Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T

[ejstubbs]

Tracked down and bought a reasonably-priced LMS example from The Model Centre last week, arrived today.  Have to say I think it might be the best RTR loco I've ever bought new.  Runs beautifully straight out of the box, excellent low speed running, hauls four Bachmann period 1 57ft corridor coaches no problem at all and with a rather nice brief burst of wheelslip when "giving it the berries" from a standing start.  No problems with the reverse curves, double slip or dodgy track joint (note to self: must get round to fixing that!) in my station throat, unlike some locomotives I could mention (cough 2-4-2T cough).  The coreless motor doesn't seem to have problem with my non-feedback PWM controller set at 10kHz - no signs of overheating or any other unpleasantness.

 

It's still running in on my rolling road just now but first impressions are extremely positive.

[Flittersnoop]

On 03/03/2021 at 19:50, Steamport Southport said:

Personally I think three is enough!

 

But I might be tempted with a Belpaire firebox variant at some point in the future. If I wanted to build a kit of an "LMS" 0-4-4T I would put the effort into a LRM LMS 2P. I can't see one of those appearing RTR.

 

 

 

Jason

It's probably on KR Models to-do list.

[CrazyRS]

Good evening, 

 

Is anyone able to tell me if the LMS had any of there 1532 Class in crimson lake livery before they where painted black? An if so what numbers. I have looked online an can’t find any livery information. 

[Compound2632]

48 minutes ago, CrazyRS said:

Good evening, 

 

Is anyone able to tell me if the LMS had any of there 1532 Class in crimson lake livery before they where painted black? An if so what numbers. I have looked online an can’t find any livery information. 

 

All those engines that passed to the LMS had the first LMS passenger livery, i.e. Midland crimson lake livery with the LMS roundel replacing the Midland coat of arms on the bunker, and the number in 18" numerals on the tank side. They retained their Midland numbers. This is not the quite same as the livery on Bachmann's Midland-liveried version, which represents an intermediate style of c. 1905-1908. Black was adopted from 1928; I'm not sure if there's any detailed information on repainting dates, some may have continued in their old red livery for a few years. But none were ever red with LMS on the tank sides.

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image ref. mrn330.]

 

NB. This particular engine is a member of the 2228 Class, which had slightly taller tanks and bunker than Bachmann's 1532 Class.

[Steamport Southport]

I'll have a look later, but I think some got the small LMS lettering on the bunker whilst red.

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

I'll have a look later, but I think some got the small LMS lettering on the bunker whilst red.

 

Yes - prior to the adoption of the roundel, I think. F. James, D. Hunt and R.J. Essery, Midland Engines No. 1 ‘1833’ and ‘2228’ Class bogie passenger tanks (Wild Swan, 1999) p. 44 has a photo of 1402 in that condition. That's a 2228 Class engine, rather than a 1532, so not absolute evidence for a prototype of the Bachmann model so adorned, though in the text (p. 43) they do imply that it was reasonably common, though the roundel was more often used. 

 

Reading that, I see I blundered, saying:

 

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

the LMS roundel replacing the Midland coat of arms on the bunker

 

as in Midland days the coat of arms was not carried on the bunker. The builder's plate, whether contractors or Derby, was carried on the centre of the bunker side-sheet; it was with the first LMS livery that these were moved or replaced lower down the side-sheet.

[CrazyRS]

On 06/01/2022 at 22:05, Compound2632 said:

 

All those engines that passed to the LMS had the first LMS passenger livery, i.e. Midland crimson lake livery with the LMS roundel replacing the Midland coat of arms on the bunker, and the number in 18" numerals on the tank side. They retained their Midland numbers. This is not the quite same as the livery on Bachmann's Midland-liveried version, which represents an intermediate style of c. 1905-1908. Black was adopted from 1928; I'm not sure if there's any detailed information on repainting dates, some may have continued in their old red livery for a few years. But none were ever red with LMS on the tank sides.

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways image ref. mrn330.]

 

NB. This particular engine is a member of the 2228 Class, which had slightly taller tanks and bunker than Bachmann's 1532 Class.

 

Thanks for the information. My plan is to take Bachmann's Midland 1539 and renumber into LMS livery.

 

On 07/01/2022 at 15:30, Compound2632 said:

Midland Engines No. 1 ‘1833’ and ‘2228’ Class bogie passenger tanks

 

I'm sure my father has a copy of that book, next time I'm visiting I'll venture into the library an have a look.

[Compound2632]

Yes, first LMS livery was the same as we see on Bachmann's Midland-liveried engine but with the large digits on the tank side and the roundel on the bunker.

 

But I would confidently expect that Bachmann's first re-run of these will include a version in early LMS livery - it's a no-brainer.

[CrazyRS]

On 10/01/2022 at 22:59, Compound2632 said:

Yes, first LMS livery was the same as we see on Bachmann's Midland-liveried engine but with the large digits on the tank side and the roundel on the bunker.

 

But I would confidently expect that Bachmann's first re-run of these will include a version in early LMS livery - it's a no-brainer.

Thank you again for the confirmation. Yes, your probably correct, it’s is a no brainier for Bachmann, but I don’t fancy waiting 3 years. I’ve done the same with Bachmann’s NER green J72, I’ve renumbered that in LNER livery. 

[Les1952]

A friend led me kicking and screaming into Peters Spares shop on Wednesday and I came out with a sound-fitted BR version.

 

Now I THOUGHT that the E1 (J72 in LNER speak) was the best Bachmann loco yet but I'm beginning to change my mind in favour of this one.

 

The only niggle is that it could do with a CV list including in the instructions as I feel the master volume could do with some tweaking and the function key volume change latches mute but doesn't do master volume it would appear, despite what the leaflet says.

 

Les

 

With club experience of a pair of new V2s that are a bit track sensitive this model IMHO tops the V2....

 

 

[Kaput]

Factory sound is an ESU decoder so master volume should be CV63.

 

Individual sounds are much more complex and unless you can get a CV listing from Bachmann you really need something like a Lokprogrammer or computer interface to read the decoder with DecoderPro.

 

Latching of the function keys for volume control entirely depends on your controller. Since the most common DCC controllers only have latching for most functions the idea of function controlled volume seems a bit pointless to me considering how many button presses are needed to activate and deactivate the function the volume is usually assigned to.

[Les1952]

On 27/02/2022 at 23:42, Kaput said:

Factory sound is an ESU decoder so master volume should be CV63.

 

Individual sounds are much more complex and unless you can get a CV listing from Bachmann you really need something like a Lokprogrammer or computer interface to read the decoder with DecoderPro.

 

Latching of the function keys for volume control entirely depends on your controller. Since the most common DCC controllers only have latching for most functions the idea of function controlled volume seems a bit pointless to me considering how many button presses are needed to activate and deactivate the function the volume is usually assigned to.

 

Shift+headlight twice then f1 to latch/unlatch volume on/off but the same sequence repeatedly to cycle  through the volumes.  Unfortunately while going through the three sets of keystrokes the decoder has time to decide you are latching or unlatching again.

 

Many thanks for CV63 - I think I've got that written down somewhere from adjusting the master volume on another loco.  I'll play with that tomorrow, the volume straight out of the box is so low you couldn't hear it against clubroom conversation so at a show (which it has later in the month) it would just be inaudible.  I also need to reduce the degree of coasting- a 7 foot long layout and quite a few locos with wildly differing instruction sets and degrees of coasting makes it important for everything to be close to shunt mode as default.  It means new operators have a fighting chance of not damaging anything.

 

As I said earlier, the only down side to a fantastically good model.

 

All the very best

Les

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

  I also need to reduce the degree of coasting- a 7 foot long layout and quite a few locos with wildly differing instruction sets and degrees of coasting makes it important for everything to be close to shunt mode as default.  It means new operators have a fighting chance of not damaging anything.

 

As I said earlier, the only down side to a fantastically good model.

 

All the very best

Les

 

 

I'm sure you know this already but the 'brake' is on function 2 - very satisfying and accurate stopping can be had by dabbing the brake on and off. The other option is to use shunt mode on F19 - reduces the top speed and makes stopping quicker and more positive.

[Les1952]

11 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm sure you know this already but the 'brake' is on function 2 - very satisfying and accurate stopping can be had by dabbing the brake on and off. The other option is to use shunt mode on F19 - reduces the top speed and makes stopping quicker and more positive.

 

Fine- but the majority of my fleet have a whistle on f2.  Instant confusion for the operator, especially when one fills in at short notice.

 

Changing to shunt mode on f19 is also not universal- more confusion.....

 

Les

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Les1952

[No Decorum]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Fine- but the majority of my fleet have a whistle on f2.  Instant confusion for the operator, especially when one fills in at short notice.

 

Changing to shunt mode on f19 is also not universal- more confusion.....

 

Les

 

In my view, that is the biggest problem with DCC. What we need is a handheld controller with the functionality  of a laptop system. Tactile buttons, perhaps separated by a plastic grid and backlit with the functions appropriate to the model being controlled. Just, please, no touch screen.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

In my view, that is the biggest problem with DCC. What we need is a handheld controller with the functionality  of a laptop system. Tactile buttons, perhaps separated by a plastic grid and backlit with the functions appropriate to the model being controlled. Just, please, no touch screen.

 

Voice control? 

 

"1P, get chuffing!"

 

I remain convinced it's not only easier and cheaper but also more realistic to make the noises oneself.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Compound2632

[Les1952]

12 hours ago, No Decorum said:

In my view, that is the biggest problem with DCC. What we need is a handheld controller with the functionality  of a laptop system. Tactile buttons, perhaps separated by a plastic grid and backlit with the functions appropriate to the model being controlled. Just, please, no touch screen.

 

Even that depends on each loco having the same response to the same button.   

 

The problem we face on NO PLACE is that while the operator working the screens keeps the same loco going for an hour or more before getting fed up and changing it for a different one the operator working the preservation side is rotating through five or six different locomotives as a loco brings in its passenger train, retires to the shed for water, moves on to coal then to the "ready" road and to the headshunt to follow the train out and occupy the lay-by siding ready to take out the next departure. The arrangement is an inglenook with no run-round anywhere on the layout.  When a passenger train arrives each loco is moved up in turn.

 

The six preserved locos could be as follows (all sound fitted)-

 

Hattons class P

DJ Models yellow peril J94

Bachmann NCB liveried USA Tank with Pauliebanger sound

Dapol B4 0-4-0T with Youchoos sound

Bachmann E1 (J72) with factory sound 

DJM WD with Lambton cab and sound by someone I can't remember...

 

There are several others that can go into that mix up to a V3 tank in size.  Remembering to shunt the locos in the shed and keeping an outward flow of locos to avoid getting blocked in is hard enough.  Add in remembering which button works the whistle- f2=short, f3= long, f3=long, f3=playable, f5= playable, f6= two short  (and they don't all go on the "horn" button on the cab) is an extra problem.  Shunt mode being different for different chips is again an issue.

Hence altering CVs to get rid of coasting.  On a 7-foot layout the locos never move more than four feet in a single movement. 

 

Les

 

 

[No Decorum]

9 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Even that depends on each loco having the same response to the same button.   

 

The problem we face on NO PLACE is that while the operator working the screens keeps the same loco going for an hour or more before getting fed up and changing it for a different one the operator working the preservation side is rotating through five or six different locomotives as a loco brings in its passenger train, retires to the shed for water, moves on to coal then to the "ready" road and to the headshunt to follow the train out and occupy the lay-by siding ready to take out the next departure. The arrangement is an inglenook with no run-round anywhere on the layout.  When a passenger train arrives each loco is moved up in turn.

 

The six preserved locos could be as follows (all sound fitted)-

 

Hattons class P

DJ Models yellow peril J94

Bachmann NCB liveried USA Tank with Pauliebanger sound

Dapol B4 0-4-0T with Youchoos sound

Bachmann E1 (J72) with factory sound 

DJM WD with Lambton cab and sound by someone I can't remember...

 

There are several others that can go into that mix up to a V3 tank in size.  Remembering to shunt the locos in the shed and keeping an outward flow of locos to avoid getting blocked in is hard enough.  Add in remembering which button works the whistle- f2=short, f3= long, f3=long, f3=playable, f5= playable, f6= two short  (and they don't all go on the "horn" button on the cab) is an extra problem.  Shunt mode being different for different chips is again an issue.

Hence altering CVs to get rid of coasting.  On a 7-foot layout the locos never move more than four feet in a single movement. 

 

Les

 

 

Exactly. My intention was to describe a system where each button displayed an icon or short description of the function. They would change according to the locomotive selected, as happens with laptop control. More standardisation of which F button does what would be welcome but is not totally achievable. Steam and diesel haven’t pantographs. Electrics have no huge cooling fans on the roofs and so on. In addition, some models have features others don’t, for example, Bachmann’s nifty uncoupling sequence.

 

Gresley is reported to have said, “To standardise is to stagnate.” I adopted sound early. There are many differences between the early projects and the latest.

[CrazyRS]

Midland to LMS Crimson Lake Livery before, during an after. Surprised how easily the Midland lettering and numbering were removed, leaving little or no trace behind. Handrails painted back and re-liveried, had a right mare with the transfers but it’s pretty much done. Just needs a coat of lacquer, an adding the rest of the detailing pack.

[Paul Cram]

How did you remove the Midland lettering?

[Compound2632]

Very neatly done. I'm sure Bachmann will do this themselves before too long!

 

Because I'm a compulsive rivet-counter who is suffering withdrawal symptoms on account of lack of rivets to count, I do feel obliged to point out that in early LMS condition the engine would have the Deeley smokebox and chimney, per other versions of the model. I'm sure you know that anyway and won't thank me for saying so but it relieves my itch.

 

The hybrid condition that Bachmann went for was a bit of a strange choice.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Compound2632

[drt7uk]

Fantastic loco which I've just paid an insane amount for on eBay. If only I could've turned back time and gone for the SDJR one but still looks splendid in MR maroon.

 

Only issue I had was with the rear bogie pickups. Turned out the issue was glue marks inside the body where the copper contacts from the bogie met the copper plates inside the body. Seems like they put too much glue on in the factory and it smeared onto the copper plates, but this was easily rectified with a light bit of wet and dry paper. I pushed the pickups out a bit more as well for good measure to ensure they always touch the wheels. Now it works well even over express points.

[franciswilliamwebb]

26 minutes ago, drt7uk said:

Fantastic loco which I've just paid an insane amount for on eBay. If only I could've turned back time and gone for the SDJR one but still looks splendid in MR maroon.

 

Yeah.  I don't normally do the Collectors Club thing, but joined the Bachmann one just for that SDJR loco.  I've no earthly use for it, simply couldn't resist 🥰

 

[drt7uk]

8 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Yeah.  I don't normally do the Collectors Club thing, but joined the Bachmann one just for that SDJR loco.  I've no earthly use for it, simply couldn't resist 🥰

 

 

You made the right call, very jealous!!

[NHY 581]

They are probably amongst the best RTR pre-grouping locos released so far. Of cause the various Wainwright liveried locos are true peacocks but I too joined the collector's club just to get my hooves on one. 

 

 

54 was the only example Bachmann could have done in order to be truly accurate. The S&DJR had other 0.4.4t but these were either by Avonside or Vulcan and they differed from the Johnson examples. 54 was sent by the Midland to replace one of these. 

 

If only they'd do a Johnson tendered 4F or their 3F in S&D black.........