New RTR releases - is your purchase really necessary?

[Andy Hayter]

But how long do you wait?

 

How long to wait before building your own stock rather than waiting for a rtr version?

A good question and sod's law would say not quite long enough, you start the model and then Dapmannby announce it as rtr but so far I have been lucky.  2 x SECR brake vans from 1900/1910 vintage built from Parkside bits and no kit or rtr on the horizon,

one GCR 10t brake scratch built and the closest is a Mousa kit that has been on the stocks for at least 4 years.  The LYR coaches are still in their boxes (kits from Wizard and D&S) and so far no competition - but then that law says nothing will happen until I start to build them.

[Jol Wilkinson]

How long to wait before building your own stock rather than waiting for a rtr version?

A good question and sod's law would say not quite long enough, you start the model and then Dapmannby announce it as rtr but so far I have been lucky.  2 x SECR brake vans from 1900/1910 vintage built from Parkside bits and no kit or rtr on the horizon,

one GCR 10t brake scratch built and the closest is a Mousa kit that has been on the stocks for at least 4 years.  The LYR coaches are still in their boxes (kits from Wizard and D&S) and so far no competition - but then that law says nothing will happen until I start to build them.

 

Andy,

 

as I model the LNWR (and with P4 wheels/track) I have always built from kits as there has been no alternative, added to which I enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of making my own models.

 

I was interested in how long you felt you would be willing to wait. Of course, there is the  problem that when anyone builds their own model, then the RTR manufacturers will produce it, or so it seems. But given their rate of new model introduction (not just livery variations) and the concentration on locos, then I suspect that anyone waiting for a complimentary set of carriages for a particular period/livery might  be off better assuming it won't happen and rejoice if it does.

 

For many modellers though, it seems the idea of making their own stock to go with a RTR loco doesn't interest them and they would rather live in hope that a RTR version will arrive sometime in the future.

 

Jol

[Andy Hayter]

Jol

to be honest, and despite my post about hoping for models of stock that would fit with the pregrouping locomotives, when I buy the loco, I am already beginning to look at the options for stock to go with it when I order the locomotive.  This of course may be some years before it actually appears.

Are there kits available?

Do I have any scale drawings? - needed with a kit as well as scratch building.

If I don't have any drawings, is there a source - old model magazine or a book covering said stock?  If so I get it.

 

Prepared, it is then down to when do I have time to start modelling.  The physical availability of the model, or its pending physical availability, is often an incentive to push particular projects up the list.

[Karhedron]

For many modellers though, it seems the idea of making their own stock to go with a RTR loco doesn't interest them and they would rather live in hope that a RTR version will arrive sometime in the future.

In a perverse sense, the steadily increasing quality of RTR acts as a deterrent to kit-building. The gulf in quality between RTR items and your earliest attempts and kit-building can make the effort seem futile. My own kit-builds do not match RTR quality but I have been doing modelling of one sort or another long enough to be able to produce something that I find satisfactory at least.

[Andy Hayter]

I don't agree with that with respect to most rtr wagons, where the standard is generally dire.  There are I am sure exceptions, but generic 10ft wb steel underframe 4 wheelers with owners' logos that disappeared when the standards were 9ft wood underframe are legion.  Use of RCH 1923 designs for wagons purporting to be pre-grouping is another problem.

 

And building a wagon kit to a good standard is not difficult.  Many good examples exist in plastic and require few special skills to complete to a standard well beyond anything currently available as rtr.

[Zomboid]

The skill I lack in particular is painting. Given a decent run I can get some pre-moulded plastic bits off the sprue and stuck together (never tried rolling stock yet, but I can do buildings) in a manner that looks ok from a reasonable distance in certain lighting conditions.

But can I get paint on it and looking acceptable? 15 coats later, I am barely any closer to satisfied. And all I'm trying to do is brickwork and concrete, not lining a pre grouping carriage...

[Jol Wilkinson]

The skill I lack in particular is painting. Given a decent run I can get some pre-moulded plastic bits off the sprue and stuck together (never tried rolling stock yet, but I can do buildings) in a manner that looks ok from a reasonable distance in certain lighting conditions.

But can I get paint on it and looking acceptable? 15 coats later, I am barely any closer to satisfied. And all I'm trying to do is brickwork and concrete, not lining a pre grouping carriage...

 

Take a look at the POWsides range. Pre-painted and transfers already applied.

 

http://www.powsides.co.uk/

 

With regard to painting, I find brush painting with matt enamels isn't too difficult. With satin and gloss finishes for locos and carriages, then using an airbrush is,in my experience, the only way. Ian Rathbone's book is a very good guide.

[coachmann]

For me, railway modelling is just that, building things. I dont mean building locos or whatever just for the sake of it, but getting stuck in because that is what I do. I am certainly glad to be relieved of certain chores though, and take full advantage of ready-to-plonk track and in fact anything RTR where it fits in with what I am modelling. But I walked into 0 gauge with my eyes wide open and knew I was facing the task of making all the buildings, something I never particularly enjoy, so I got it over with as quickly as possible! Building coaches in this scale is also a time-consuming business so I am working on some short-cut ideas.

 

The biggest deterrent to building, be it kits of scratch, is people deciding things are too difficult even before starting. But it's all a matter of degree and it's no good criticizing each other. I would think the people making the RTR purchases consider they are necessary, me included.

[tomparryharry]

Are they really necessary? In some ways, yeas they are. The shunting puzzle goes out to a local show every year. I like to ring the changes. For 2018, it will be coal wagons. So that's 8 wagons, and a nice little 6 wheeler (steam or diesel, sometimes both). Oh! The drama!

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Captain Kernow]

The biggest deterrent to building, be it kits of scratch, is people deciding things are too difficult even before starting.

I would agree that the above is a factor, Larry, but I also think that the time taken to complete a kit build can also be a deterrent, for those who have limited modelling time available and want to get something done.

[Captain Kernow]

Interesting you are using a large retailer to offload your exces, my thoughts are I could get more through EBay despite the costs.

 

Edit : ok so I just looked again at my quote from a large retailer for my SR stock. I think I can still get a couple of hundred more than their offer after fees.

In my calculations I have factored in a monetary value (of sorts) against my time listing everything on EBay, associated fees and the sheer hassle of packaging everything up and getting it to the post office. I'd rather use the time to do something else!

[jjb1970]

In the true sense of the word, I'm not sure any model purchase is really necessary. Nobody needs a model train, we may want them, and have an intense desire for them but it's not genuine need. Which isn't to detract from the pleasure of indulging ourselves and splashing on stuff we enjoy (it'd be a rather dull and dreary life if everything we did was truly necessary and life was restricted to servicing the mechanics of existence). I probably spend far too much on models (my latest arrival is a really beautiful EMD FL9 in McGinnis NH colours, factory finished by Overland) but I recognise it's a hobby and as much as I whinge about certain aspects I also think if being cross about the late arrival of a model train is my biggest whinge in life then I can't complain about my lot.

[woodenhead]

Finally plucked up the courage and begun a clear out - too much can be as stressful as not enough.

 

So far it's my excess N gauge that's gone to auction - the main core of my N gauge stuff remains in boxes waiting for the next layout but there was a decent amount that was never going to get used so best get rid.  Once this lot has gone then I begin with the OO Southern BR Blue things, nearly threw them on this evening but thought better of it in terms of managing it all.

 

Not expecting a profit, I want to feel that I have control of this modelling malarkey and some cash in hand is always welcome.

 

Planned OO purchases in next 12 months looks like a Collett Goods, a Mogul, two cattle wagons, a Maunsell Restaurant car and possibly a 61xx - that should all be covered by sales and then some left over for perhaps some baseboards.

[tomparryharry]

I'm 'stood by' for a 61xx. I'd rather buy one 'good un' than the rather dated Airfix one. I'm content to await the Dapol version. If it's good, the money awaits....

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[woodenhead]

Just had a quick look on EBay, seems my latest N Gauge stuff is attracting attention and watchers so looking good for sales.

 

Seeing as I still have free listings for March perhaps I bite the bullet and get my OO on too.

 

This is very Therapeutic.

[The Johnster]

 

 

I'm 'stood by' for a 61xx. I'd rather buy one 'good un' than the rather dated Airfix one. I'm content to await the Dapol version. If it's good, the money awaits....

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

 

Cardiff Antiques Market (Royal Arcade) has an upstairs stall for trains and cars, and has a nice looking boxed Hornby example for £32.50, BR lined black with spoked pony and radials and not the Airfix pickup.

 

My own is an Airfix, much worked on but in original mechanical condition and below the footplate, referred to by my partner as 'the old man', currently in unlined green G W R initials livery and awaiting a set of number plates to convert it to 4145, a Tondu engine.  It has improved with age and is a very good runner, if noisy, though I rather like it's class 37 growl!.  It has glazing, cast white metal buffers, real coal in the bunker, an etched brass sliding vent for the cab roof, and a set of fireman's tools; the empty cab is partly hidden by a crew keeping a sharp lookout/gazing at the scenery.  It is running on borrowed time, though, as once the carbon brushes give out I doubt I will be able to replace them and it will become a shelf display model (I will never bin it; I am rather fond of it).

 

So, like you, I am hanging on for the Dapol, and resisting the temptation to buy the Antiques Market one.  I think this is the largest steam loco that Dap have attempted, but they will I am sure make a fair fist of it.  It will at any rate be better than the Airfix construction kit one that I 'motorised' with a Triang Black Princess chassis in my teens, pressed metal valve gear and LMS cylinders and all, only one of my crimes against modelling from those days!

[Steamport Southport]

Peter's Spares do carbon brushes for Airfix motors. They might be under Dapol or Hornby.

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

I'm starting to fill up my shed allocation of Western locomotives. I did intend to keep it a 100% tank locomotive depot, and so far, it stays that way. There's room for another 51/61xx, so I hope Dapol turn up trumps. Shapeways have a nice 17xx saddle tank at the moment, so I keep thinking about  the Blackmill diagram, and a couple of 6-wheel clerestories.

 

Mind you, if a 72xx comes along.... Or, an

 

I'll stop now. Still costing out my railway shed.

 

Ian.

[Chris M]

Quite a lot of what we spend in life isn't necessary. We don't need to go out for a meal or indeed buy a take away when we are perfectly capable of cooking a meal ourselves which would be cheaper. One of the great things about being lucky enough to have been born in the UK is that most of us are, compered to most of humanity, very rich and are allowed to spend our spare money to use as we please. Nobody can say buying a new model is necessary but all of us reading this thread regularly spend money on things that aren't absolutely essential to life. I choose to spend some of my spare cash on models. It is only necessary in that it keeps me happy. 

[grahame]

I would agree that the above is a factor, Larry, but I also think that the time taken to complete a kit build can also be a deterrent, for those who have limited modelling time available and want to get something done.

Sometimes, at least for me, the journey (the actual modelling time) is the most enjoyable, beneficial and therapeutic part of the hobby. There's no rush to get things finished and completed, although that, of course, brings pride and satisfaction in having made something.

 

G.

[grahame]

In a perverse sense, the steadily increasing quality of RTR acts as a deterrent to kit-building. The gulf in quality between RTR items and your earliest attempts and kit-building can make the effort seem futile. My own kit-builds do not match RTR quality but I have been doing modelling of one sort or another long enough to be able to produce something that I find satisfactory at least.

I'm not so sure that is much more than an excuse. Who is saying your own models have to match the quality of RTR, who is judging that?

 

Often what you make is not available RTR so there is no easy direct comparison. Take a pride in your own efforts and the more you make some modelling effort the better you will get.

 

I see the benefit of RTR in supplementing your own models. Not instead of or replacing them. And I find it much more enjoyable and interesting to see home made stock on layouts at exhibitions rather than a plethora of samey RTR straight out of the box.

 

G

[Craigw]

I'm not so sure that is much more than an excuse. Who is saying your own models have to match the quality of RTR, who is judging that?

 

Often what you make is not available RTR so there is no easy direct comparison. Take a pride in your own efforts and the more you make some modelling effort the better you will get.

 

I see the benefit of RTR in supplementing your own models. Not instead of or replacing them. And I find it much more enjoyable and interesting to see home made stock on layouts at exhibitions rather than a plethora of samey RTR straight out of the box.

 

G

 

 

Grahame, you sum it up perfectly.

 

I use RTR models when they fit in with what I want to model and I can adapt them to please me. What I don't do is let the RTR models dictate what I will model. RTR models are good, but they are not perfect. There are many compromises in them albeit many are obscured by very good paint jobs. I happen to enjoy building things and will always continue doing that. If you do not have a go at building models then you will never make your own models better. being unable to make a better model than RTR then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Craig W

[Chris M]

Back in the 1980s I could repaint a RTR loco and end up with something better than the original. Now when I repaint a RTR Model it is not as good as the original. That’s the reality for most of us. A problem with today’s high quality paint jobs is that I feel under much greater pressure to do a perfect job I order to keep the model nearly as good as it was when I bought it.

 

I will always buy rather than build where I can. Mostly all I do nowadays is add the details from the bag and add a bit of weathering.

[Chris M]

In both of these photos just one loco is a repaint in order to give me the set of locos I need to portray the time zone.

 

1968

 

1963

[grahame]

. . . when I repaint a RTR Model it is not as good as the original. That’s the reality for most of us. A problem with today’s high quality paint jobs is that I feel under much greater pressure to do a perfect job I order to keep the model nearly as good as it was when I bought it.

 

If you made the model it wouldn't have a RTR paint finish to start with. You put the pressure on yourself - no one is doing that or judging your efforts. There is no desperate 'need' to do a perfect job. But you will get closer with practice.

 

I find it odd that many model rail enthusiasts give up so quickly and get no enjoyment out of modeling. Those who play park and Sunday league football don't give up because they can't perform at professional levels. They continue to play at an amateur level and enjoy themselves, rather than deciding to give up and just watch Premier football on TV.

 

But horses for courses. Luckily we are individuals and not all the same. And it means, to me at least, that scratch-built effects will always stand out more, from an outstanding point of view, than RTR.

 

G

Edited March 3, 2018 by grahame