blue un-named, named Royal Scot on both sides, or named Stephenson on both sides, all of which were prototypical for operation and so would seem a more sensible choice at they would have enabled its use with the VT Mk3 rake and DVT that had been announced just the year before (to coincide with the release of 87019 in VT). Then with 87002, although the livery was current when it was announced, the lack of an announcement of suitable rolling stock to go with it seemed to limit its appeal.

So as it was, both locos were well down my wish list, and the evidence would appear to suggest that I am not alone in this assessment, as both appear to have failed to hit mass-market sales, given that they have been out of the catalogue for a few years (so presumably out of production), yet both are still available almost everywhere - at £206.99 MRP on the Hornby website but with much heavier discounts applied everywhere else, and I don't think Hattons would be selling 87001 for £99 if they could sell it at a meaningful rate for anything more! I picked up one a couple of weeks ago when there were sub-10 left. Shortly after that it was sold out, and has been ever since, suggesting that they were indeed selling off old stock and the loco is no longer in production. I decided, for £99, I can write an alternative history for the loco where it was dual named Royal Scot/Stephenson for the final few months operation with VT - a bit like GWR did with 43198 - and use it on my layout alongside 87019.

It seems somewhat ironic that suitable sleeper/day coaches for 87002 were announced in the 2021/2022 ranges and have literally only just this week started arriving (so, in fact, I may be tempted by a discounted 87002 in due course as well). I guess that first the colour match monster will rear its head once more... Does anyone have 87002 and one of the new sleepers (R40040/A) and can comment on the colour match, or post some pictures? I'm holding off on both until I see them together (been bitten by this particular monster too many times in the past)!!

[GordonC]

55 minutes ago, scouse889 said:

So I succumbed and bought a discounted 87001.... I too found I couldn't resist for £99!

As others have said, I too always thought 87001 and 87002 were somewhat odd choices (IIRC they were in about the 2019/2020 catalogue?). 87001 didn't run any trains in the livery Hornby chose but I believe they could have modelled it in blue un-named, named Royal Scot on both sides, or named Stephenson on both sides, all of which were prototypical for operation and so would seem a more sensible choice at they would have enabled its use with the VT Mk3 rake and DVT that had been announced just the year before (to coincide with the release of 87019 in VT). Then with 87002, although the livery was current when it was announced, the lack of an announcement of suitable rolling stock to go with it seemed to limit its appeal.

So as it was, both locos were well down my wish list, and the evidence would appear to suggest that I am not alone in this assessment, as both appear to have failed to hit mass-market sales, given that they have been out of the catalogue for a few years (so presumably out of production), yet both are still available almost everywhere - at £206.99 MRP on the Hornby website but with much heavier discounts applied everywhere else, and I don't think Hattons would be selling 87001 for £99 if they could sell it at a meaningful rate for anything more! I picked up one a couple of weeks ago when there were sub-10 left. Shortly after that it was sold out, and has been ever since, suggesting that they were indeed selling off old stock and the loco is no longer in production. I decided, for £99, I can write an alternative history for the loco where it was dual named Royal Scot/Stephenson for the final few months operation with VT - a bit like GWR did with 43198 - and use it on my layout alongside 87019.

It seems somewhat ironic that suitable sleeper/day coaches for 87002 were announced in the 2021/2022 ranges and have literally only just this week started arriving (so, in fact, I may be tempted by a discounted 87002 in due course as well). I guess that first the colour match monster will rear its head once more... Does anyone have 87002 and one of the new sleepers (R40040/A) and can comment on the colour match, or post some pictures? I'm holding off on both until I see them together (been bitten by this particular monster too many times in the past)!!

 

I cant say I'm surprised they ended up in the bargain bin either, I think that was probably pretty obvious when they were announced in the catalogue. Hornby seems to like producing current, but oddball locos while ignoring some pretty popular liveries. I also stocked up on cheap Class 87s for renumbering or repainting while they were getting sold off

[Legend]

6 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I cant say I'm surprised they ended up in the bargain bin either, I think that was probably pretty obvious when they were announced in the catalogue. Hornby seems to like producing current, but oddball locos while ignoring some pretty popular liveries. I also stocked up on cheap Class 87s for renumbering or repainting while they were getting sold off

 

Completely agree . I think Hornby could do with an advisor on "modern image" in much the same way as they tap into other people for Southern items etc .  They make far too many oddball liveries and not enough mainstream . I really think their penchant is steam and dont have much of a clue on modern image . 

[adb968008]

21 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I cant say I'm surprised they ended up in the bargain bin either, I think that was probably pretty obvious when they were announced in the catalogue. Hornby seems to like producing current, but oddball locos while ignoring some pretty popular liveries. I also stocked up on cheap Class 87s for renumbering or repainting while they were getting sold off

Imo Thats precisely what keeps biting Hornby…

 

odd balls first, save the best for later.. translates to maximising revenue from the tooling…

 

but..in a modellers mindset..

 

buying cheap models to repaint, means modellers are less interested in the better liveries as the price difference becomes exponential, and justifies buying the cheap ones even further…

 

of course then along comes a competitor, and eats your market starting with those desirable liveries from the outset… 31, 56, 142, 156.
I’d imagine a 50 and a 60 might be in someone elses focus too.

I don't get how Hornby's avoided doing most 21st century working preserved Black5’s, like 44806, 44871,45025, 45110, 45212, 45231, 45305, 45337, 45407…

 

only 44932 (1989 and 2011) , 45025 (Railroad 2018), 45379 (2016) (plus 44871 in 1968 condition)…

 

theyve always been like that.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by adb968008

[scouse889]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

I cant say I'm surprised they ended up in the bargain bin either, I think that was probably pretty obvious when they were announced in the catalogue. Hornby seems to like producing current, but oddball locos while ignoring some pretty popular liveries. I also stocked up on cheap Class 87s for renumbering or repainting while they were getting sold off

 

Totally agreed, especially when they keep talking about making the company more profitable but then produce odd models or model combinations: can I interest anyone in one of the 18 XC Mk3 SD vehicles, produced for a single set of power cars which require a rake of 7 coaches, now selling almost everywhere for as little as the £20 mark, and still not shifting? A brand new one sold on eBay the other day for £12.50 (excluding postage).

I think a big part of the problem is also this piecemeal approach - I think they need more joined-up thinking with their loco/coach/wagon ranges. Back to 87s, for instance, 87002 might have sold better if suitable rolling stock was announced at the same time to go with it (even if not in the new matching livery, they could have done debranded ex-First Scotrail sleepers/representations of day coaches). Also, why aren't there any blue/grey or Executive liveried Mk2/Mk3's to go with the forthcoming Executive 87, or even suitably numbered loco-hauled Swallows? That might have been better than the DRS Mk1 coach, or repeat runs of the single blue/grey and executive RBRs...

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

I cant say I'm surprised they ended up in the bargain bin either, I think that was probably pretty obvious when they were announced in the catalogue. Hornby seems to like producing current, but oddball locos while ignoring some pretty popular liveries. I also stocked up on cheap Class 87s for renumbering or repainting while they were getting sold off

Was it that oddball though? Isn’t it the version that is now in the NRM collection?

 

Thats why I bought it, it looked nice……..better than purple 😉

[Pete the Elaner]

2 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Was it that oddball though? Isn’t it the version that is now in the NRM collection?

 

Thats why I bought it, it looked nice……..better than purple 😉

AFAIK, it is indeed in its current NRM condition & likely to stay that way for some time.

 

Which purple? 87002 in its Porterbrook purple or are you referring to the rebuilt Bullied pacific in Platinum Jubilee purple which Hornby are re-producing?

[boxbrownie]

17 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

AFAIK, it is indeed in its current NRM condition & likely to stay that way for some time.

 

Which purple? 87002 in its Porterbrook purple or are you referring to the rebuilt Bullied pacific in Platinum Jubilee purple which Hornby are re-producing?

I like the Porterbrook, it’s just on the Bullied the purple looks awful……IMO of course.