Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads

[Mark Saunders]

Is this trial just a way to say that we can now justify mega length vehicles and similar trailers!

[alfsboy]

Any thing that replaces an over fed newspaper reading pillock who just pulls out  just in front of you to overtake another truck , has my blessing .

[Baby Deltic]

And what about if a terrorist group uses an EMP weapon to fry the electronics in the lead vehicle and it 'loses it's mind'? A decent rearfacing magnetron hidden in the boot, deliberately driven in front of our of these trucks might be enough to damage the electronics and cause possible carnage.

What about a 'cash for crash' merchant who brake checks the lead vehicle and causes the drivers of the others to get pureed in their crushed cabs.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Baby Deltic

[The Stationmaster]

The bit I don't understand about this is quite how the 'platoon' is formed in the first place?  Presumably at some point the lorries have to get close enough for each other for the 'wire less' control system to engage and take command of the second and then the third vehicle (at which point the human driver of that vehicle can sit back and play video games etc).  But how and where does this happen?  Do the vehicles close up behind each other while moving on the motorway, without cars cutting in between them, or does it happen on a slip road - and in both cases they have to be moving while they join up as stopping is illegal.

 

I can't see how it can be done anywhere else - most motorway junctions are off roundabouts and many of those also have traffic lights so you'd need a clear run round the bends (can these remote controls do bends?) and through the lights; and just how many traffic light sequences allow three heavy lorries through at once?  I can see how the 'platoon' (bloomin' daft name) can be spilt while underway as the driver of the rearmost vehicle simply resumes manual control and slows down (resulting in other vehicles hitting his lorry from the rear?) but i still can't understand how they join up in the first place unless it happens while underway on the motorway.

 

Another conundrum is what happens with vehicles of unequal performance, especially when climbing hills?  No problem if the slowest vehicle is the one at the front but what if it's on the rear or in the middle and it can't keep up with the vehicle in front for whatever reason?

 

If someone involved in the trials at a practical level could actually explain how these things would work I'd be less inclined to dismiss the news as a way of drawing attention away from Bank Holiday congestion on the roads and engineering works on the rail network.

Edited August 26, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[Baby Deltic]

Of much more importance ........... how will these autonomous trucks pick up hitchhikers?

And will they have an automatic system to roll them in carpet and throw them in ditches after the fact?

[hmrspaul]

What an excellent discussion. I was really annoyed with the anodyne questions asked by the professional commentators on the TV and radio yesterday. They should have employed some of you. A lot of the comment was on the 10% saving on fuel &  therefore CO2 - which seems marginal compared to the risks involved - especially how other vehicles join motorways, overtake etc.

 

So, yes, I had many of the same thoughts.

 

But the one advantage could be the concept of the trucks coming from different sources being 'electronically coupled together' going to an out of town depot where the goods could be unloaded and formed into small loads for individual destination customers in an area. It is a concept York citizens have asked for, for years. Delivery to old cities such as ours is difficult - time limited with dozens of trucks, some far too large, all vying for space down one small medieval street before 10.00 curfew and destined to the same stores.

 

The concept of lorries all getting together on motorways appears to happen already. I witnessed dozens of DHL trucks all at one north of London service station one evening, partially blocking the exit roads. But they must have been there for a reason.

 

Paul

And yes I also think they are re-inventing the container train.

[royaloak]

Is this trial just a way to say that we can now justify mega length vehicles and similar trailers!

Agreed, this could lead to the conclusion that the second and third tractor units are not required because one tractor unit can pull three trailers with ease.

[PhilJ W]

If someone today can 'hijack' a cars electronics and take control from the driver is bad enough I would not like to be anywhere near these trucks.

[BG John]

Definition of a platoon from Wikipedia: "A platoon is a military unit typically composed of two or more squads/sections/patrols. Platoon organization varies depending on the country and the branch, but typically a platoon consists of around 40 to 50 soldiers."

 

So 3 vehicles don't really make a platoon, but a long freight train does!

[hmrspaul]

And will they have an automatic system to roll them in carpet and throw them in ditches after the fact?

I'm sorry you had such bad experiences of hitch-hiking. Some of the best memories of youth are the kindness of total strangers, and I'm sorry I rarely have the opportunity to give similar kindness now I'm in the driving seat.

 

Paul

PS Sorry completely OT

[Bernard Lamb]

I see the use of these being rather limited on current roads in the UK.

However with the introduction of road pricing, it starts to make more sense.

At present those proposing the idea are not publically making the connection.

Bernard

[rockershovel]

I don't see any particular, insoluble problems sorting out the loading of containers in yards, or offloading pallets

 

Major ports like Rotterdam already have fully automated loading, offloading and distribution of ships. Construction is cheap, and a lot of problems will be solved by redesigning the loading areas.

[Baby Deltic]

I'm sorry you had such bad experiences of hitch-hiking. Some of the best memories of youth are the kindness of total strangers, and I'm sorry I rarely have the opportunity to give similar kindness now I'm in the driving seat.

 

Paul

PS Sorry completely OT

I've never actually hitch hiked but I can appreciate the generosity of those who pick up hitch hikers.

[40F]

I always thought that the Faller road system could be developed further

[MarkC]

Just bacause you <can> do something doesn't mean that you <should> do it. This, to me, is a prime example.

[Legend]

The bit I don't understand about this is quite how the 'platoon' is formed in the first place?  Presumably at some point the lorries have to get close enough for each other for the 'wire less' control system to engage and take command of the second and then the third vehicle (at which point the human driver of that vehicle can sit back and play video games etc).  But how and where does this happen?  Do the vehicles close up behind each other while moving on the motorway, without cars cutting in between them, or does it happen on a slip road - and in both cases they have to be moving while they join up as stopping is illegal.

 

I can't see how it can be done anywhere else - most motorway junctions are off roundabouts and many of those also have traffic lights so you'd need a clear run round the bends (can these remote controls do bends?) and through the lights; and just how many traffic light sequences allow three heavy lorries through at once?  I can see how the 'platoon' (bloomin' daft name) can be spilt while underway as the driver of the rearmost vehicle simply resumes manual control and slows down (resulting in other vehicles hitting his lorry from the rear?) but i still can't understand how they join up in the first place unless it happens while underway on the motorway.

 

Another conundrum is what happens with vehicles of unequal performance, especially when climbing hills?  No problem if the slowest vehicle is the one at the front but what if it's on the rear or in the middle and it can't keep up with the vehicle in front for whatever reason?

 

If someone involved in the trials at a practical level could actually explain how these things would work I'd be less inclined to dismiss the news as a way of drawing attention away from Bank Holiday congestion on the roads and engineering works on the rail network.

Formed up at Service Stations? If successful I'm sure they will create marshalling stations . Hopefully it will never happen however. I just fear the traffic implications of masses of these convoys in the inside lane .

[Mark Saunders]

Formed up at Service Stations? If successful I'm sure they will create marshalling stations . Hopefully it will never happen however. I just fear the traffic implications of masses of these convoys in the inside lane .

 

I would like to know how you get three vehicles to change lanes safely when they follow each other?

 

Mark Saunders

[kevinlms]

Formed up at Service Stations? If successful I'm sure they will create marshalling stations . Hopefully it will never happen however. I just fear the traffic implications of masses of these convoys in the inside lane .

A Road Station? Or Lorry station? Thinking 'Train Station' options here!

[APOLLO]

Tried to get to Cheshire Oaks shopping outlet yesterday (Ellesmere Port near Chester)- The M6 was chokka south of Warrington (severe delays a bit further south), and M56 same, so at last minute we decided to turn left on the M56 past Manchester Airport to (the dreaded) Trafford Centre. Traffic was  fine on this bit, and approaching the Trafford Centre via the M60 from the south is far better than the other way (our usual route), parking is easier to find also. However on leaving to join the M60 north it was just absolute Chaos - well it was 5pm on a bank holiday Friday on what is stated to be one of the busiest stretches of motorway in Europe !! (what else could I expect ?).

 

As usual, white vans and artics constantly changing lanes made it very unpleasant, I just idle along in the inside lane in these conditions, go with the flow - I have no death wish.I wonder how people would react to platoons changing lanes in slow moving (angry driver) conditions ?

 

As usual its a fast race to the bottom for the average worker these days due to computerisation etc. (lorry drivers in this case). Platoons good for the environment ? Cheaper produce in shops ? - Cobblers, this type of thing is good for one thing only - lining the pockets of the 0.001% and those that facilitate them (you know, those we vote for every 5 years !!). You see these "people" quite simply never have enough - power and money that is. Their appetite for both is insatiable and will be satisfied by labour elimination.

 

I'm not a complete Luddite but driverless trains, lorries, cars, aircraft while all technically possible today - just what will life be like for those younger people today in 2040 and beyond ?- AND the poor sods will still owe £££thousands on their student loans, and will have little or no pension - many no house of their own also.

 

Platoons of lorries - such a sad thing to look forward too.

 

Brit15

[Peter Kazmierczak]

They could have a new concept of a marshalling yard near to a motorway. If they put one in Sheffield near the M1 they could call it something like,

I dunno, Tinsley. Or one near the M6 in Carlisle called maybe Kingmoor.

[kevinlms]

The bit I don't understand about this is quite how the 'platoon' is formed in the first place?  Presumably at some point the lorries have to get close enough for each other for the 'wire less' control system to engage and take command of the second and then the third vehicle (at which point the human driver of that vehicle can sit back and play video games etc).  But how and where does this happen?  Do the vehicles close up behind each other while moving on the motorway, without cars cutting in between them, or does it happen on a slip road - and in both cases they have to be moving while they join up as stopping is illegal.

 

I can't see how it can be done anywhere else - most motorway junctions are off roundabouts and many of those also have traffic lights so you'd need a clear run round the bends (can these remote controls do bends?) and through the lights; and just how many traffic light sequences allow three heavy lorries through at once?  I can see how the 'platoon' (bloomin' daft name) can be spilt while underway as the driver of the rearmost vehicle simply resumes manual control and slows down (resulting in other vehicles hitting his lorry from the rear?) but i still can't understand how they join up in the first place unless it happens while underway on the motorway.

 

Another conundrum is what happens with vehicles of unequal performance, especially when climbing hills?  No problem if the slowest vehicle is the one at the front but what if it's on the rear or in the middle and it can't keep up with the vehicle in front for whatever reason?

 

If someone involved in the trials at a practical level could actually explain how these things would work I'd be less inclined to dismiss the news as a way of drawing attention away from Bank Holiday congestion on the roads and engineering works on the rail network.

I can see another problem.

 

Lets assume for the moment that the 3 vehicles, can be driven quite safely automatically, on the motorway portion of the trip.

 

The real problem is, instead of needing 3 drivers each with a full shift. This 'system' will create 3 short trips from the departing points to a location where the 'platoon' can be assembled, where the drivers hand over their vehicles. This process will also require 3 drivers at the far end, to take to individual destinations. This will require 3 different drivers (obviously rhe original 3 will be at the starting end, so no good).

 

So instead of 3 drivers working, say 10 hour shifts (total 30 hours a day), they will now need 6 drivers for say 2 hours each (total 12 hours a day). If the drivers were used on a reverse trip each, then it would still only require a total of 24 hours combined.

 

So drivers are now only going to be part time drivers (casual?) and would presumably only be paid for the hours worked. So going to be hard on them all.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I think we need to bear in mind that these trials are a stepping stone on the way to fully autonomous vehicles. So whether these 3 lorry platoons have any real World commercial use themselves perhaps doesn't matter that much. Autonomous lorries, on the other hand, have plenty of uses. 

 

Another conundrum is what happens with vehicles of unequal performance, especially when climbing hills?  No problem if the slowest vehicle is the one at the front but what if it's on the rear or in the middle and it can't keep up with the vehicle in front for whatever reason?

That should be easy enough to cater for in the software - if the gap gets bigger, slow down the front (and possibly middle) vehicle ever so slightly. Remember that all three vehicles will be communicating with each other. 

 

If someone today can 'hijack' a cars electronics and take control from the driver is bad enough I would not like to be anywhere near these trucks.

The current crop of terrorists are reduced to running people over with hired vans, because they are too stupid to make bombs. I doubt it they'll have the skills to hack in to the onboard computers. 

[kevinlms]

 

The current crop of terrorists are reduced to running people over with hired vans, because they are too stupid to make bombs. I doubt it they'll have the skills to hack in to the onboard computers. 

Not so sure about that.

 

Driving vans into people, isn't just because they are stupid, more to do with how easy it is to do so. In fact some example, they don't need to hire a rental van, they can just use their every day car, it dose't matter with what the vehicle is, because they won't be driving it ever again, any way!

Edited August 26, 2017 by kevinlms

[F-UnitMad]

Any thing that replaces an over fed newspaper reading pillock who just pulls out  just in front of you to overtake another truck , has my blessing .

Ah, the great sweeping Stereotype lives on

 

See what I mean? Who you going to hate when there's no driver, & the truck still pulls out in front of you? (& only the Terminally Deluded will think it won't!!)

[Enterprisingwestern]

Who re-wrote the Highway Code to say that drivers don't have to be in full and complete control of their vehicle at all times?

 

Mike.