Smart Meter = smart move?

[caradoc]

16 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Had smart meters fitted about 2 years ago. If only to save having to read them periodically.

 

Swapped to another energy provider about 3 months ago and got asked for meter readings.

"Why"? I asked

"Because it's not our smart meter" was the reply.

And they want monthly readings

 

Then they informed me that when they eventually get around to supporting smart meters, they will have to come and fit them as it's likely that those fitted won't be to their specification.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Given that we are constantly encouraged nowadays to change suppliers to get a better energy deal, why on earth was it not a fundamental requirement that once installed the smart meter should operate with any supplier ? It really is beyond belief (or perhaps not, on second thoughts).

 

[steve W]

 

Quote

Given that we are constantly encouraged nowadays to change suppliers to get a better energy deal, why on earth was it not a fundamental requirement that once installed the smart meter should operate with any supplier ? It really is beyond belief (or perhaps not, on second thoughts). 

 

You would have thought so...but don't forget this is a government driven initative.

From my post earlier in the thread:

 

The UK is the only EU country where the electricity retailer (who are mainly accountants and sales people)  rather than the distributor is responsible for the role out of these infernal things.

The UK versions are more complicated than those used in most other places as the government of the day  (Dave & George) demanded greater amounts of data to be provided;  this is where the stories of variable tarrifs come from; changing cost based on the time of day and overall system demand - use your power at a low tarrif time, rather than peak, and the distributors won't  need to so urgently to upgrade their sagging networks, the windmills off-shore don't get out of breath and the gov  can  crow about our green credentials.

EU energy surveys into the concept and cost / benefit analysis found that no EU country other than Spain was able to justify the wholesale roll out of Smart meters. (and as far as I know most are not, excepting Spain who had good technical reasons to do so) In the UK the gov will not publish these reports and is pressing ahead regardless.

The retailers are responsible for a high percentage completion by 2020 with penalties if they don't make it, hence the wholesale advertising  and in my opinion, some false advertising. They all seem to source their own meters and as long as the meter met their data control requirements for billing, that was it.

Somewhere, the project appears to have failed to take note that the intention was for all meter data to be handled by a single government computer system which would/will/ maybe deliver it to the relevant retailers for billing, grid distributors for patterns of usage etc.  Supplier switching should be easier as it would just require a code to switch the routing of the billing data from A to B on a given date .

The first  generation of meters were not designed to be remotely upgradeable - communication is one way only. If this deficiency cannot be solved then most meters will need to be exchanged for a Mk2 model. I'm not sure how this project is going, it's been very quiet recently.

 

 

Cheers

(no longer involved directly in the electricity sector, info from trade/technical press)

 

[Siberian Snooper]

When I recently informed that my current fixed rate tarrif was due to end I rang them up to see what they could offer as a replacement, at the end of the conversation I was asked if I would like a smart meter and the answer was no, the lady said that was fine and since then I have received no further communication on the subject.

 

 

[kevinlms]

15 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

Given that we are constantly encouraged nowadays to change suppliers to get a better energy deal, why on earth was it not a fundamental requirement that once installed the smart meter should operate with any supplier ? It really is beyond belief (or perhaps not, on second thoughts).

 

I can see the problem, by deciding on a 'universal' standard, then you are probably making it impossible to upgrade the things. Just like a PC.

 

Yes, we have a similar mess in Australia.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎16‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 14:24, J. S. Bach said:

...I like to talk about my other hobbies but enough for now before I bore anyone to tears!

More, more! (I'd be so tempted to put a whole lot in series and see if they agree.)

[J. S. Bach]

On 16/05/2019 at 10:10, 57xx said:

 

I hope they cleaned all the carbon off the ill-fitting contacts have been arcing before they installed the new meter!

 

I am not sure. He did remove and replace the new meter several times, though. Bear in mind that it was a college student hired for the purpose and not a meter technician and probably did not know more than the basics of what he was doing. Anyway, he did let me have the old meter seal for my collection and "accidentally" dropped a new, unused one that he "forgot" to retrieve  on his way to the next replacement. So far the new meter seems to be working well, my bills have remained consistent with the old meter's billing.

Edited August 14, 2019 by J. S. Bach
to correct spelling error: "than" for "that"

[J. S. Bach]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

More, more! (I'd be so tempted to put a whole lot in series and see if they agree.)

Thread drift, I love it!

Insulators (vaguely related to smart meters):

 

 

 

Telephones:

 

 

And, of course, trains:

O:

HO:

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by J. S. Bach

[Metr0Land]

I'm with SSE.  Back in April I rang them to take my late wife's name off the account and to ask them to stop pestering me with so-called smart meter 'encouragement'.

 

In today's post (you're getting ahead of me here aren't you) was yet another 'book your smart meter now - we're in your area soon' type doggerel.

 

As I had an odd hour free, I rang them and spoke to an apologetic lassie who confirmed I had indeed requested they stop all marketing and they had actioned it but..... it sometimes takes 8 weeks to implement but of course well over 8 weeks have elapsed.  She asked if I minded holding on whilst she got on to the relevant team.  About 8 mins later she came back and with no surprise to me they weren't answering.  She asked if I minded holding on further and I declined and asked her to do whatever she needed to do after the call.  It was an 0345 number so not hugely expensive but I wanted to get on.

 

What she did do was to register a complaint and give me a £20 goodwill refund against my account.

 

Now..... should I start looking forward to them continuing to pester me as it would mean more credit in my account?

 

 

[duncan]

yes     

[jbqfc]

i am with Scottish power  i have to put in meter readings every 3 mouths i get a email reminder the week i need to put them in 

but this mouth i don't get a reminder but i get an estimated bill in stead and a is putting your meter reading hard work get a smart meter save the hassle book you appointment now type email

no i want one even less now i have made a note of when to put in my readings so i cannot pull that one again 

 

John 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I am with EON, and much enjoying the smart meter as mentioned before. No greater stimulus to wifely energy saving has ever been known. Now, earlier this week came a knock at the door and there was a man - from far oop North - "coom to read meters please", to do with some sort of sampling to ensure the smart meters are indicating correctly. Happily ours is.  I would imagine the implication of this checking might be that some possibly are not?

 

In other news, he's going to have himself a model railway when he retires this winter. (I had a loco being weighed sitting on the kitchen worktop adjacent the smart meter.) He's already bought a Stanier 5MT as his uncle was on those. The daughter is getting married soon and he's declared his rights to the vacated room. And he knows the location he wants to model but the name has flown right out of my head. I then demonstrated this DCC thing he had heard so much about.

[JJGraphics]

We're with e.on and when we changed tariffs several months ago they started pestering about Smart Meters. I very firmly told them I DO NOT WANT A SMART METER and said that they may not to call me about the matter again. About ten days later we got another call. I firmly told them that they had been told not to call me about Smart Meters and stated that if they called me about it again I would report them for harassment.

 

Not a word since then . . .

 

John

[TheQ]

Strangely we had a meter man come a read the meter in the mobile home last week.  This is extremely rare maybe once in three years.  This will lead to a refund,  they generally increase the bill Every year as they don't believe how little we use in the mobile home.  Especially as last year my parents were not well enough to visit .

I think I've  mentioned it before but mobile phones don't work here.

The mobile home is beyond the range of wifi, and the house meter is in a brick built cupboard it's doubfull wifi will work there. 

[boxbrownie]

21 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Strangely we had a meter man come a read the meter in the mobile home last week.  This is extremely rare maybe once in three years.  This will lead to a refund,  they generally increase the bill Every year as they don't believe how little we use in the mobile home.  Especially as last year my parents were not well enough to visit .

I think I've  mentioned it before but mobile phones don't work here.

The mobile home is beyond the range of wifi, and the house meter is in a brick built cupboard it's doubfull wifi will work there. 

Much the same issue here, no phone coverage on 70% of our property which includes the front drive area........big hill behind, sea and cliff at the front...unless they want to stick a mast on Eddystone lighthouse it ain’t ever gonna work 

[Bernard Lamb]

I have in the past ignored the requests to install smart meters, but finally I gave in.

I am with EON.

They turned up on time one day last week and the fitter looked at the gas meter. I will have to remove that old lead pipe he said.

The pipe comes out at an angle. I will have to fit 45 degree bends he said. I do not have any in the van he said.

He contacted another fitter who was about three miles away and went to collect another couple of 45 degree bends.

About 45 minutes later he was back.

Before starting work he checked the electricity meter that is in a different place to the gas meter.

Oh, he said. The black box on the end of the in conduit is too high and there is not enough room to fit the new smart meter he said.

The contractors who deal with the street side of the supply will have to move it he said. 

However if I call them I will have to pay and it will be expensive. He said that he would call them and that they would then contact me.

I then need to make  a new appointment to have the smart meters fitted he said.

So far no call from the mains people.

I did get an email from EON asking why I failed to let the fitter in at the appointed time to change the meter.

I explained the problem to them but so far no response.

I am inclined to tell them to stuff it if they ask again.

It did provide me with an opportunity to sort out the cupboard and get rid of various shoes and the odd broken umbrella.

To any one still in doubt. Keep well away from the things, particularly so if you live in an older house.

Bernard

 

[APOLLO]

Read this government report, published today (I've already posted a link in the EV thread).

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmsctech/1454/1454.pdf

 

Page 95 / 96

 

199. The roll-out of smart meters is one important enabling component of a flexible energy system that can match demand to supply, allowing increased deployment of intermittent renewable power generation. However, the Government’s roll-out is severely behind schedule, in part because the original scheme had fundamental design faults, as highlighted by our predecessor Committee and the then Energy and Climate Change Committee. The Government must ensure that it takes all reasonable steps to achieve a national roll-out of smart meters as soon as possible. In order to reduce consumer resistance to smart meters, the Government should run public engagement initiatives to raise public awareness that by having a smart meter installed, consumers can contribute to long-term reductions in the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions. Ofgem should require energy suppliers to collect and publish data on consumer acceptance rates for smart meter installation, and the reasons given by consumers for rejecting a smart meter. The Government should then be ready to act on this information to drive greater installation rates of smart meters, for example by introducing a consumer incentive mechanism. It should also require installation of a smart meter in properties without one whenever the owner or renter changes.

 

200. Market-wide half-hourly settlement of energy consumption costs will incentivise energy suppliers to offer tariffs that reward consumers for using energy when it is abundant, helping to enable higher levels of intermittent renewable power generation. However, Ofgem has highlighted the dependence of market-wide half-hourly settlement on widespread smart meter deployment. Given the low current uptake of smart meters, this indicates that there could be very significant delays in the introduction of marketwide half-hourly settlement and the benefits of widespread ‘smart’ tariff adoption. Ofgem should clarify what it determines to be the critical mass of smart meters required for market-wide half-hourly settlement. Since the introduction of market-wide half hourly settlement will help to catalyse smart meter take-up, Ofgem should not set an overly stringent critical mass, and should be prepared to recover the costs of incomplete smart meter deployment from the suppliers of those consumers who do not have smart meters (in a way that protects vulnerable consumers).

 

Big brother tactics ahead - then peak pricing.

 

Brit15

[BernardTPM]

Just the kind of thing they never really mention when plugging smart meters - but no surprise. Without this being made clear the whole thing is quite deceitful.

[Dave John]

Ring ring. 

 

" We are your electricity supplier , you should get a smart meter to save you energy" 

( Translation , so that we or the government can turn your supply off if you are not rich ) 

 

" Ah but if I stay in all day the fitter will turn up and say that he can't fit one because the installation is substandard" 

( Translation , he has been trained to fit meters on a series 7 cablehead and wouldn't know a 6mm pyro incomer if it fell out of a tree in front of him ) 

 

" Our fitters have been trained to the highest standard" 

( Translation , nope, its subbed out to some firm you have never heard of) 

 

"Ok , so if I stay in all day and he says its a substandard incomer you will refund me 30 years of standing charges for supplying me a substandard supply ? "

( Translation , sod off  ) 

 

" er.... " 

 

Silence.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dave John

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

On 15/08/2019 at 21:06, Bernard Lamb said:

I have in the past ignored the requests to install smart meters, but finally I gave in.

I am with EON.

They turned up on time one day last week and the fitter looked at the gas meter. I will have to remove that old lead pipe he said.

The pipe comes out at an angle. I will have to fit 45 degree bends he said. I do not have any in the van he said.

He contacted another fitter who was about three miles away and went to collect another couple of 45 degree bends.

About 45 minutes later he was back.

Before starting work he checked the electricity meter that is in a different place to the gas meter.

Oh, he said. The black box on the end of the in conduit is too high and there is not enough room to fit the new smart meter he said.

The contractors who deal with the street side of the supply will have to move it he said. 

However if I call them I will have to pay and it will be expensive. He said that he would call them and that they would then contact me.

I then need to make  a new appointment to have the smart meters fitted he said.

So far no call from the mains people.

I did get an email from EON asking why I failed to let the fitter in at the appointed time to change the meter.

I explained the problem to them but so far no response.

I am inclined to tell them to stuff it if they ask again.

It did provide me with an opportunity to sort out the cupboard and get rid of various shoes and the odd broken umbrella.

To any one still in doubt. Keep well away from the things, particularly so if you live in an older house.

Bernard

 

 

10 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Read this government report, published today (I've already posted a link in the EV thread).

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmsctech/1454/1454.pdf

 

Page 95 / 96

 

199. The roll-out of smart meters is one important enabling component of a flexible energy system that can match demand to supply, allowing increased deployment of intermittent renewable power generation. However, the Government’s roll-out is severely behind schedule, in part because the original scheme had fundamental design faults, as highlighted by our predecessor Committee and the then Energy and Climate Change Committee. The Government must ensure that it takes all reasonable steps to achieve a national roll-out of smart meters as soon as possible. In order to reduce consumer resistance to smart meters, the Government should run public engagement initiatives to raise public awareness that by having a smart meter installed, consumers can contribute to long-term reductions in the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions. Ofgem should require energy suppliers to collect and publish data on consumer acceptance rates for smart meter installation, and the reasons given by consumers for rejecting a smart meter. The Government should then be ready to act on this information to drive greater installation rates of smart meters, for example by introducing a consumer incentive mechanism. It should also require installation of a smart meter in properties without one whenever the owner or renter changes.

 

200. Market-wide half-hourly settlement of energy consumption costs will incentivise energy suppliers to offer tariffs that reward consumers for using energy when it is abundant, helping to enable higher levels of intermittent renewable power generation. However, Ofgem has highlighted the dependence of market-wide half-hourly settlement on widespread smart meter deployment. Given the low current uptake of smart meters, this indicates that there could be very significant delays in the introduction of marketwide half-hourly settlement and the benefits of widespread ‘smart’ tariff adoption. Ofgem should clarify what it determines to be the critical mass of smart meters required for market-wide half-hourly settlement. Since the introduction of market-wide half hourly settlement will help to catalyse smart meter take-up, Ofgem should not set an overly stringent critical mass, and should be prepared to recover the costs of incomplete smart meter deployment from the suppliers of those consumers who do not have smart meters (in a way that protects vulnerable consumers).

 

Big brother tactics ahead - then peak pricing.

 

Brit15

 

8 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Just the kind of thing they never really mention when plugging smart meters - but no surprise. Without this being made clear the whole thing is quite deceitful.

 

7 hours ago, Dave John said:

Ring ring. 

 

" We are your electricity supplier , you should get a smart meter to save you energy" 

( Translation , so that we or the government can turn your supply off if you are not rich ) 

 

" Ah but if I stay in all day the fitter will turn up and say that he can't fit one because the installation is substandard" 

( Translation , he has been trained to fit meters on a series 7 cablehead and wouldn't know a 6mm pyro incomer if it fell out of a tree in front of him ) 

 

" Our fitters have been trained to the highest standard" 

( Translation , nope, its subbed out to some firm you have never heard of) 

 

"Ok , so if I stay in all day and he says its a substandard incomer you will refund me 30 years of standing charges for supplying me a substandard supply ? "

( Translation , sod off  ) 

 

" er.... " 

 

Silence.

 

Well, I did warn you quite a few pages back!

Mass civil disobedience does work.

 

Mike.

[melmerby]

On 15/08/2019 at 20:06, Bernard Lamb said:

I have in the past ignored the requests to install smart meters, but finally I gave in.

I am with EON.

 

Bernard

 

Hi Bernard.

Have you seen my earlier posts?

 

I had an appointment to fit them in Feb 2016,  still haven't had a smart meter fitted.

It couldn't be done because the gas meter sat on a piece of asbestos approx 9" x 9" x ¼".

EON said they would send a specialist asbestos removal contractor to remove it. I said I would do it and put into a plastic bag for disposal. "Sorry you can't do that, I already seen it" the fitter replied.

Months went by, then years with me asking Eon what's happening with no result so I gave up on the idea.

2 ½ years later (September 2018) I was told my meters required inspection due to their age. A man came checked them, decide they both needed replacing and booked them for replacement (no comment about the obvious piece of asbestos the gas meter sits on!)

He said they would be providing non-smart meters as replacements. That was 11 months ago. Still no sign of them being replaced.

 

Organised? No way.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by melmerby
added precise dates

[Bernard Lamb]

33 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Hi Bernard.

Have you seen my earlier posts?

 

I had an appointment to fit them in Feb 2016,  still haven't had a smart meter fitted.

It couldn't be done because the gas meter sat on a piece of asbestos approx 9" x 9" x ¼".

EON said they would send a specialist asbestos removal contractor to remove it. I said I would do it and put into a plastic bag for disposal. "Sorry you can't do that, I already seen it" the fitter replied.

Months went by, then years with me asking Eon what's happening with no result so I gave up on the idea.

2 ½ years later (September 2018) I was told my meters required inspection due to their age. A man came checked them, decide they both needed replacing and booked them for replacement (no comment about the obvious piece of asbestos the gas meter sits on!)

He said they would be providing non-smart meters as replacements. That was 11 months ago. Still no sign of them being replaced.

 

Organised? No way.

 

Yes, but as a public spirited good citizen I thought I would try to do my bit for the planet.

I had not looked at what the meter sits on, but your comment reminded me that it does not sit directly on the floor boards.

it is just as you describe. The fitter missed that one. I presume that if, a very big if, they ever come back then I will face the same situation that you did.

We could start a list of who has had to wait the longest.

Organised?  It is just one big joke.

Bernard

[caradoc]

My own experiences:

Npower: I ageed to have Smartmeter installed, fitter attended, took one look and said cannot fit due to location of gas meter. Recorded a 'Refusal to accept' which was not the case but all that his system would allow to be input.

Npower; Contacted me again, I explained the first event and that was that.

 

Eon: (after I changed supplier); Also wanted to fit Smartmeter, to be fair, after I contacted them on line and explained the situation i have had no further hassle. We will see what happens now !

 

[The Stationmaster]

SSE have rung and 'offered' a smart meter a couple of times (but not for some while now).  It seem that twice being told 'no' very firmly got the message through to them.

 

However reading Bernard Lamb's and 'Melmerby's comments above I suspect that it we did say yes we would very quickly be put into the 'too difficult' corner and ignored - the electricity meter is on an external wall at one side of the house, the feed-in meter for the solar panels is on the inside of the same wall about 18 inches below ceiling height alongside the consumer unit and the gas meter is at ground level adjacent to the front wall of the house but outside.  One set of solar panels produce electricity and get a feed-in subsidy (which allegedly smart meters don't properly take into account) while another set of solar panels heat water to reduce gas usage heating water.  

 

We reduce our consumption by the simple process of turning switches to the 'off' position and I don't need a smart meter to tell me which appliances etc consume the most electricity - the manufacturer of the appliances, light bulbs, and whatever told me that on the information leaflets/packaging.  And to be honest I can't see us cooking food or my wife doing the ironing in the middle of the night because the electricity is a few miniscule decimal points cheaper per kWh.

[melmerby]

37 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

SSE have rung and 'offered' a smart meter a couple of times (but not for some while now).  It seem that twice being told 'no' very firmly got the message through to them.

 

However reading Bernard Lamb's and 'Melmerby's comments above I suspect that it we did say yes we would very quickly be put into the 'too difficult' corner and ignored - the electricity meter is on an external wall at one side of the house, the feed-in meter for the solar panels is on the inside of the same wall about 18 inches below ceiling height alongside the consumer unit and the gas meter is at ground level adjacent to the front wall of the house but outside.  One set of solar panels produce electricity and get a feed-in subsidy (which allegedly smart meters don't properly take into account) while another set of solar panels heat water to reduce gas usage heating water.  

 

We reduce our consumption by the simple process of turning switches to the 'off' position and I don't need a smart meter to tell me which appliances etc consume the most electricity - the manufacturer of the appliances, light bulbs, and whatever told me that on the information leaflets/packaging.  And to be honest I can't see us cooking food or my wife doing the ironing in the middle of the night because the electricity is a few miniscule decimal points cheaper per kWh.

Precisely, only those who are wasteful will really notice any difference if they are bothered to act on the information the smart meter gives them.

 

Some years ago I went around checking the consumption of various items with a power meter.

There were some surprises in the consumption in use and standby.

A large screen TV was (IIRC) about 120W when on but only some 200mW when in standby a Humax set top box was a few tens of watts when on but again only milliwatts when in standby, however a Sky box still consumed 22W when in standby.

Sky claimed their boxes needed to be left part on to do any updates however the Humax box managed OK without.

[SHMD]

16 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Read this government report, published today (I've already posted a link in the EV thread).

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmsctech/1454/1454.pdf

 

Page 95 / 96

 

199. The roll-out of smart meters is one important enabling component of a flexible energy system that can match demand to supply, allowing increased deployment of intermittent renewable power generation. However, the Government’s roll-out is severely behind schedule, in part because the original scheme had fundamental design faults, as highlighted by our predecessor Committee and the then Energy and Climate Change Committee. The Government must ensure that it takes all reasonable steps to achieve a national roll-out of smart meters as soon as possible. In order to reduce consumer resistance to smart meters, the Government should run public engagement initiatives to raise public awareness that by having a smart meter installed, consumers can contribute to long-term reductions in the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions. Ofgem should require energy suppliers to collect and publish data on consumer acceptance rates for smart meter installation, and the reasons given by consumers for rejecting a smart meter. The Government should then be ready to act on this information to drive greater installation rates of smart meters, for example by introducing a consumer incentive mechanism. It should also require installation of a smart meter in properties without one whenever the owner or renter changes.

 

200. Market-wide half-hourly settlement of energy consumption costs will incentivise energy suppliers to offer tariffs that reward consumers for using energy when it is abundant, helping to enable higher levels of intermittent renewable power generation. However, Ofgem has highlighted the dependence of market-wide half-hourly settlement on widespread smart meter deployment. Given the low current uptake of smart meters, this indicates that there could be very significant delays in the introduction of marketwide half-hourly settlement and the benefits of widespread ‘smart’ tariff adoption. Ofgem should clarify what it determines to be the critical mass of smart meters required for market-wide half-hourly settlement. Since the introduction of market-wide half hourly settlement will help to catalyse smart meter take-up, Ofgem should not set an overly stringent critical mass, and should be prepared to recover the costs of incomplete smart meter deployment from the suppliers of those consumers who do not have smart meters (in a way that protects vulnerable consumers).

 

Big brother tactics ahead - then peak pricing.

 

Brit15

 

So the ulterior motive, (that we suspected all along), has now been officially published.

Thanks for that Apollo.

 

This is the phrase to worry about :-

“The roll-out of smart meters is one important enabling component of a flexible energy system that can match demand to supply”.

Let me translate that into English :- "Smart meters are what is required to force consumers to reduce demand when supply is short".

...and the tool to enable this is variable 1/2 hourly pricing made possible by “smart” meters recording when you use electricity as well as how much.

 

So, if the 1/2 hourly pricing had been in place during the recent power-outage, how much would the price/unit had to have risen by to match/force "demand to supply” levels?

 

...and how many would not have been in a position to do anything about it (even if they had “smart” meters) with suppliers communicating instantly with bill payers currently in the bath, on the phone, on a plane, in a meeting, no battery, etc.

 

Imagine the road chaos if a large percentage of drivers all of a sudden had to fiddle with their phones to reduce electrical demand at home due to a sudden price hike?

 

 

Kev.