RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2017 Go for it Lewis ! 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Oh pants! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2017 Interesting start. Going OT with Brisca. Smithy deliberately fencing Tony Neal at Wycliffe. Breaking the fence. The one and only time I ever saw it broken. Belle Vue when Willie Harrison won the world champ. The fastest race on shale I'd ever seen. My brother used to race and I was one of his mechanics. I took part I the end of season mech race at Aycliffe. Exciting and exceedingly uncomfortable. Now his son races with his same number 238. Cheers Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Well, he did it. Maybe not in the most satisfactory way but...he's still the champion. Respect to Max for the win. Makes the next two races a bit superfluous though. steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted October 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2017 Well, he did it. Maybe not in the most satisfactory way but...he's still the champion. Respect to Max for the win. Makes the next two races a bit superfluous though. steve Unless you're Valtteri Bottas and desperately want to finish second in the championship....................... Cheers, Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Unless you're Valtteri Bottas and desperately want to finish second in the championship....................... Cheers, Mick Or indeed any of the lower teams competing for prize money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hearing one of the drivers complaining that a driver he was overtaking had pushed him off the circuit, when he himself had collided with two drivers in the first three corners was definitely a case of the Vettel calling the pot black.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Great Race and result, and a wonderful win by Max, and respect to Seb on a great fight 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 There is already a racing formula with zero aero dynamics, otherwise known as truck racing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 In other news... Quite likely that the virtual safety car robbed Ocon of his first podium finish - which would have been well deserved for the way he’s driven in his first full season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hearing one of the drivers complaining that a driver he was overtaking had pushed him off the circuit, when he himself had collided with two drivers in the first three corners was definitely a case of the Vettel calling the pot black.... I didn't see any sign of Massa/Vettel being investigated. Why not? Vettel definitely left the track to pass but whether Massa forced him off or not was arguable. The incident should definitely have been investigated though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Further to the points made over grid place penalties, it's long been my opinion that, regardless of final finishing position, a constructors championship point should be awarded to a team if both cars go race distance. The only downside perhaps being an unwillingness to retire a possibly dangerous car? C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I don't know if this has been raised in response to this weekends race but are the judges so naive, think we are naive or are they something worse? Lewis asked a pertinent question, did Vettel run into him on purpose? I think he did. The commentators said that Vettel had most to lose. That's wrong. His front wing had already been damaged and would have meant a nose change anyway. I believe he intentionally ran into Lewis, either to put him out of the race or to put him at the back of the order, which is where Vettel knew he would be after a nose change. The alternative would have been Vettel at the back and Lewis in the lead. In the position that Vettel was in, it was the only way to keep his chances alive. If you doubt his intentions, just remind yourself of his tactics throughout the year. He has already rammed Lewis once this season. I'm not a great fan of Lewis so I have no axe to grid but the events do smell a bit. The judges feedback was no need to investigate. Would that have been the response in race 1. Also, based on the judging performance of late, would that have been the response if Max had run into Lewis or Vettel? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I didn't see any sign of Massa/Vettel being investigated. Why not? Vettel definitely left the track to pass but whether Massa forced him off or not was arguable. The incident should definitely have been investigated though. Again, I think because Vettel went off on the outside of the corner so had to go further as a result. Had he subsequently cut the inside of the next corner, it may well have been investigated, or he may have given the place back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I didn't see any sign of Massa/Vettel being investigated. Why not? Vettel definitely left the track to pass but whether Massa forced him off or not was arguable. The incident should definitely have been investigated though. Vettel was in a red car so different rules Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I don't know if this has been raised in response to this weekends race but are the judges so naive, think we are naive or are they something worse? Lewis asked a pertinent question, did Vettel run into him on purpose? I think he did. The commentators said that Vettel had most to lose. That's wrong. His front wing had already been damaged and would have meant a nose change anyway. I believe he intentionally ran into Lewis, either to put him out of the race or to put him at the back of the order, which is where Vettel knew he would be after a nose change. The alternative would have been Vettel at the back and Lewis in the lead. In the position that Vettel was in, it was the only way to keep his chances alive. If you doubt his intentions, just remind yourself of his tactics throughout the year. He has already rammed Lewis once this season. I'm not a great fan of Lewis so I have no axe to grid but the events do smell a bit. The judges feedback was no need to investigate. Would that have been the response in race 1. Also, based on the judging performance of late, would that have been the response if Max had run into Lewis or Vettel? I hope Vettel's lawyers don't read RMWeb... steve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Davis Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Vettel was in a red car so different rules Bernie seems to agree; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2017/10/28/bernie-ecclestone-suggests-fia-helped-ferrari-gain-f1-advantage/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_em 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Again, I think because Vettel went off on the outside of the corner so had to go further as a result. Had he subsequently cut the inside of the next corner, it may well have been investigated, or he may have given the place back. That is not how they usually view it, but this incident did not even get raised for investigation. Surely it justified that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I hope Vettel's lawyers don't read RMWeb... steve Just my humble opinion, of course, and does not represent the thoughts of the viewing public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 If nothing else, we were robbed of an exciting race. 20 seconds between 1st and 2nd. Then 30+ seconds between 2nd and 3rd is not a great spectacle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Vettel definitely left the track to pass but whether Massa forced him off or not was arguable. I don't think it's particularly arguable. Vettel was fully alongside Massa all the way through the left-hander and Massa ran all the way out to the white line on the exit. I don't think Vettel could realistically have backed off at any point, and my understading is that if the other car is alongside you, you are supposed to give it enough room so if anything Massa was at fault there. As they neared the right-hander Massa either made room for Vettel, or moved left with a view to getting a better run at the apex: Vettel stayed on Massa's inside and actually had at least two wheels well inside the white line at the moment that he actually got his nose properly in front. Youtube clip here (until it gets taken down). If Massa hadn't crowded Vettel the way he did, Vettel would probably still have got past but wouldn't have needed to put all four wheels over the white line to avoid Massa at the exit to the left-hander before completing the pass at the right-hander. I reckon it was a six and two threes, racing incident. (Do we actually know that it wasn't investigated? I suspect a lot of what goes on between the marshal posts, the stewards and the race director doesn't make it immediately, if ever, in to the public.) I do think that Vettel has got up to some shenanigans in the past, including (arguably/debatably) at the start of this race. But I wouldn't be able to agree that what Vettel did there was anything like as clear-cut as what Verstappen did to Raikkonen the week before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I don't know if this has been raised in response to this weekends race but are the judges so naive, think we are naive or are they something worse? Lewis asked a pertinent question, did Vettel run into him on purpose? I think he did. The commentators said that Vettel had most to lose. That's wrong. His front wing had already been damaged and would have meant a nose change anyway. I believe he intentionally ran into Lewis, either to put him out of the race or to put him at the back of the order, which is where Vettel knew he would be after a nose change. The alternative would have been Vettel at the back and Lewis in the lead. In the position that Vettel was in, it was the only way to keep his chances alive. If you doubt his intentions, just remind yourself of his tactics throughout the year. He has already rammed Lewis once this season. I'm not a great fan of Lewis so I have no axe to grid but the events do smell a bit. The judges feedback was no need to investigate. Would that have been the response in race 1. Also, based on the judging performance of late, would that have been the response if Max had run into Lewis or Vettel? That is a difficult call. They can't see their own front wing very well. Remember that the on board cameras which give us footage sit about a foot above the driver's eye level. He could not have seen how much damage his wing suffered although he would probably have seen some bits of it fly away. This would have reduced his downforce & you could see him fight the steering as the front slid into Hamilton. It all happened very quickly & most people would not have been able to think it all through in this short amount of time...but Vettel can think these through quicker than most so would almost certainly have had enough time. I disagree about him having less to lose than Hamilton. Vettel had to finish first or second. Hamilton had to finish 5th in any of the last 3 races, so a DNF here would have been an annoyance, not a disaster. Bottas drove a good race, largely unnoticed. He did Hamilton a great favour by staying out of trouble & well clear of the Ferraris. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (Do we actually know that it wasn't investigated? I suspect a lot of what goes on between the marshal posts, the stewards and the race director doesn't make it immediately, if ever, in to the public.) No, but the commentators were looking for it & I suspect we would have seen a caption for it. It was not like VanDoorne & Werlein clashing at the back, this was Vettel. I am inclined to agree with you that Massa forced him off, but think it at least justified an investigation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) That is a difficult call. They can't see their own front wing very well. Remember that the on board cameras which give us footage sit about a foot above the driver's eye level. He could not have seen how much damage his wing suffered although he would probably have seen some bits of it fly away. This would have reduced his downforce & you could see him fight the steering as the front slid into Hamilton. It all happened very quickly & most people would not have been able to think it all through in this short amount of time...but Vettel can think these through quicker than most so would almost certainly have had enough time. I disagree about him having less to lose than Hamilton. Vettel had to finish first or second. Hamilton had to finish 5th in any of the last 3 races, so a DNF here would have been an annoyance, not a disaster. Bottas drove a good race, largely unnoticed. He did Hamilton a great favour by staying out of trouble & well clear of the Ferraris. My point is that with front end damage that Vettel would certainly have known about and seeing Hamilton racing through to take the lead, Vettel would have seen his championship hopes disappearing. Past experience has shown that he is not averse to using alternative tactics to improve his chances. Edited October 30, 2017 by RBAGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Spolit twerp gets just deserts... Lawyers be damned, the bratwurst chomper gets worse and needs a good skelping... Ever maturing genius wins his fourth title... The aulder he gets, the better he gets... Mind, beware the coming Prince of Orange. Storming drive, deserved race winner. However, that is next season... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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