West Highland Line V4, a 1980's West Highland Line layout

[young37215]

Slowly onwards with all 5 signal boxes nearing completion. Although a lot of work has been required which will not be obviously visible, I plan to have lighting in the boxes which should make the detail more visible. The knowledge that the boxes are reasonably accurately detailed also makes me feel good.

 

Mallaig was reasonably straightforward once I had found a picture of the internal layout. The view below only requires the addition of a seat and a signalman to be complete. 

 

 

Crianlarich has been fiddly because the dimensions of my model are smaller than the real thing. On WHL4 the signal box has 3 sets of windows to the platform whereas on the real thing it is 4 which make WHL4's signal box 25% undersized. As a consequence the lever frame has been shortened from 24 to 20 and even then remains a tight fit. I need to add desks for the signalmans train register and the 2 token machines. Annoyingly I painted the desks red, not brown which I want to correct. I managed to get the right colour white for the windows!

 

 

Crianlarich was one of the few signal boxes on the WHL which was occupied full time. This meant that all of the signalling equipment was contained within the box, on the down platform side this comprised most of the instrumentation in addition to the lever frame. I had to trim down the Ratio equipment to fit the box, when superglued in place it looks the part. 

 

 

Awaiting repainting and fitting is the residual furniture and equipment for Crianlarich. Despite being a junction, only 2 token machines were required because the line north was tokenless block through to Rannoch.

 

 

In between the signal box work I started a new running day. 37111 had charge of the down sleeper and is seen waiting departure from Crianlarich.

 

[Dunalastair]

Having been prompted by this thread, I have been re-reading my copy of 'All Stations to Mallaig' written in the early eighties, when the type 2s still ruled the roost. It concludes with the arrival of the 37s, making the comment that an earlier trial ten years before had decided that the combination of lighter rail and sharp bends did not favour the twelve wheelers.

 

So what changed other than the increasing age of the 27s?

[03060]

11 hours ago, Dunalastair said:

Having been prompted by this thread, I have been re-reading my copy of 'All Stations to Mallaig' written in the early eighties, when the type 2s still ruled the roost. It concludes with the arrival of the 37s, making the comment that an earlier trial ten years before had decided that the combination of lighter rail and sharp bends did not favour the twelve wheelers.

 

So what changed other than the increasing age of the 27s?

 

There is a good colour photo of this trial loco (D6936) at Fort William shed in 1968 in the current (Feb '24) Backtrack magazine. (Outside the scope of this thread ... but now you've mentioned it.)

[mallaig1983]

15 hours ago, Dunalastair said:

Having been prompted by this thread, I have been re-reading my copy of 'All Stations to Mallaig' written in the early eighties, when the type 2s still ruled the roost. It concludes with the arrival of the 37s, making the comment that an earlier trial ten years before had decided that the combination of lighter rail and sharp bends did not favour the twelve wheelers.

 

So what changed other than the increasing age of the 27s?

I imagine that your last sentence sums it up exactly.

[03060]

I'm not sure that the wheel wear issue ever went away as 37175 was fitted for a few years in the mid 80s whilst on the WHL with experimental bogies which I think were described as 'self steering' (might be wromg about that ?) The other area that may have been developed in that time after 1968 would possibly have been lubricants and systems to apply them.

 

As ever, we could do with an ex-driver or Eastfield employee to join our ranks.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[young37215]

My understanding of the reasons behind the introduction of the 37's on the WHL was twofold. 27's were scheduled for withdrawl and the more powerful 37's would  speed up services. This was classic BR cascading, the 37's had been displaced from much of their passenger work in East Anglia and were looking for a new home. As others have stated, the curvature of the line meant that higher than average wheel wear was experienced but from what I have read, this seems to have been accepted as the price of the more powerful locos. The transition from Bullhead to heavier Flatbottom rail will have offset some of the increased wear.   

 

The mountaineous section is getting a good test because, despite my best efforts the joint between the 2 baseboards is not quite flat. They are only a mm or two out which should be capable of being eased out but this is made difficult because accessing from underneath is not easy. I have not encountered any derailments on the section, my Accurascale 37's with it's fixed middle wheel have both had a number of passes, and suspect that the addition of scenic material will reduce the visual appearance that currently irritates me. 

 

37111 continues its journey north over the mountaineous section.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by young37215

[Module00]

Mk1 sleeping cars. I like this train and I have this train. 
soon another video on my channel with this composition. 

[Sharky]

On 29/01/2024 at 05:36, young37215 said:

Despite being a junction, only 2 token machines were required because the line north was tokenless block through to Rannoch.

Just on this point, if it wasn't token block, what was the 'method of working' over the single line between Crianlarich & Rannoch? 

[young37215]

2 hours ago, Sharky said:

Just on this point, if it wasn't token block, what was the 'method of working' over the single line between Crianlarich & Rannoch? 

 

'Tokenless Block' was the method of working using electrical equipment to interlock signals to ensure only one train could access the section. TB used essentially the same method as the rest of the line, the major difference being the absence of a physical token. There are plenty of more extensive explanations on the www for those who are interested. 

 

Having finished the signal box detail work for now I want to finish testing (aka playing trains) the mountaneous section before adding scenic materials. Chasing the down sleeper is 7B02, 06.06 Sighthill to Mallaig Junction Yard seen arriving at Ardlui with 37011. The last picture shows a tail lamp fitted OAA, having made the effort to add tail lamps I am pleased with the result. It is easy enough to lift the wagon on arrival at the final destination and swap it around so that the tail lamp remains at the rear of the train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daddyman]

On 29/01/2024 at 11:04, 03060 said:

I'm not sure that the wheel wear issue ever went away as 37175 was fitted for a few years in the mid 80s whilst on the WHL with experimental bogies which I think were described as 'self steering' (might be wromg about that ?) The other area that may have been developed in that time after 1968 would possibly have been lubricants and systems to apply them.

 

As ever, we could do with an ex-driver or Eastfield employee to join our ranks.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

 

The captions to these photos on Flickr are well worth reading too, as are all of Spannerman37025's Eastfield photo captions. 

[young37215]

10 hours ago, Daddyman said:

 

 

The captions to these photos on Flickr are well worth reading too, as are all of Spannerman37025's Eastfield photo captions. 

 

Spannerman's Flickr photographs are up there with Ernie Bracke's as a source of reference material for the 1980's modeller of the WHL. I did not know that Test Car 6 was used when Scotrail ran their trials with 37175, it would be an interesting train to reproduce. 

 

An early morning Fort William miscellany today, 37108 with 08.45 to Mallaig using the green and cream steam hauled stock. 37017 runs around the 07.00 Mallaig to Glasgow whilst 37033 waits quietly its next booked duty, the 14.30 For William to Mallaig. Note to self, I must install the MAS lights that I bought for Fort William months ago!

  

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Nice to see the green and cream mark 1s. How often did 37s work this set? Was it just following steam failures or was there a regular turn?

 

Andy

Edited February 1 by thegreenhowards

[young37215]

20 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Nice to see the green and cream mark 1s. How often did 37s work this set? Was it just following steam failures or was there a regular turn?

 

Andy

 

Failures only so far as I am aware. It's not a service that I am very familiar with but I do like the variety of the green and cream coaches in an otherwise blue and grey world.  They get two round trips a day on WHL4, not very prototypical but this works well in operating the timetable. 

 

Rattling into Crianlarich with an Oban to Glasgow train, 37012 slows for the stop. The Comer post bus makes its debut in pictures 3 and 4.

 

 

 

 

 

[young37215]

Progress with the mountaineous section has been slow largely because I cannot quite get clear in my head what I want to see. I plan to include a loch running along side the track as it approaches the gradient summit of about 1000mm in length and 120mm width as shown in the picture below. The smaller area marked will also be filled with a water effect product as a test and learning experience for the loch. I need to tweak the landscape and paint the 'floor' of the loch a darker colour to emphasise the depth. It will require a resin or similar product to create the water effect which is something I have zero experience of. I have watched a few Youtube videos where Woodland Scenics Deep Pour water has been used to good effect and am tempted to try this out. It is not cheap, £40 plus a bottle for 12 fluid ounces and I need at least 2 bottles for the loch. 

 

Does anyone have experiences of Woodland Scenics Deep Pour to share or counsel to give on what else I could use to create the visual appearance of water?

 

 

What I am looking to create is a variation on the bottom end of Loch Eilt to the north of Glenfinnan. 

 

 

If I can recreate the reflection effect I will be a happy camper

 

 

[03060]

Morning Rob,

 

I'm afraid that I've no experience of the deep water product but £80+ does sound a bit expensive (to this Yorkshireman's ears) to produce a relatively small Loch, would varnish over a subtley painted flat piece of board not work ? You could at least try this off layout on an offcut to see the effect, likewise a piece of painted (on the underside) Perspex might work ? Layouts that spring to mind featuring this type of method would be Bassenthwaite Lake and a layout that I very much like and saw at the weekend, Sandy Bay, which has a thread on here but does represent the sea rather than a Loch but the harbour area will be of interest to you. Both are N gauge but the techniques would apply here and Sandy Bay is very much the inspiration behind my (hopefully) forthcoming Mallaig Line inspired layout.

 

(Ground work p.2, painting and varnishing p.3)

 

Regarding the photos in your last post, I think the foreground water in the 2nd photo suits your space very much. The other area to look for inspiration would be Rannoch Moor maybe even looking at non-railway images as when I use the A82 I certainly pass by many small Lochs up on the section between Bridge of Orchy and up and over to the beginning of Glen Coe.

 

A note on the 2nd photo by Allan Mitchell is that it shows the Blue Grey coaches that were used in the first season of the steam hauled services in 1984  before they were painted into the Green and Cream livery, note the terrier mid coach, so this may be a photo of an example of a diesel replacement ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

 

Edited February 3 by 03060
Extra info added.

[Karl]

4 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

 

Does anyone have experiences of Woodland Scenics Deep Pour to share or counsel to give on what else I could use to create the visual appearance of water?

 

 

 

 

 

I love this layout and it's a part of the world I go to regular now to photograph the steam services. 

 

I haven't used the deep pour but I have used realistic water for a few things and find depth can be suggested by colour. So a thought I've had is could you paint the bottom of the lochs black or more likely a dark navy blue, then add a clear perspex level say 2cm below the top of the loch and put the resin water on this but have a blue tint added to it. That might give you a slightly opaque water that you can just see through to the dark blue painted below. It might give you an illusion of depth without using lots of resin. Probably would need an off board trial. 

[mallaig1983]

I have been mulling over how to do the water for the little piece of the North Atlantic that I need to model on Mallaig. This below is one option and it has been used to very good effect on Redbridge Wharf which is in the current Hornby Magazine and I have seen recently at either Warley or GETS.

 

I think I favour resin though as I want to see things under the ‘water’ like the stones on the shoreline and the rails on the slipway. Luke Towan has done some tutorials on this but he’s down under and I haven’t researched to see if the products he uses for his sea or river dioramas is available here in the UK. 
 

 

I hope these video help.

 

Andy

[37081LochLong]

I see resin used by lots of modellers these day but I don't like the effect it has at the edges with creeping up everything and creating unrealistic lips. I think it looks stunning otherwise though. But I still see old school modellers sticking to using paints and gloss medium like say varnish to get just as good if not better results if done right. It's what you are happier with at the end of the day. It's just these days youtube is full of people going the resisin pour method for every drop of water even if it's just a puddle lol

[Softvark]

I used resin on the harbour scene on my layout and it can work well but you have to be really careful to make sure the area you are pouring into is completely sealed. Resin will find the tiniest pin hole and empty on to the floor.

 

For the river area I used good old gloss varnish which was far more controllable.

 

Julian

 

[Dunalastair]

3 hours ago, 03060 said:

... when I use the A82 I certainly pass by many small Lochs up on the section between Bridge of Orchy and up and over to the beginning of Glen Coe ...

 

At the risk of being pedantic, 'lochan' has a better ring to my ear than 'small loch', and even your larger hollow is more lochan than loch.

 

Clear resin makes sense for the 'babbling brook' type of water feature, but between peaty water and wind-rippled surfaces, you cannot see far into a typical lochan even vertically, and the viewing angle on your layout looks more oblique.

 

I also wonder about the visual impact of the location, above the steep drop to the lower level. Breaking up the edges with reeds, rocks and islets (which you probably have planned) and some birches might help to persuade the eye that these are two separate scenes, rather than two railways in one valley (as at Tyndrum or the CR's rejected scheme to parallel the WHR down Glenfalloch to Loch Lomond). 

 

https://www.jasonfriendprints.com/scotland/scotland-scottish-highlands-rannoch-moor-3997617.html

[Fishplate]

I've used the toilet paper + glue + acrylic paint option, as shown below. I wanted to get a 'wind rippled' effect in an enclosed dock. 

 

I had bought 125ml of Delux Materials Scenic Water. I decided not to go with it, as my dock ends at the edge of the world and I wasnt confident I could achieve a proper seal. It's looking for a home if you want to try for the cost of postage @young37215. PM me if you're interested in experimenting with it.

 

@Schooner has used resin on his layout. He may be able to give some advice and point you at the relevant pages on his topic. He got some really nice reflections. Similarly @NHY 581. 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Fishplate

[young37215]

Thanks to everyone for their response, this has been a useful exercise and gone a long way to clarifying my thoughts. I have also learnt a new word, lochan is not something I had heard before. From the responses and my research I consider a resin product will give the best effect for the lochans on WHL4. I have looked at a few resin options and all seem similarly priced and fairly expensive. I am currently leaning towards the Woodland Scenics product where I think the Murky Deep Pour is the way to go. The link below shows an excellent resin pour in a diaroma where the landscape most closely resembles WHL4. Whether I add the Modpodge will be a decision taken after the resin has been poured and allowed to dry.  

 

As a next step I need to do some more work on the base of the lochans. I think a layer or two of clingfilm covered with plaster cloth will create a watertight area as well as raising the height of the central floor area into which I pour the resin. I am hoping that by raising the central height I'll reduce the amount of resin required. As a starter I'll trial this on the small lochan first to gain some experience and see how things work before attempting the bigger area. Watch this space, I might need to have a few days of running to build up some momentum before starting! 

 

 

 

 

[peterm1]

Thanks for posting that. I'll see if I can get a water scene of some sort on my layout.

[thegreenhowards]

Rob,

 

This link is our club OO gauge exhibition layout. 
 

 

We made this river with normal casting resin available off Amazon for £18 per kg. I think it was this one but will check if you’re interested.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Water-Clear-Casting-Resin-Polyester/dp/B06XPSL1MW/ref=sr_1_5_pp?crid=16CFVMA69S7WU&keywords=casting+resin+clear&qid=1707037717&sprefix=Casting+Resin%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-5

 

The base was painted and detailed first and you can add dye if required. We used modge podge blown through a straw to make the rippled effect on top…but you probably wouldn’t want that for a lochan.

 

Andy

[meanach]

I know from my own experience that even when I thought I’d sealed the base of my river on Meanach , the resin escaped.

 

My own river method was to seal in my various enamel painted pollyfilla bed with varnish. I left that to cure for about 6 weeks before using 2 bottles (6 months apart!) of Woodland scenics realistic water.

 

I tried other manufacturers but I found them thinner and more prone to yellowing in strong sunlight.