Little Muddle

[vulcanbomber]

Just to prove that it's not all photography and messing with filters, settings, post focus etc.at the moment I have just finished painting some Dart Casting figures which have just been coated with Dullcote and now waiting for them to dry.

Tend to leave it an hour or two as I have known 'build ups' to take a while to throughly dry.

 

Better get those Ikea bean bags back in the cupboard!

 

IMG_3096.JPG

 

And before anyone thinks that I have modelled Miss Whiplash in some erotic scene yet to be disclosed........no, it is in fact the Colonels wife enjoying a moment of tranquil fishing in the stream, probably by the viaduct area looks favourite at the moment!!!!!!!

 

 

Glad you found an excuse to add the traction engine

[KNP]

Well funny you should mention that but before the rain came I was out for stroll and saw Titan trundling down the lane so I took a quick picture for you.....!!!!

I also noticed the Colonels wife got out to do some fishing as well...by the viaduct as I thought she would.

 

 

Edited March 7 by KNP

[KNP]

N.B.  No such thing as a Limit of Shunt board/sign on a single line, it would be a logical impossibility.  If however the line is unidirectional then it's a different matter.

 

Instead would they then use an illuminated stop sign (or stop board) on a post to ensure a train does not go any further around the corner where a train might be waiting at the signal. 

[5BarVT]

Ah. This signalling stuff with lots of things to catch you out. . . Not sure where your shunt ahead signal is (I wondered if it was on the bracket signal at the junction) so this will be principle rather than specific detail.

Single lines are 'only one train at a time' 'ever' (well almost!). The 'almost' is your shunt ahead, but that is only behind a train going away into the section. No need for a limit of shunt for that because the train is going away. If the other train is coming towards through the section, then nothing moves towards it. You have to wait until it has arrived and is clear of the single line.

So, sorry, no shunting towards a train standing on the single line at the home signal.

Hope that helps, even if it's not the answer you wanted!

Paul.

[The Johnster]

Instead would they then use an illuminated stop sign (or stop board) on a post to ensure a train does not go any further around the corner where a train might be waiting at the signal. 

 

No.  Such a sign is used when a train is signalled off a running line into the reception road of a yard and indicates the point at which the driver must stop and await instruction from staff on the ground in the form of verbal communication or a handsignal from a competent person authorised by the yard supervisor (at some locations he may have a telephone on which to receive such instructions, particularly entering loco sheds).  Such a stop board is signalled into by a shunting or subsidiary signal which only permits approach to the stop sign under caution and as far as the line is visibly clear.  It is necessary because there may be other movements taking place in the yard of which this driver is not aware.

 

Paul is right. you can't shunt into a section being occupied by an approaching train even if it is known to be standing at the outermost home signal and not coming towards you at that moment.  This is one of the things that make single line working more interesting, and challenging to compile working timetables for.  Not only can you not shunt towards an approaching train, you can't shunt towards a single line section on to which such a train has been accepted from the previous signal box, even if it hasn't been signalled from that box yet; once the receiving box has accepted the train from the offering box, the section is considered as occupied as he cannot 'unaccept' it without blocking back or declaring an obstruction danger situation.

 

A shunt ahead signal, when cleared, authorises the driver to proceed with caution as far as the line is visibly clear, and as far as an advanced starter signal which protects the rear of the receding previous train now in the section. He should not in any case proceed further than is necessary into the section to clear the movement, and as the maximum length of trains allowed in the section is known and must not be exceeded by a shunting movement, the distance he is allowed to proceed is prescribed.  The signalman, meanwhile cannot accept a train into the section coming towards the shunt, not just shouldn't, cannot, as the interlocking prevents him from doing so, so the shunt must be completed back inside station limits and off the section before he is able to accept a train from the box in rear, which he must do before the box in rear is able to clear it's most advanced starter signal for it. 

 

If this seems overcautious, remember the chilling words of my old guard's inspector who told us when we passed out on rules to 'never forget that on the end of every one of these rules is a bucket of blood'.

Edited July 28, 2017 by The Johnster

[KNP]

Ah. This signalling stuff with lots of things to catch you out. . . Not sure where your shunt ahead signal is (I wondered if it was on the bracket signal at the junction) so this will be principle rather than specific detail.

Single lines are 'only one train at a time' 'ever' (well almost!). The 'almost' is your shunt ahead, but that is only behind a train going away into the section. No need for a limit of shunt for that because the train is going away. If the other train is coming towards through the section, then nothing moves towards it. You have to wait until it has arrived and is clear of the single line.

So, sorry, no shunting towards a train standing on the single line at the home signal.

Hope that helps, even if it's not the answer you wanted!

Paul.

 

 

No.  Such a sign is used when a train is signalled off a running line into the reception road of a yard and indicates the point at which the driver must stop and await instruction from staff on the ground in the form of verbal communication or a handsignal from a competent person authorised by the yard supervisor (at some locations he may have a telephone on which to receive such instructions, particularly entering loco sheds).  Such a stop board is signalled into by a shunting or subsidiary signal which only permits approach to the stop sign under caution and as far as the line is visibly clear.  It is necessary because there may be other movements taking place in the yard of which this driver is not aware.

 

Paul is right. you can't shunt into a section being occupied by an approaching train even if it is known to be standing at the outermost home signal and not coming towards you at that moment.  This is one of the things that make single line working more interesting, and challenging to compile working timetables for.  Not only can you not shunt towards an approaching train, you can't shunt towards a single line section on to which such a train has been accepted from the previous signal box, even if it hasn't been signalled from that box yet; once the receiving box has accepted the train from the offering box, the section is considered as occupied as he cannot 'unaccept' it without blocking back or declaring an obstruction danger situation.

 

A shunt ahead signal, when cleared, authorises the driver to proceed with caution as far as the line is visibly clear, and as far as an advanced starter signal which protects the rear of the receding previous train now in the section. He should not in any case proceed further than is necessary into the section to clear the movement, and as the maximum length of trains allowed in the section is known and must not be exceeded by a shunting movement, the distance he is allowed to proceed is prescribed.  The signalman, meanwhile cannot accept a train into the section coming towards the shunt, not just shouldn't, cannot, as the interlocking prevents him from doing so, so the shunt must be completed back inside station limits and off the section before he is able to accept a train from the box in rear, which he must do before the box in rear is able to clear it's most advanced starter signal for it. 

 

If this seems overcautious, remember the chilling words of my old guard's inspector who told us when we passed out on rules to 'never forget that on the end of every one of these rules is a bucket of blood'.

 

Thanks for your comments.

I will leave it alone and instead just put a couple of whistle signs up either side of  the crossing.......I think?

[KNP]

City gent has missed his connection to Exeter as he is waiting for the first sighting of 7200 running 'tender fist' from ANTB to come by....!!!!!?????

 

 

 

Didn't have the heart to tell him it's on a different railway layout miles away from here.

Edited March 7 by KNP

[gwrrob]

I don't think Ali, Frazier or Foreman had a tender fist....

[KNP]

I don't think Ali, Frazier or Foreman had a tender fist....

 

Ha..Ha...Ha.... funny what you don't spot when you read through it before posting.

 

I shall leave it for posterity and to remind me to read what I type not what I think I have typed...!!!

[The Stationmaster]

Instead would they then use an illuminated stop sign (or stop board) on a post to ensure a train does not go any further around the corner where a train might be waiting at the signal. 

 

No.

 

If shunting out onto a single line section there would not be a train waiting at a signal as the shunt would not be permitted if there was a train waiting at the signal. 

 

Ah. This signalling stuff with lots of things to catch you out. . . Not sure where your shunt ahead signal is (I wondered if it was on the bracket signal at the junction) so this will be principle rather than specific detail.

Single lines are 'only one train at a time' 'ever' (well almost!). The 'almost' is your shunt ahead, but that is only behind a train going away into the section. No need for a limit of shunt for that because the train is going away. If the other train is coming towards through the section, then nothing moves towards it. You have to wait until it has arrived and is clear of the single line.

So, sorry, no shunting towards a train standing on the single line at the home signal.

Hope that helps, even if it's not the answer you wanted!

Paul.

 

A Shunt Ahead a subsidiary arm below a Section Signal protecting a single line section could be used for any shunt move and not necessarily just one following a train which has already departed into the section.   However whichever line the shunt comes off (including the one where there is a Shunt Ahead subsidiary) the movement is dealt with as a Blocking Back movement and not as a Shunt Into Forward section - the latter was taken out of the GWR single line Signalling Regulations over a century ago as a Block Back serves, in effect, the same role.   Note that Shunt Ahead arms were only provided where such moves were a regular feature - an excellent example was Chipping Norton where there were regular run round movements which had to go onto the single line.

 

So you can make a shunt (depending on the gradient) into a single line section as a straightforward Blocking Back move or following the departure of a train into that section going away from the signalbox at which the shunt move will made (I once did that with a 10 coach train and had to show the Driver the relevant Instruction before he would move as he seemed to think he needed a token to allow the move!  The other thing you can do on a token section is make a shunt into it from both ends at the same time (unless, unusually, that happens to be specifically prohibited for whatever reason).

 

In any case the shunt would only go as far onto the single line as was needed to get clear of points etc and would have to return inside the Section Signal (officially) before proceeding through the section as a train - if that was needed).

 

Incidentally please note - one of the commonest errors in model railway signalling of the GWR or WR (and it happens elsewhere occasionally but is not so noticeable) is to put a Shunt Ahead arm on the wrong signal.  By its very nature it can only go below the signal which controls the entrance to the next section in advance (i.e. the Section Signal).   It cannot go below a stop signal which reads to another stop signal controlled by the same signalbox and applying to the same line in the same direction.

 

Have a read through this thread if you want to learn a bit more about GWR signalling -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48504-gwr-signals-and-where-they-go/

Edited July 29, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[sjrixon]

The people in the yard, are looking great! But what's the traction engine behind them? 

 

Your trees have inspired me to try and build some with seafoam, not something I've tried before. I need a nice big row behind my station to hide the backsceen, so should be ideal.

[KNP]

The people in the yard, are looking great! But what's the traction engine behind them? 

 

Your trees have inspired me to try and build some with seafoam, not something I've tried before. I need a nice big row behind my station to hide the backsceen, so should be ideal.

 

Thank you

 

The traction engine is from the Oxford Diecast range and is a Fowler B6 road locomotive called Titan.

 

Wish you luck with the trees.

[KNP]

Well this is fiddly......one side done now.

I sort of do a bit, than let it glue as I was finding I was knocking the previous window out of alignment.

Using Deluxe Glue 'n' Glaze - decided on that as I can, when it's set, peel any overspill off with a cocktail stick.

 

Front cabs going to be interesting as I can't lay the coach on it's side to do them........thinking cap on!!!!

 

 

Having to do quite a bit of filing because of the small tolerances involved even a coat of paint causes a problem.

 

Lovely product with beautifully clear and distortion free glazing...

 

Will post finished result

 

 

 

[Limpley Stoker]

Well this is fiddly......one side done

 

Lovely product with beautifully clear and distortion free glazing...

 

Will post finished result

Speaking from experience I bet you won't bother with the toplights! Edited July 30, 2017 by Limpley Stoker

[KNP]

Speaking from experience I bet you won't bother with the toplights!

 

Funny you should mention that but I have fitted two and thought no they look better without them.

So they have been removed, opening tidied up and that's how they will stay.

[KNP]

Windows finished and cleaned up.

Just need to get rid of the dust that seems to be stuck to the coach via static - clean one bit and whoosh some more appears.......

 

Left toplights off as mentioned in earlier post as they looked wrong somehow.

 

Roof not fixed as I will be adding passengers and a driver/guard (when it arrives) hence the gaps along the gutter line as just rested on for these pictures.

 

 

 

 

Lost some of the white metal pipework - well I did start this model way back in 2008.......parked it (well hibernated seems a better description) until I got a 0-4-2T that worked, which I now have thanks to my Hatton's model but during that time lost some parts along the way.

 

Dart Castings will supply them just got to work out which ones are missing and let them know.....next job.

Edited July 31, 2017 by KNP

[St Enodoc]

Windows finished and cleaned up.

Just need to get rid of the dust that seems to be stuck to the coach via static - clean one bit and whoosh some more appears.......

 

Left toplights off as mentioned in earlier post as they looked wrong somehow.

 

Roof not fixed as I will be adding passengers and a driver/guard (when it arrives) hence the gaps along the gutter line as just rested on for these pictures.

 

IMG_3112.JPG

 

IMG_3114.JPG

 

IMG_3115.JPG

 

Lost some of the white metal pipework - well I did start this model way back in 2008.......parked it (well hibernated seems a better description) until I got a 0-4-2T that worked, which I now have thanks to my Hatton's model but during that time lost some parts along the way.

 

Dart Castings will supply them just got to work out watch is missing and let them know.....next job.

Oi mister, someone's nicked yer injin...

[KNP]

Oi mister, someone's nicked yer injin...

 

No.....it's intentional

They're experimenting with a new form of auto-slip-coach to see if it can run from Little Muddle to Encombe Station but it appears to have run of puff on the viaduct!!!!!!

Edited July 31, 2017 by KNP

[ATT]

Oh my, how I haven't noticed this thread before? Excellent modelling! Will start reading from the page one immediately.

[MANTY1]

Windows finished and cleaned up.

Just need to get rid of the dust that seems to be stuck to the coach via static - clean one bit and whoosh some more appears.......

 

Left toplights off as mentioned in earlier post as they looked wrong somehow.

 

Roof not fixed as I will be adding passengers and a driver/guard (when it arrives) hence the gaps along the gutter line as just rested on for these pictures.

 

IMG_3112.JPG

 

IMG_3114.JPG

 

IMG_3115.JPG

 

Lost some of the white metal pipework - well I did start this model way back in 2008.......parked it (well hibernated seems a better description) until I got a 0-4-2T that worked, which I now have thanks to my Hatton's model but during that time lost some parts along the way.

 

Dart Castings will supply them just got to work out which ones are missing and let them know.....next job.

Have also got one of these Airfix, I think.

Have purchased flush windows and also mine has the Dart cast fittings underneath, been in storage for a long time and find that the bell has gone astray.

Does anyone make one ?

This layout is amazing, so enjoy watching developments.

[KNP]

Have also got one of these Airfix, I think.

Have purchased flush windows and also mine has the Dart cast fittings underneath, been in storage for a long time and find that the bell has gone astray.

Does anyone make one ?

This layout is amazing, so enjoy watching developments.

 

Thank you.

This is a Dapol one circa 1998 - still has the price on the box of £8.70....!!!!

I have fitted the majority of the Dart Castings kit DK1 but lost some of the white metal buffer beam bits over the years, just waiting to hear back from them about cost to produce just these parts. I have also fitted S&W couplings to the loco end but just the loop at the driving end so not all the fittings can be used.

With regard to the bell can't immediately think of any one but I would start with a nautical accessory website and see if an alarm bell from a warship model would suffice - for example.

Edited August 3, 2017 by KNP

[KNP]

Anybody lost an umbrella?

 

Whilst the porter was tidying up Encombe Station bay platform he found it leaning against a crate that was waiting for collection........!!!

 

 

No name or details found in it so it will go into lost property for now until the owner turns up looking for it.

 

If you think you know who it belongs to I'm quite happy to pass on any message to the Station Master.

 

 

[Stubby47]

Black, full-bodied, handle like a duck's head...?

 

No idea,  sorry.

[KNP]

Black, full-bodied, handle like a duck's head...?

 

No idea,  sorry.

 

Thanks for the most helpful information, I will pass this on so you can be crossed off the list.

Edited August 3, 2017 by KNP

[Andrew P]

Anybody lost an umbrella?

 

Whilst the porter was tidying up Encombe Station bay platform he found it leaning against a crate that was waiting for collection........!!!

 

IMG_3131.JPG

 

No name or details found in it so it will go into lost property for now until the owner turns up looking for it.

 

If you think you know who it belongs to I'm quite happy to pass on any message to the Station Master.

It's been raining all day today, so I think it's mine if its Black!!!!!