Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[Steamport Southport]

46229? Please wash you mouth out sir!

It was de-streamlined in December 1947, so never ran for BR as a streamliner & probably did not re-emerge from Crewe until January 1948 so possibly never ran for LMS as a de-streamliner either 

 

It ran in LMS livery as a de streamlined locomotive in LMS 1946 lined black with LMS on the tender as 46229. Previously to that it carried 6229 (there was a photograph in Steam Railway in that condition).

 

 

Photo here.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127686-exclusive-duchess-of-hamilton-lms-coronation-no46229/

 

 

 

Jason

[Pete the Elaner]

It ran in LMS livery as a de streamlined locomotive in LMS 1946 lined black with LMS on the tender as 46229. Previously to that it carried 6229 (there was a photograph in Steam Railway in that condition).

 

 

Photo here.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127686-exclusive-duchess-of-hamilton-lms-coronation-no46229/

 

 

 

Jason

i did wonder if it carried 6229 for a short time as  BR loco.

Interesting that they did not bother to cover over LMS on the tender when it was renumbered.

[Brocp]

i did wonder if it carried 6229 for a short time as BR loco.

Interesting that they did not bother to cover over LMS on the tender when it was renumbered.

It certainly did run de-streamlined as 6229, there is a photo of her in the book "profile of the Duchesses" in post war black with her LMS number. Edited December 18, 2018 by Brocp

[toboldlygo]

i did wonder if it carried 6229 for a short time as  BR loco.

Interesting that they did not bother to cover over LMS on the tender when it was renumbered.

 

Just because a loco got renumbered after Nationalization, doesn't necessarily mean the tender got altered at the same time. I've come across many loco's that still had pre-nationalization branding well into the 50's (and in few cases the 60's)

[Ian Hargrave]

Just because a loco got renumbered after Nationalization, doesn't necessarily mean the tender got altered at the same time. I've come across many loco's that still had pre-nationalization branding well into the 50's (and in few cases the 60's)

And in the case of GW locos at least,buffer beam numerals and running plate shed stencilling...as in PPLRd.for Pontypool Road..Such anachronisms lasted into the 60’s.Probably still out there now...somewhere in the vicinity of 82C

 

Edit: and just a reminder that photography doesn’t tell the whole story.In the immediate post war years,film was scarce and available usually from a pharmacy only.Information on railway matters came from Trains Illustrated or Railway Magazine published monthly. One of the most respected of his genre,Norman Lockett,was.....a pharmacist.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Ian Hargrave

[robmcg]

Rob is saying he used the 46229 model - therefore latest version of what Hornby consider to be scale front wheels. Actually significantly too big but thats Hornby for you

 

I am guessing the larger wheels supplied with the older tooling models were a bit too large?  Was it supposed to be 3' 3" 9-spoke?

 

I haven't checked but suspect the larger front wheel alternative bogie has or had wheels identical to the many Duchess engines both old and new spec?  Which in all cases was very slightly over-sized wheels hence lack of front brakes on all these models?

 

Are the Comet aftermarket wheels available in LMS blue?

[MikeParkin65]

I am guessing the larger wheels supplied with the older tooling models were a bit too large?  Was it supposed to be 3' 3" 9-spoke?

 

I haven't checked but suspect the larger front wheel alternative bogie has or had wheels identical to the many Duchess engines both old and new spec?  Which in all cases was very slightly over-sized wheels hence lack of front brakes on all these models?

 

Are the Comet aftermarket wheels available in LMS blue?

 

Coachman ably demonstrated the improvement and wheel spec here:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117259-Hornby-princess-coronation-class-duchess/?view=findpost&p=2919969

 

Quoted as 3’ rather than 3’3’’

 

Alan Gibson is the supplier. They come in black with a polished tyre so would need painting.

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget you need the Stanier ones which are :-

 

4836ST 3' 0" 12.0mm. 9 spoke Bevel

 

 

 

 

Jason

[robmcg]

Here are the Gibsons on 46256 by Gibson as per Coachmann's post

 

 

Gibson G4836ST  for some reason Larry didn't get the far wheels on the track.

 

here below the optional larger wheels supplied with the older tooling model...

 

 

and here the current offering as supplied, not sure if larger wheels are supplied.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by robmcg

[robmcg]

For what it's worth I checked out 3' bevel rim wheels from both Gibson and Markits, the latter being

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wheels/markits-3ft0in-9-spoke-bevel-rim-bogie-wheels-lmsbr-wh30/

 

but it is UKP20 to post four wheels 2 axles ((UKP9) to NZ so I thought I'd wait and see whether the new model comes with optional front bogie and wheels.

 

typo edit

Edited December 18, 2018 by robmcg

[Widnes Model Centre]

Hi Rob,

 

There are front bogies and wheels in the detail pack.

[robmcg]

Hi Rob,

 

There are front bogies and wheels in the detail pack.

 

Thanks. That is very much appreciated!   Cheers.

 

 

I just did this from Hattons's pic. Darkened wheels a tad, enlarged the front wheel slightly as well. Otherwise as it is for sale. oh, added brake hose etc.

 

The engine has real presence, in my opinion, prototype and model.

 

Best to all.

Edited December 18, 2018 by robmcg

[nerron]

but it is UKP20 to post four wheels 2 axles ((UKP9) to NZ so I thought I'd wait and see whether the new model comes with optional front bogie and wheels.

 

typo edit

This is a standard pro-forma charge at the point of order. Andrew refunds the difference between this and the actual cost when the order is sent.

[robmcg]

This is a standard pro-forma charge at the point of order. Andrew refunds the difference between this and the actual cost when the order is sent.

 

Thank you. Perhaps I didn't read some small print, If so I apologise for giving the wrong impression.

[Pete the Elaner]

I've just noticed the new one has a single chimney.

According to my notes, 24 was the first of the blue batch to get a double in May 1940.

I had assumed that they started to get really filthy once the war started but was this actually the case? Was lack of cleaning a gradual thing?

[Brocp]

6221 was actually painted Crimson Lake with Gold stripes in either 40 or 41, so it may have not even run with a double chimney in blue (as i don't have my books near me i cannot 100% confirm that)

 

Regarding cleaning, I've seen photos with them in 38 and 39 quite grubby, nothing like the war, but still dirty enough thst you'd be surprised they'd be hauling crack expresses.

[Pete the Elaner]

IF my notes are correct: I made them from different sources.

 

6221 got a double chimney in November 1940 then was painted red in March 1941. It was the only one of the initial batch to carry the red livery.

6224 was the first of these 5 to receive wartime black in Feb '44.

6222 & 6224 were the last of the initial batch to receive wartime black. 6221 had even got it before these 2 even though it had already been painted red in the mean time.

 

6220 was the only streamliner to be painted wartime black while it still had a single chimney, receiving black in March 44 then getting its double chimney in December that year, the last member of the entire class to be modified.

6220 was also disguised as 6229 Duchess of Hamilton in blue between Feb 1939 & March 1943. 6229 carrying 6220 Coronation in red with single chimney during this time although this was for the tour of the USA. I am not sure if it ever ran in the UK like this. I would not be surprised if it did for a short time.

6240 was the last streamliner to carry red. From Jan 45 until October of that year it was the only one, then it finally received plain black like the rest of the class.

6223 was the first of these to be de-streamlined, in April 1946 along with 6235. These were painted in plain black but only for a short time. All other de-streamliners were painted straight into 1946 black except 6243 which was not de-streamlined until 1949, so it would probably have got a BR livery of some kind.

[robmcg]

Nice to know that if I painted a de-streamlined engine in black I could choose 6223 or 6235.  Pity they are both semis.   Only 6231 of the 'proper' engines wore unlined black and that was about a year 9/1945-46.   sourrce Irwell 'Book of..'

 

I could be wrong of course. 

[Legend]

I see Sams trains has just done a review . Looks a very nice model . Could be in the market for a blue one , although I’m not really sure the price £179 justifies buying new over maybe a second hand 2001 model @ £80-£100. Already signed up for 2 J36s but it does look very nice .

[Pete the Elaner]

Nice to know that if I painted a de-streamlined engine in black I could choose 6223 or 6235.  Pity they are both semis.   Only 6231 of the 'proper' engines wore unlined black and that was about a year 9/1945-46.   sourrce Irwell 'Book of..'

 

I could be wrong of course. 

By 'proper', do you just mean the 1st 5 un-streamlined ones? 6231 got smoke deflectors after black paint so you could model it with or without these. It got its double chimney before going black. 6233 went from red straight to 1946 lined black. 6230 & 6232 remained in red during LMS ownership, which is where my records stop.

6234 went from red to an experimental blue.

6249-6252 were initially ordered as streamliners but this was changed after the tenders were built. They therefore appeared from new as un-streamlined in plain black with double chimney, curved front running plate, no deflectors & streamlined tenders. My records for these are a bit sketchy but 6249 appeared to get a normal tender before deflectors. 6252 appeared to get deflectors while still with its streamlined tender, both while remaining in plain black.

6253-55 appeared later, carrying 1946 black, deflectors, double chimney, split front running plate & standard tender from new.

[Brocp]

IF my notes are correct: I made them from different sources.

 

6221 got a double chimney in November 1940 then was painted red in March 1941. It was the only one of the initial batch to carry the red livery.

6224 was the first of these 5 to receive wartime black in Feb '44.

6222 & 6224 were the last of the initial batch to receive wartime black. 6221 had even got it before these 2 even though it had already been painted red in the mean time.

 

6220 was the only streamliner to be painted wartime black while it still had a single chimney, receiving black in March 44 then getting its double chimney in December that year, the last member of the entire class to be modified.

6220 was also disguised as 6229 Duchess of Hamilton in blue between Feb 1939 & March 1943. 6229 carrying 6220 Coronation in red with single chimney during this time although this was for the tour of the USA. I am not sure if it ever ran in the UK like this. I would not be surprised if it did for a short time.

6240 was the last streamliner to carry red. From Jan 45 until October of that year it was the only one, then it finally received plain black like the rest of the class.

6223 was the first of these to be de-streamlined, in April 1946 along with 6235. These were painted in plain black but only for a short time. All other de-streamliners were painted straight into 1946 black except 6243 which was not de-streamlined until 1949, so it would probably have got a BR livery of some kind.

That's not entirely correct, Queen Elizabeth was destreamlined and painted wartime black which it kept possibly in to BR ownership. There are a few photos of her backing this up.

[robmcg]

I see Sams trains has just done a review . Looks a very nice model . Could be in the market for a blue one , although I’m not really sure the price £179 justifies buying new over maybe a second hand 2001 model @ £80-£100. Already signed up for 2 J36s but it does look very nice .

 

I looked at the video and it's a nice model.

 

If anyone is in doubt I have bought one but yet to receive it here in NZ so concocted this below with what I have edited-in the slightly more realistic supplied larger front wheels and toned down the white paint on wheels generally, as I intend to do with my model.

 

Impatient as always, but I suspect this is one of those models which will look gorgeous 'in the flesh' so to speak. It was made from three still pics in the video, thankyou Sam!

 

 

Picture is edited, will remove if it offends.

 

I'm sure Stanier was a genius.    Who is this Gresley fellow anyway?

Edited December 20, 2018 by robmcg

[melmerby]

I'm sure Stanier was a genius. 

He had learnt at a proper loco works - Swindon!

 

Keith

Edited December 21, 2018 by melmerby

[Crewlisle]

He was learnt at a proper loco works - Swindon!

 

Keith

 

Furthermore, he was the best thing to come out of Swindon!

 

Peter

[sandwich station]

He was learnt at a proper loco works - Swindon!

 

Keith

 

And moved on to bigger and better things.