Falcon Brassworks

[cctransuk]

Since it seems that this subject has now been excised, we can only hope that Samantha was aware of the level of support for her before the curtains came down.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

PLEASE DO NOT POST IN RESPONSE - WE'LL ONLY GET CLOSED DOWN AGAIN.

Edited November 26, 2017 by cctransuk

[nigel newling]

Sorry John but I have to add my two-penneth.

 

I hope Samantha can rise above the unfounded criticisms she has received through the other thread. I thought all we potential customers for these kits were well aware of the state of the Falcon art work that she inherited and we continued to buy on that basis. It will be tragic if this range goes off the market due to the unacceptably expressed views of a very few ill-informed individuals.

 

Please Samantha, keep going, you have a lot of support here on RMWeb.

 

Nigel

[Guest Lyonesse]

Sorry John but I have to add my two-penneth.

 

I hope Samantha can rise above the unfounded criticisms she has received through the other thread. I thought all we potential customers for these kits were well aware of the state of the Falcon art work that she inherited and we continued to buy on that basis. It will be tragic if this range goes off the market due to the unacceptably expressed views of a very few ill-informed individuals.

 

Please Samantha, keep going, you have a lot of support here on RMWeb.

 

Nigel

Hear, hear.  Even as an etch-only, scratchbuilding aid, the Falcon Brassworks kits are valuable.  And as the other thread showed, before it was deleted, a lot of good models have been built using Jidenco/Falcon kits.  Let's hope Falcon do still continue.

[chris p bacon]

I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about, the website is still live

 

http://www.falconbrassworks.com

 

And it has the same contact details as Dart Castings.

[cctransuk]

I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about, the website is still live

 

http://www.falconbrassworks.com

 

And it has the same contact details as Dart Castings.

 

You clearly missed Samantha's e-mail to the effect that she would close down the Falcon Brassworks website imminently, due to derogatory postings on RMweb concerning the level of service that she was able to provide.

 

It was made clear that the only products that would in future be available would be the wagon etches; and those only via the Dart Castings stall at selected exhibitions. Previously, there was the prospect of much of the original Falcon range being re-introduced - including the locomotives.

 

I would direct you to the postings concerned - but the former thread was removed over the weekend, without explanantion.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[micklner]

I also never saw anything over the weekend, relating to the above information either.

 

I had a email from Samantha on Thursday stating the Loco etches I ordered would arrive in January. I have no PM's relating to the above info.

 

The Falcon site is still there, unchanged at the moment as well.

 

Something strange going on ? 

[cctransuk]

I also never saw anything over the weekend, relating to the above information either.

 

I had a email from Samantha on Thursday stating the Loco etches I ordered would arrive in January. I have no PM's relating to the above info.

 

The Falcon site is still there, unchanged at the moment as well.

 

Something strange going on ? 

 

Oh yes - and a deathly silence from the RMweb bunker. If only you could see the deleted thread, you would understand why some of us are so incensed!

 

Basically, two members who had not bothered to acquaint themselves with the circumstances under which Samantha was reinvigorating Falcon Brassworks, threw their dummies out of the pram because she wasn't able to provide box-shifter service.

 

This was done in such derogatory terms that Samantha announced the effective closure of Falcon Brassworks, as of this week; she indicated that she didn't need the hassle.

 

Quite a few of us expressed, in strong terms, our indignation that two insensitive members should have effectively closed down Falcon Brassworks - at which point the entire thread disappeared without explanation.

 

If you have read this thread from my OP, you know the rest.

 

So far, the Falcon Brassworks website has not disappeared, thank goodness; but I have placed a small order just in case.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited November 27, 2017 by cctransuk

[Tim Dubya]

What a shame, I haven't ordered very much from Falcon but what I did was excellent. I didn't mind waiting the very short 6 weeks to get my kits.
We need suppliers like Samantha and Falcon in the hobby for those of us who love to build kits. Kits of prototypes that the 'big boys' won't touch with a bargepole.

If you're reading this Samantha, I'm really sorry these comments on here forced you to shut up shop. The service I get from you is first class. Thank you for doing what you do!

Cheers

Dubya

Edited November 28, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[Retro_man]

Having received a PM from Samantha on the weekend confirming the etches for the L&Y Railmotor would be delivered - I was extremely pleased when the mailman delivered them (here in Canada) this afternoon!

 

I placed the order on the Falcon Brassworks website on October 25 2017 and paid by PayPal so it was only a month for delivery.

 

I would say that is excellent service considering the fact the etchings are produced to order and at least one week for the mail to get here.

 

The etchings are very crisp and have none of the discolouring that I have seen on previous Jidenco etches I have had.

 

I would like to compliment Samantha and her associates on the excellent service and product and hope she reconsiders closing down the website.

 

I have successfully built a Jidenco kit (Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0) previously so know exactly what to expect :-)

 

 

Steve

Canada

[chris45lsw]

What a shame, I haven't ordered very much from Falcon but what I did was excellent. I didn't mind waiting the very short 6 weeks to get my kits.

We need suppliers like Samantha and Falcon in the hobby for those of us who love to build kits. Kits of prototypes that the 'big boys' won't touch with a bargepole.

 

There really some massive a$$holes about that ruin things for everyone.

 

If you're reading this Samantha, I'm really sorry these fools forced you to shut up shop. The service I get from you is first class. Thank you for doing what you do!

 

Cheers

 

Dubya

Well I ordered two 'etches only' L&SWR coaches in October and was quite happy to wait 6 weeks as warned on the website.  In fact they came in about a week and I'm very satisfied with my purchase.  I'm sorry if this avenue is now closed and relieved that I ordered when I did and didn't leave it for 'another day'.

 

Chris KT

[chris p bacon]

There really some massive a$$holes about that ruin things for everyone.

 

And within a short time this thread is heading the same way as the other one. 

 

I did see and read the other thread and was rather disgusted. I am also not surprised it was deleted/hidden considering the content.

[Andy Y]

Oh yes - and a deathly silence from the RMweb bunker.

Quite simply it was one of my busiest weekends of the year and I hadn't got a spare hour to tidy up the mess. Why do you feel the need to be so derogatory too? Surely that's what you're criticising others of?

[kevinklein]

Quite simply it was one of my busiest weekends of the year and I hadn't got a spare hour to tidy up the mess. Why do you feel the need to be so derogatory too? Surely that's what you're criticising others of?

I can quite understand you closing the thread, it was getting pretty vitriolic, which on reflection won`t help Samantha at all... hopefully we can keep this thread to simply show our support for Samantha, and who knows, maybe something positive will come of it.

[Guest Lyonesse]

Quite simply it was one of my busiest weekends of the year and I hadn't got a spare hour to tidy up the mess. Why do you feel the need to be so derogatory too? Surely that's what you're criticising others of?

Maybe the thread can come back, minus the derogatory posts (and derogatory posters).  Many of the earlier postings, where people were showing some of the excellent models built from Falcon kits, were very interesting.

[MarkC]

Maybe the thread can come back, minus the derogatory posts (and derogatory posters). Many of the earlier postings, where people were showing some of the excellent models built from Falcon kits, were very interesting.

Totally agree with this.

[cctransuk]

Quite simply it was one of my busiest weekends of the year and I hadn't got a spare hour to tidy up the mess. Why do you feel the need to be so derogatory too? Surely that's what you're criticising others of?

 

Andy,

 

I appreciate that you were busy with Warley - but are there not other moderators? The damage was being done during the weekend, and the loss of Falcon Brassmasters would have been disastrous. Samantha indicated that the site would close imminently, so something had to be done quickly. I concede that I whipped up support for Samantha - it was the only way that I could think of to try and avert her intended action.

 

Frankly, the issue should have been picked up by one of the moderators as soon as Samantha indicated that she had been seriously affected by adverse comment on RMweb. As it was, the thread was removed without explanation; far better would have been for the thread to be locked, along with a comment to the effect that the issue had been recognised and was being dealt with.

 

I know that Warley is the highlight of the year for the model railway press, and seems to take precedence over everything else - but the world does not stop turning for all those not attending, and for many of those who do. Perhaps it might be wise to ensure alternative moderation when you are otherwise occupied?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited November 28, 2017 by cctransuk

[Guest Lyonesse]

Having received a PM from Samantha on the weekend confirming the etches for the L&Y Railmotor would be delivered - I was extremely pleased when the mailman delivered them (here in Canada) this afternoon!

 

I placed the order on the Falcon Brassworks website on October 25 2017 and paid by PayPal so it was only a month for delivery.

 

I would say that is excellent service considering the fact the etchings are produced to order and at least one week for the mail to get here.

 

The etchings are very crisp and have none of the discolouring that I have seen on previous Jidenco etches I have had.

 

I would like to compliment Samantha and her associates on the excellent service and product and hope she reconsiders closing down the website.

 

I have successfully built a Jidenco kit (Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0) previously so know exactly what to expect :-)

 

Railmotor-Etches.jpg

 

Steve

Canada

That looks fantastic.   (Damn, now I want one).

 

One of the problems with the old Jidenco kits, at least in my limited experience, was that they were just badly made, with poorly registered etching masks and inadequate etch time so that parts had ragged edges or weren't fully cut out.  And that's not to mention some dodgy WM castings.  Congrats to Samantha and the current team for getting a brilliant result from legacy tools.

[chrisf]

I had a word with the Dart Castings guys at Warley on Sunday, before I knew that the old thread had been removed.  I explained that we are not all as ill-mannered as our two fellow members.

 

Chris 

[chris p bacon]

Without taking this thread down the same road I'd like to make a comment about the 2 people who posted, as already posters are presuming them to be villains without seeing the thread.

 

The comments they made were not derogatory but noted that they are not really kits but poor etches, and that timescales for ordering were too long.  These were reasoned comments and a trader should be able to take note of this as customer feedback. They were then subjected to some very nasty and personal comments which have no place on any forum.  Then based upon 2 people posting negative comments a part owner of the range then said they would take the whole range down (which is a very strange business decision). 

 I thought that the behaviour of some of those posting was tantamount to bullying and was unacceptable, and quite frankly the thread belonged in the ether never to be seen again.

 

There are only a couple of items in the range that interest me but I would think twice about purchasing them.  I did note that although Retro-man posted a pic of his etches which met with positive comments, I also noted that at £70+ he has started another thread asking for instructions. Bearing in mind that you can purchase a kit such as a J6 from London Rd models for just over £100 with full and comprehensive instructions they are to my mind a little overpriced (and yes I do know what the costs of etching are) so the comments that sparked the vitriol that led to the threads deletion were not unwarranted.

[Lecorbusier]

I followed the previous thread though did not contribute, and missed the weekend meltdown!

 

I would observe though,  I felt it had been made very clear that the work involved in updating the artwork for the range was simply too great to allow the range to be re-released anytime soon as a set of complete kits. People then expressed the wish that perhaps the original etches could be made available (with all there faults) as they provided a valuable resource for some. Samantha was happy to look into this and make the etches available ... but made it very clear that if etches were not in stock there could be a reasonably lengthy wait time for delivery ... and that it must be understood that they were purchased with a full understanding of the inherent shortcomings within the product ... not ones for which the current vendor was responsible.

 

As far as pricing is concerned - this is simply a matter for the supplier .... the punter then makes his or her own choice. The LRM cost centre is irrelevant ... the etches will either sell or not at the price advertised. If you don't think they are worth it don't buy them.

[Retro_man]

 

There are only a couple of items in the range that interest me but I would think twice about purchasing them.  I did note that although Retro-man posted a pic of his etches which met with positive comments, I also noted that at £70+ he has started another thread asking for instructions. Bearing in mind that you can purchase a kit such as a J6 from London Rd models for just over £100 with full and comprehensive instructions they are to my mind a little overpriced (and yes I do know what the costs of etching are) so the comments that sparked the vitriol that led to the threads deletion were not unwarranted.

 

The etches may appear over priced compared to other complete kits available on the market, but when you consider the amount of time it would take to scratch build the same parts it seems quite reasonable to me. Other than a 3D printed model of the L&Y Railmotor which is not cheap either, as far as I know there is no other option for building this loco.

 

My goal was to obtain these etches now when available just in case they disappeared completely down the road and hopefully that is not what just happened!

 

Another RMweb member believes they may have the kit instructions and has kindly offered to scan them if located which will help me considerably, but if they are not available no worries - I will still build the kit - it will just take a bit longer.

 

UPDATE! Full instructions now obtained from RMwebber - Pete Harvey - thank you Pete!

 

Steve

Canada

Edited November 28, 2017 by Retro_man

[samanthahate]

Good evening everyone

Firstly I would just like to express how thankful i am for all your support. I am overwhelmed with how kind you all are.

 

As I said in my last post I am not doing this because model rail is something I am interested in I was doing to as my husband and mother in law bought the business and did not have the time to carry it on. I at the time thought I did and was happy to keep a business alive for others to get enjoyment out of. I just felt at the weekend this was not the case and didn't want to continue for no reason.

However, having read everyone's comments I few awful that it may be coming to an end. My husband is actually off tomorrow as we have an appointment for our son at guys hospital in London and while we wait to been seen (always long waits at hospitals) we shall have a serious chat about how to move forward.

Once again I can not thank you all enough

Samantha

[hayfield]

Without taking this thread down the same road I'd like to make a comment about the 2 people who posted, as already posters are presuming them to be villains without seeing the thread.

 

The comments they made were not derogatory but noted that they are not really kits but poor etches, and that timescales for ordering were too long.  These were reasoned comments and a trader should be able to take note of this as customer feedback. They were then subjected to some very nasty and personal comments which have no place on any forum.  Then based upon 2 people posting negative comments a part owner of the range then said they would take the whole range down (which is a very strange business decision). 

 I thought that the behaviour of some of those posting was tantamount to bullying and was unacceptable, and quite frankly the thread belonged in the ether never to be seen again.

 

There are only a couple of items in the range that interest me but I would think twice about purchasing them.  I did note that although Retro-man posted a pic of his etches which met with positive comments, I also noted that at £70+ he has started another thread asking for instructions. Bearing in mind that you can purchase a kit such as a J6 from London Rd models for just over £100 with full and comprehensive instructions they are to my mind a little overpriced (and yes I do know what the costs of etching are) so the comments that sparked the vitriol that led to the threads deletion were not unwarranted.

 

 

From reading most of what went on over the weekend was due to lack of communication from all parties concerned. To her credit Samantha held her hands up and admitted she could have done more.

 

What I think annoyed Samantha so much was the fact that before posting the comments, an email to her before posting those comments would have given her the opportunity to resolve the issues

 

I do know another trader who had stopped reading any comments on RMweb good or bad, due to the comments of a few members. 

[chris p bacon]

I would observe though,  I felt it had been made very clear that the work involved in updating the artwork for the range was simply too great to allow the range to be re-released anytime soon as a set of complete kits. People then expressed the wish that perhaps the original etches could be made available (with all there faults) as they provided a valuable resource for some. Samantha was happy to look into this and make the etches available ... but made it very clear that if etches were not in stock there could be a reasonably lengthy wait time for delivery ... and that it must be understood that they were purchased with a full understanding of the inherent shortcomings within the product ... not ones for which the current vendor was responsible.

 

You may say that, but the website says otherwise.

 

After a lot of time spent re-organising the range of nearly 500 kits, the business is now reaching a point where kits are once again available, starting with the range of wagon kits which are available for online purchase now, although initially delivery times will be a little slower than usual. It is planned that many will be improved and new assembly instructions will be written. In the meantime, kits will remain available in their current form. Unfortunately, there are some kits that have such a low unit sale per year that it may not be cost effective to update them.

 This is from the website that was last updated in August 2013.

 

With reference to the shortcomings, the Falcon thread on here was probably not the first point of call for most,  and with an active website that takes payment they may have presumed that timescales were as advertised and they were getting a kit not "Scratchbuild aids" as referred to earlier in the thread(s)

 

This again from the Falcon website in their terms and conditions.

 

We aim to post your items within 6 weeks days of receiving the order. We are usually much faster than this! Occasionally this may not be possible in which case we will contact you.

 

 

I note there is confusion within their own terms, but I understand that if taking payment through a website as they do, they are governed by distance selling. Having an extended timescale isn't an issue if you are advised beforehand.  None of the above is an issue if you know beforehand, I personally have been waiting for a locomotive for nearly 3 years and am happy to wait a bit longer (not too long though).  

 

What was an issue was the behaviour of some members against those that dare to question.

 

For your last point.

As far as pricing is concerned - this is simply a matter for the supplier .... the punter then makes his or her own choice. The LRM cost centre is irrelevant ... the etches will either sell or not at the price advertised. If you don't think they are worth it don't buy them.

 

I had already intimated I wouldn't purchase so it's an irrelevant comment. 

[Lecorbusier]

Purely commenting on my interpretation of the forum discussions not the web site ... and its just my opinion. It was what I took away from the discussions.