Class 205 in Conjunction with Kernow Model Shop

[cromptonnut]

Damn. I've just had to abort my pre-order for a NSE liveried thumper. Not having used Kernow before (or indeed ever pre-ordered anything before), the website states that I have to have my first order delivered to my card billing address for security reasons. Subsequent orders can be delivered to an alternative address. We're just about to put this house up for sale and I don't think we'll be living here when production arrives! Hmm. What to do? I guess I'll have to pre-order when we know our next address. Ah well.

 

Try phoning them and explaining the situation.  That far ahead, there will be people whose credit cards have expired as well.

 

It's a "fraud prevention" thing although I would expect that there are far fewer cases of model railway fraud using these methods than there are for mobile phones and other overpriced electronic items.  I've even had it with clothes ordered online.

 

You could, of course, place a small "first order" for a few essentials that you'll need for any layout (ballast, scenic etc) now for your "first order" then order your NSE Thumper after it arrives as a way round this if they won't budge on the original problem.

[Gwiwer]

Damn. I've just had to abort my pre-order for a NSE liveried thumper. Not having used Kernow before (or indeed ever pre-ordered anything before), the website states that I have to have my first order delivered to my card billing address for security reasons. Subsequent orders can be delivered to an alternative address. We're just about to put this house up for sale and I don't think we'll be living here when production arrives! Hmm. What to do? I guess I'll have to pre-order when we know our next address. Ah well.

 

 

Keep the order!!!

 

Update your address as soon as you know the new one and have your billing address changed over.

 

Email Kernow to advise your position - they've always been very understanding.

[Downendian]

£190 for two coaches with a motor is really a bit steep, even today. And with there being no likelihood of a centre car to do a 3H, I'll stick to buying DC Kits models as long as I can get my hands on them. At least then I can have a consistent finish across all cars in a unit, and across units where a two car might be operated.

I'm tending to come to this conclusion, especially looking at the current cost of the 2-EPB. Kernow have stated in their communication that they will consider a centre car if the sales of the 2H are good enough. I've always wanted the 3H, not the 2H, the latter was very restricted and never operated on Bristol-Portsmouth harbour services, which fits my modelling "geography". I think their sales would have been higher if they had commissioned the 3H in the first place, a prediction we will never be able to establish. Ordering a 2H on the wing of a prayer that a centre car might be following is a risk I'm not going to consider now. I had wanted to model 2x3H units as these operated into Temple Meads in the mid 1970s.

 

As the 3H has appeared in the 2014 wish list poll (just outside the top 10) perhaps Bachmann will consider this as a standard release, dependent on the agreement they have with Kernow.

 

Neil

[Netley]

I'm tending to come to this conclusion, especially looking at the current cost of the 2-EPB. Kernow have stated in their communication that they will consider a centre car if the sales of the 2H are good enough. I've always wanted the 3H, not the 2H, the latter was very restricted and never operated on Bristol-Portsmouth harbour services, which fits my modelling "geography". I think their sales would have been higher if they had commissioned the 3H in the first place, a prediction we will never be able to establish. Ordering a 2H on the wing of a prayer that a centre car might be following is a risk I'm not going to consider now. I had wanted to model 2x3H units as these operated into Temple Meads in the mid 1970s.

 

As the 3H has appeared in the 2014 wish list poll (just outside the top 10) perhaps Bachmann will consider this as a standard release, dependent on the agreement they have with Kernow.

 

Neil

You could realistically operate a 2H as travelled on extremely full 1122 all the way from Netley to Bristol TM in 1974 - I had to stand all the way to Salisbury!

[Butler Henderson]

You could realistically operate a 2H as travelled on extremely full 1122 all the way from Netley to Bristol TM in 1974 - I had to stand all the way to Salisbury!

Problem is the Kernow model is of the first batch whereas 1122 is a latter one with a completely different roof arrnagment, not impossible to resolve but certainly not a straight forward option.

[brushman47544]

Problem is the Kernow model is of the first batch whereas 1122 is a latter one with a completely different roof arrnagment, not impossible to resolve but certainly not a straight forward option.

All is not lost - Kernow's tooling options include the correct roof for 1122.

[Dogmatix]

I was at Warley (for the first time) and I asked a gentleman at the Bachmann stand about centre cars for the Thumper and for 4EPBs, and he told me that when - not if - Kernow do order 3H units from them, they will use the moulding for 4EPB. He seemed quite certain the this will come. But not next year...

[Guest CPRAIL3000]

I was at Warley (for the first time) and I asked a gentleman at the Bachmann stand about centre cars for the Thumper and for 4EPBs, and he told me that when - not if - Kernow do order 3H units from them, they will use the moulding for 4EPB. He seemed quite certain the this will come. But not next year...

and I was standing beside you speechless when he said it!!  Can I have a blue/Grey one please.

[cromptonnut]

I wonder why they can't do the 4-EPB first and sell the centre car separately to turn a 2H into a 3H?

 

Guess they want someone else to take the risk.

[Maltazer]

I wonder why they can't do the 4-EPB first and sell the centre car separately to turn a 2H into a 3H?

 

Guess they want someone else to take the risk.

 

The comment on Kernow's website regarding their 117 suggests they regret not doing the 3 car Thumper - "but being mindful of our Thumper experience we have decided to produce three car variants from the initial release"

 

However, I'd still be surprised to see a centre car sold separately.  I think the best we'll get is a 3H and/or 4-EPB as a complete set.

[brushman47544]

I wonder why they can't do the 4-EPB first and sell the centre car separately to turn a 2H into a 3H?

 

Guess they want someone else to take the risk.

 

Are the power and lighting circuits in the current 2H and 2EPB the same? If not, then any centre car will need to either allow for both types of circuitry or be converted after first use. Perhaps Bachmann and Kernow have agreed any 2H version will come first if Kernow have to pay for the centre car tooling.

[brushman47544]

I was at Warley (for the first time) and I asked a gentleman at the Bachmann stand about centre cars for the Thumper and for 4EPBs, and he told me that when - not if - Kernow do order 3H units from them, they will use the moulding for 4EPB. He seemed quite certain the this will come. But not next year...

 

I can't really see Kernow announcing a 3H before the next batch of 2H have arrived and been on sale for a while, otherwise more people may wait and Kernow finds itself with 2H units that aren't selling.

[Budgie]

Perhaps Bachmann and Kernow have agreed any 2H version will come first if Kernow have to pay for the centre car tooling.

I'm surprised Bachmann and Kernow don't get together and agree to share the costs of the tooling between them.

[Phatbob]

I'm surprised Bachmann and Kernow don't get together and agree to share the costs of the tooling between them.

 

That would be a pragmatic way forward, speaking as a potential customer for 3Hs and 4EPBs.  Problem is, it means getting commercial people and contracts and lawyers involved.  So I doubt that it would be as simple and straightforward as we might think.

[Gwiwer]

[mode=Devil's Advocate] But we don't know that it isn't happening, do we?  [/mode]

 

These sort of things often take place under conditions of strictest commercial confidence until an announcement is made.  

 

I'd like a blue 3H (blue syp and white numerals please - though maybe that's asking too much).  I'd like a centre trailer for my green 2H.  If someone was to crowd-source the funding I'd put my money up front. Let's see what eventuates knowing it may be a frustrating nothing at all.

[Downendian]

It's obviously not in too strict confidence otherwise the Bachmann reps would have been more guarded at Warley.

 

I'm more hopeful the centre car will now come, Kernow have now admitted on announcement of their 116/117/118 trio that the omission of thumper centre cars were a mistake - the bulk of these high density DMUs ran as 3-car like the Thumpers.

 

A strange situation for me - I'd rather hold off getting the 2H despite Netley's observation above one made it to Temple Meads

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12317-class-205-in-conjunction-with-kernow-model-shop/?p=1676217

 

I've waited long enough - a couple(?) more years won't hurt to wait for a 3H - plenty to model in the meantime. If Kernow were to say a centre car will definitely materialise I may change my mind.

 

Neil

[bigdaveadams1]

4 EPB would be immense, as would a 3H! I'm waiting on the NSE 2H already, currently saving up for its arrival.

[GordonC]

The question is, if a 3 car Thumper does get produced, what would the price be if its £190 for a 2H? At the best part of £100 per coach, you'd have to be looking at heading for £300. Ouch!!! Its not that long ago the 6 coach Blue Pullman was not an awful lot more than that

[Gwiwer]

The question is, if a 3 car Thumper does get produced, what would the price be if its £190 for a 2H? At the best part of £100 per coach, you'd have to be looking at heading for £300. Ouch!!! Its not that long ago the 6 coach Blue Pullman was not an awful lot more than that

 

Two points.

 

One is that the Blue Pullman was snapped up pretty darned quickly unless you were trying to sell them with custard all over the nose ends.

 

Two is that "the best part of £100 a coach" is not entirely fair when you consider one contains a motor while trailers, whether there be one or two of them, don't.

 

Yes the price might be north of £250 but put another way that's around £160 for a motor coach (broadly in line with the price of a Kernow-commissioned weathered Western for example) and £45 each for trailers which for specially-commissioned items of limited run is not a bad price and could be compared with the £100 asked for the Kernow-commissioned two-coach unpowered gate stock set.  Or £50 a coach if you prefer.

 

Our models are getting much more expensive.  I don't see commissioned items rising in price significantly more sharply than catalogue ones.

[Loconuts]

Two points.

 

One is that the Blue Pullman was snapped up pretty darned quickly unless you were trying to sell them with custard all over the nose ends.

 

Two is that "the best part of £100 a coach" is not entirely fair when you consider one contains a motor while trailers, whether there be one or two of them, don't.

 

Yes the price might be north of £250 but put another way that's around £160 for a motor coach (broadly in line with the price of a Kernow-commissioned weathered Western for example) and £45 each for trailers which for specially-commissioned items of limited run is not a bad price and could be compared with the £100 asked for the Kernow-commissioned two-coach unpowered gate stock set.  Or £50 a coach if you prefer.

 

Our models are getting much more expensive.  I don't see commissioned items rising in price significantly more sharply than catalogue ones.

Agree with this, just get used to the idea that one is going to pay a much more realistic price in the future.  Gone are the pile it high and sell it cheap days.  The manufacturers are going to bring in smaller batches and sell at a more realistic price.

Coming from 'O' scale these prices for 'OO' are unrealistic and how the manufacturers make a profit is a wonder.  Check out the price of the Heljan coaches 'O' gauge with the price of a 'OO' coach.

 

Loconuts

[PenrithBeacon]

I think that if Kernow brought out the three carriage demu than I would be very tempted, not sure what livery scheme though, probably blue/grey or NSE.

 

Regards

[ColinK]

Full marks to Kernow, since ordering my Thumper I've moved house, changed job, changed email address etc. Plus there has been the change in liveries to be produced. Hence I had lost track of my pre-order. I sent off a email to Kernow and they soon replied having sorted it all out quickly and effeciently.

[33212]

Can't help,thinking that manufacturers box themselves into a corner by going into agreements with retailers as far as having ownership of the hardware i.e. tooling etc. With most loco types being manufactured, and in some cases more than one version being available, items such as the 3H, which once may have been considered a one off or specialist model, should now really be considered a mainstream item. That status could also apply to many other emu and sum types not even planned yet. The way to make money from the tooling is to have full control over it and have it in the catologue for years to come, just produce smallish runs of models, and rotate the livery each year, as other people like Roco and Fleischmann do. Some years, they even left the livery the same, just changed the running number.

 

I would prefer that retailers just do commissions of liveries, such as one offs, and leave the manufacturers to do the more run of the mill stuff. I appreciate that, in some cases, we would not now have some RTR models that we do if the above was applied..

 

Matt

[kintbury jon]

Over the Christmas period I succumbed to the sound fitted 205012 in Connex livery.  It is my first DCC item and I am delighted with it.  It is out of my era but it is a model I have been tempted with for some time.   

 

Does anyone have a rough idea as to when 205012 was repainted from NSE into Connex?

[Guest]

Does anyone have a rough idea as to when 205012 was repainted from NSE into Connex?

 

205028 and 205033 were painted into Connex livery in 1997 and others are mentioned being reliveried in 1998 and early 1999. This info is taken from:

http://www.bloodandcustard.com/hampshire001.html

There is mention of 205012 being reduced to 2 cars in October 1998, but no specific date for when it was reliveried. Extensive bodywork repairs had been carried out prior to it becoming a 2 car, so I'd have to hazard a guess that the repaint occurred at the same time as the repairs?