Class 205 in Conjunction with Kernow Model Shop

[Bulleidboy]

i assume these  never ran   as  two car units   toigether  2 x2 cars i mean   to make a 4 car????  any help will be appriciated  cheers

I've found three example photos of 2 x 2H units in "Southern Region DEMUs" (by K. Robertson & H Abbinnett).

 

They are a bit limited by time span and all have unit 1103 leading and no mention of the second unit:-

 

At Fullerton Junc (summer 1957) - training / test run

At Fratton (18/09/57) on a Salisbury - Portsmouth train

At Redbridge (03/01/59) on an Andover - Romsey - Soton Terminus train

 

Mike

[Gwiwer]

As built the units were 2-car and usually ran singly.  They were paired on uncommon occasions either because the train was due to divide en route (there have been times when this was done at Fareham for example) or for stock balancing purposes.  Capacity issues led to the centre trailers being ordered so there might also have been some peak workings where pairs of 2-car units were seen.

 

The quartet of 2H units which never gained a centre car were normally allocated to the Southampton - Alton service (three units for three diagrams) and one on the Hastings - Ashford line after its use to Lydd Town ceased.   As such they would not have run paired under normal circumstances.

 

In their latter days 2 2-car units could have run together but was avoided so far as possible owing to the shortage of accommodation this would have given rise to.  Two 2-car units together did not occur across Romney Marsh AFAIK as for most of the time one 2-car unit and one 3-car unit provided the service. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Gwiwer

[steve1023]

Did the Green Thumper (without yellow V) ever appear as a 3H unit? I'm no expert in this field, maybe someone more knowledgeable can advise.

 

Diesels in Wessex - Ian Allen - Page 16 - A unit at Eastleigh - hard to see unit number but book believes its 1103 in plain green, no V as a 3 car unit.

 

EDIT: Before anyone jumps up and down and complains that Kernow got it wrong, the units did, on occasions, temporarily lose centre cars for various reasons (such as works attention). I believe I read somewhere that Kernow had a photo of 1115 with the orange 'V' running as a two-car unit. Certainly a few others were temporarily run as 2H when they were supposed to be 3H, even back in the 1960s.

 

You probably read it on these pages somewhere. Same book as above - page 17 has unit 1115 running as a 2 car unit at Ropley with the V - picture dated 03/11/63.

 

Steve

[tender]

Diesels in Wessex - Ian Allen - Page 16 - A unit at Eastleigh - hard to see unit number but book believes its 1103 in plain green, no V as a 3 car unit.

 

Steve

Thanks for the confirmation Steve, all I need now is a suitable donor for the centre car (doesn't look like Kernow will be releasing one anytime soon) , can anyone advise a suitable candidate?

[Stevelewis]

Can any one  that  has  purchased  a 205  with  sound  comment  on  the  sound, I beleive  there  were  some  earlier negative  comments, but now  perhaps  as there are  more users  of  sound fitted  units  the  overall picture  may be different? 

[Ceptic]

Thanks for the confirmation Steve, all I need now is a suitable donor for the centre car (doesn't look like Kernow will be releasing one anytime soon) , can anyone advise a suitable candidate?

 

Hi tender.

 

If you're looking for RTR,  then Replica's loco hauled 64' suburban 2nd. is the only option.  Even this needs quite a bit of work to get it to blend in. As can be seen from these pics, it runs too high on it's bogies, the roof needs smoothing and vents re-positioning, buffers removed and rubbing plate added, u/f equipment replacing ..aaaand,...painting to match... etc. etc.

Maybe DC Kits or Comet would be quicker ?.

 

 

All the best.

[roundhouse]

I have bought the individual parts from Replica so I can then build it u, altering it to suit and hopefully match the green. The roof is probably going to be the hardest part to match.

 

As to when I can find the time to do will be a different matter.

 

Ian

[Ceptic]

Yep, same 'ere.

 

As always, time is the bottom line.

 

All the best.

[griffgriff]

I have bought the individual parts from Replica so I can then build it u, altering it to suit and hopefully match the green. The roof is probably going to be the hardest part to match.

 

As to when I can find the time to do will be a different matter.

 

Ian

I don't think you have to worry about the roof*... providing you pick a 3H that's been recently stretched from a 2H as there are plenty accounts of trailers with a freshly painted light grey roof sandwiched between a couple of 'sooty' roofed cars.

 

* providing you modeling the appropriate era of course

[roundhouse]

It's more the replica moulded ridges that stand out against the Kernow unit!

[Ceptic]

It's more the replica moulded ridges that stand out against the Kernow unit!

 

Not only the ridges and colour. The vents, themselves, are less in number and spaced, across the roof, in line with those of the DMS and the DTC.

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class205_01.html

 

Regards.

[griffgriff]

It's more the replica moulded ridges that stand out against the Kernow unit!

sorry, I misread your meaning.

 

Cheers.

 

Griff

[rorz101uk]

Could a class 419 be able to multiple up with a class 205?

[phil-b259]

Could a class 419 be able to multiple up with a class 205?

 

No

 

The control systems fitted to the DEMUs were different to those fitted to the 1950s/60s EMUs (despite the various pipes on the ends looking the same) so the two could not be combined.

 

Later in their life there was one DEMU unit modified so it could in theory work in multiple with an EMU but I believe this was never actually done in service.

[tender]

While visiting the lakes earlier this month we happened to come across this on the Eden Valley Railway

 

 

They also have a 4CEP that they push around with a couple of MLV's.

 

Make you wonder what this lot is doing so far north until you realise how much they paid for them. Not much more than a sound fitted model.

 

I Now have a box of Replica bits for the centre car, but like others just need the time to build it.

 

Ray.

Edited August 22, 2013 by tender

[Xerces Fobe2]

Hi tender.

 

If you're looking for RTR, then Replica's loco hauled 64' suburban 2nd. is the only option. Even this needs quite a bit of work to get it to blend in. As can be seen from these pics, it runs too high on it's bogies, the roof needs smoothing and vents re-positioning, buffers removed and rubbing plate added, u/f equipment replacing ..aaaand,...painting to match... etc. etc.

Maybe DC Kits or Comet would be quicker ?.

 

P1011563.jpgP1011562.jpgP1011558.jpgP1011552.jpgP1011561.jpgP1011560.jpg

 

All the best.

Try Citidal Paints - Caliban Green a pretty good match for EMU green available from Games Workshop Edited August 22, 2013 by Xerces Fobe2

[Dogmatix]

The story so far (please correct me if I've missed anything):

 

Kernow has commissioned Bachmann to produce 2H models in: Green, Green with V, & Connex liveries only.

 

No all-blue, plain blue/grey or NSE blue/grey versions have been announced, planned or commissioned, let alone produced, even as limited editions.

 

A 3H was suggested and confirmed (with liveries unknown), but has not been announced.

 

A separate centre car (to strengthen existing 2Hs to 3H) was suggested but rejected (so as not to prejudice sales of the 3H).

 

At this time, further versions or liveries to those now available are unlikely to be forthcoming.

 

Correct?

[Red Fox]

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/61/Class_205_Thumper_Unit

 

There is your answer regarding what has been commission.

[Gwiwer]

As I understand it:-

 

Kernow commissioned Dapol to produce a 2H unit in plain green, green SYP, green FYE, blue FYE, NSE and Connex.

 

A commercial decision saw production switched to Bachmann and a further commercial decision determined that despite requests from some customers only 2-car units were commissioned.  A green with the unique (to this type) orange V variant was also added to the commission

 

After an extended delay the initial batch of green (plain and orange V) and Connex units arrived and Kernow MRC decided that they would retain advance orders for the other liveries but not accept any more until production was likely.

 

At no time that I am aware of has a centre car been discussed by Kernow MRC other than as a vague statement on their website at one time that further commissions might include a 3-car unit.

 

Given the extremely protracted history of the items to date and the fact that after almost five years there is no sign of the green SYP, blue or NSE units appearing (though they remain commissioned and apparently only awaiting a production slot) I am not holding my breath over a 3-car unit ever arriving nor of centre trailers being offered as a standalone item.  Which is a shame as sales deserved perhaps to be a little better and the service from Bachmann definitely so.  

 

Most of the units spent most of their lives with three cars and this is how many of us remember and might prefer to represent them in model form.  I have registered my interest in a blue SYP (white stock numbers) variant but don't realistically expect it to ever be offered.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Gwiwer

[Dogmatix]

Thanks for putting me right on this!

 

So green SYP, blue and NSE versions are still theoretically planned to follow, but on hold until further notice, and blue-grey is not planned.

 

And we can basically forget the 3H for the forseeable future.

 

Oh well...

[Gwiwer]

Blue-grey has never been in the frame since there is no record of a 2H in that livery ever having operated.  All the other liveries were carried by 2-car units either before augmentation (in the case of the green ones), because the unit number to be offered was never augmented (blue) or in later life when centre trailers were removed (Connex / NSE).  

 

The "missing" liveries are indicated by Kernow as still being planned and awaiting a production slot but "Not before 2014 at the earliest".  

 

I can understand the frustration this must cause to those who ordered in good faith quite some time ago and to those involved with the business where capital is tied up in a commission which cannot be recovered through sales for an unknown time into the future.

 

My personal opinion is that if a 3-car unit had been offered in blue or b/g from the outset then sales would have been good but I have every confidence that Kernow MRC has managed their budget as they saw fit and was unable to commit the funds to a 3H at that time.  I wouldn't want to speculate on whether or not we might ever see one offered but I still have my hopes.

[Downendian]

Well I placed my order for 2x2H all those years ago with the hope that a centre coach would be released. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have done this. I knew there was no guarantee only hope.

2x3H units were regular visitors to Temple Meads in the 1970s and 3H units were in the end far more numerous and widespread.

I think if Kernow were to commission a centre car it would be sound economic sense

(1) to those who will "upgrade" their 2H to 3H.

(2) those who only want to purchase a 3H and have passed on the 2H, I.e new customers.

 

Neil

[SRman]

Yes, I can see customers "mopping up" existing stocks of 2H units if they can buy a centre coach at the same time.

You can certainly include me in category 1!

[Gwiwer]

1.  Possibly.  I have a green "orange V" 2H which was excluded from the original commissions because at the time no evidence had been found by Kernow MRC of a 2-car unit carrying that livery.  It was suggested that they gained the V at the same works visit as they had the trailer inserted.  Subsequently at least one unit has been shown to have run as a 2H with a V and this is the one offered by KMRC.  I'm not bothered whether or not a centre car is ever released for this as a 2-car units suits my purposes perfectly.

 

2.  Definitely.  As noted above I would willingly take an early blue SYP version but would also seriously consider a blue FYE if offered as a 3H or as a centre car to add to the 2H once they appear.

[Dogmatix]

I think if Kernow were to commission a centre car it would be sound economic sense

(1) to those who will "upgrade" their 2H to 3H.

(2) those who only want to purchase a 3H and have passed on the 2H, I.e new customers.

 

Neil

 

(3) to those who want to "upgrade" their 2EPBs to 4EPBs

Edited October 13, 2013 by Dogmatix