DJM Dave Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 I am keen to get on board with this but need to get some bills out of the way first. Is it confirmed that orders will remain open until the end of this month regardless of the final milestone being reached? Hi, Yes the order book is still open, to the end of this month, and I think as the scanning party is the start of June, the month of May too. Please note this is a DJM crowdfunding project and DJM will be invoicing, designing, and finally supplying the finished model and is therefore totally responsible for your investment. Also: Please Note: Any 'pure' crowdfunding venture is an investment with no guarantee of return, and your invested capital (deposit payments) are at risk. Please consider carefully whether you wish to partake in this venture before ordering. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Just trying to be realistic, regarding the time frame, Sandwich Station worked it out to be a year which I agree with as a best case If we add Chinese new year(CNY) into the mix then that could add another 6/8 weeks. With the scan party as the start date then July/August 2019 could be the delivery date Worst case I calculated to be 56 weeks, add CNY & We end up with Sept/Oct 2019 Hope its a lot earlier, time will tell Regarding the order book, Would it be possible to leave it open until production starts?. Latecomers would have to pay the 1st,2nd,3rd&or 4th payments at the time they order John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Just trying to be realistic, regarding the time frame, Sandwich Station worked it out to be a year which I agree with as a best case If we add Chinese new year(CNY) into the mix then that could add another 6/8 weeks. With the scan party as the start date then July/August 2019 could be the delivery date Worst case I calculated to be 56 weeks, add CNY & We end up with Sept/Oct 2019 Hope its a lot earlier, time will tell Regarding the order book, Would it be possible to leave it open until production starts?. Latecomers would have to pay the 1st,2nd,3rd&or 4th payments at the time they order John Hi John, It’s a stick to beat me with if I go for earlier dates, which is why i’m Being careful as ‘real world’ stuff can and does get in the way. Especially with testing, design, tooling, manufacturing product etc. Now. It’s a 2 way stick as well, because if it comes together quickly, i’ll Be asking for development payments quicker than I think initially I would, and that could be problematic too. Somewhere in there is a happy medium, and I hope, siggestions, with feedback from the crowdfunders can strike that. Keeping the order books open is ok, however now we are over the minimum amounts to make the project work, when do we draw that line? Should someone coming in with money in 4 months time, for instance, when the project is well underway, be able to come in and buy at a crowdfunding price, as it’s you guys that got it to this point, and should, perhaps, reap the rewards? If it’s kept open, should, as explained in the last paragraph, it have a price rise for every couple of months to help those that are undecided at the moment, commit and benefit early? What do members think? Please note this is a DJM crowdfunding project and DJM will be invoicing, designing, and finally supplying the finished model and is therefore totally responsible for your investment. Also: Please Note: Any 'pure' crowdfunding venture is an investment with no guarantee of return, and your invested capital (deposit payments) are at risk. Please consider carefully whether you wish to partake in this venture before ordering. Cheers Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2018 It’s a case of risk and reward. By providing the finance at the start and in subsequent instalments the crowdfunders are shouldering the risk with the reward of the lower crowdfunder price - and hopefully the finished model. Darius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2018 IMHO if the order book is kept open price should rise over time otherwise those who committed early and taking a financial risk are getting no benefit from doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I suppose you could keep the order books open and accept new orders at an increased price assuming there is enough demand, any additional monies could be used to lower the crowdfunders original price and dare I say it pay Dave and DTOS a little something for making this fab project happen, or use it to produce some APT P branded goodies ie. Mugs/pens/Colour brochure, you know the sort of tat we all like. Hey if this project is super successful I bet those of us who have signed up to the Apt would also want 2 prototype hst power cars now there’s a thought! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 APT progress update Hi everyone, I'm delighted to announce that due to a sudden surge in orders we have now passed the break even figure needed to manufacture and supply this train and we now have a 10% (and climbing seemingly by the hour) contingency behind the project for those 'what if' moments. At least it now seems like we are well on the way and the not so long ago days of losing a few clients is well behind us now. Thank you to everyone for making this project happen. Don't forget the scanning party on the 2nd June. you wont necessarily get an acknowledgement from us to say you have a place, because we will carry a database of crowdfunders on the day, but numbers for food and drink would be handy, and it will also allow is to schedule more presentations if necessary. Please note this is a DJM crowdfunding project and DJM will be invoicing, designing, and finally supplying the finished model and is therefore totally responsible for your investment. Also: Please Note: Any 'pure' crowdfunding venture is an investment with no guarantee of return, and your invested capital (deposit payments) are at risk. Please consider carefully whether you wish to partake in this venture before ordering. Cheers Dave 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Somewhere in there is a happy medium, Oh no there isnt! It is panto season isnt it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Never mind the scanning party looks like it’s going to be a rave as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Oh no there isnt! It is panto season isnt it? You wouldn’t believe how much i’m Close to answering yes. Lol Or even thinking it’s still April 1st lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I realise this has been asked before but further down the line maybe when initial order quantity deadline has passed could it be possible to order extra coaches? I have ordered the 7 car set but would like a restaurant coach which I don't think is in the 7 car set? This could provide an extra revenue stream. Thanks Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Personally, and this may sound a little harsh, then I think the deadlines should remain as is, for everyone's benefit. Firstly, if they are relaxed for this project by DTOS, future projects may be jeopardised, as there is no/very little "incentive" to sign up early. Maybe the recent order upsurge, is because of the impending deadline? Secondly, the project has been announced for a good few months, so everyone must be aware of it. Third, I know it is an expensive item for most people, and we have all had a few months to "plan" to get the money ready. Looking at the possible timescales, then if someone has not already got the money to fund the first part, then apart from winning the lottery, selling a kidney, etc., then going forward how will they afford the 2nd, 3rd and 4th payments, in a timely manner, which looking at Dave's most recent comments may not even be spread over 2 years, but perhaps little more than 1 year. Although we should all want this hobby to be inclusive, with prices now-a-days, being realistic, a good number of people who would like one will probably never have the means to purchase one of these APT's. Forth, if DTOS, are having a few extra which will be 25% higher priced, then thats his benefit from managing the project, and people know that if they don't sign up by the close of crowdfunding, firstly they will upon arrival have to hope there are some left and secondly they know what the financial impact of that decision will be. Likewise a few others have probably ordered a couple under the crowdfunding scheme, as an investment, hoping prices increase. (It is not as though it is a limited edition where such purchasers are denying someone buying one - everyone has had a chance to add their order to the quantity made) They could pull out, thus reducing the number of models ordered, if people are going to be able to add "New" orders at a later stage. Its with these issues in mind that I believe that the cut-off dates should be maintained for DTOS projects, both for the benefit of this project and future ones. Best Regards, C. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 I realise this has been asked before but further down the line maybe when initial order quantity deadline has passed could it be possible to order extra coaches? I have ordered the 7 car set but would like a restaurant coach which I don't think is in the 7 car set? This could provide an extra revenue stream. Thanks Mark Hi Mark, The APT has managed to get favourable terms with regards to production numbers / price, and as such any further orders would have to be of a quantity to make the Chinese think its worth it. I’ve said it’s more than likely the project will never be re-run because of the amount of people out there that might want one, will probably be sated by this run, however if say 200+ like minded individuals were to get together and commission extra coaches further down the line (excuse the pun) I don’t think anyone would mind, but I’m not sure the lead times would be quick for production. Please note this is a DJM crowdfunding project and DJM will be invoicing, designing, and finally supplying the finished model and is therefore totally responsible for your investment. Also: Please Note: Any 'pure' crowdfunding venture is an investment with no guarantee of return, and your invested capital (deposit payments) are at risk. Please consider carefully whether you wish to partake in this venture before ordering. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) If it’s kept open, should, as explained in the last paragraph, it have a price rise for every couple of months to help those that are undecided at the moment, commit and benefit early? What do members think? Cheers Dave You could experiment that on the 74. After the 71 could be found cheaper than crowd funder prices several months after release, I suspect many crowd funders of the 71 are wondering why they ordered and paid so early if they could have had it cheaper not that long after release. I ordered a 74 not long after they were announced and despite the 71 experience, have stuck with it but we are getting on for a good few years now.So we must be at a stage whereby those joining barely replace those who have left this world (sad fact of life, but I know from my experience with pre orders at the signal box that almost 5% has passed away from when Bachmann announced their N class and when it finally arrived). Now maybe many people wanting a 74 are not joining yet until closer to delivery. The only way to find out is bump the price up, so that those joining late have an incentive and those of us who paid years up front are not sitting here thinking why did I bother? If that still fails to bring in the numbers then at a certain point we should define when it should be dropped. Rapido/NRM gave me free postage paying fully now and I,ve avoided all the price increase. Likewise they dropped certain projects once the order intake showed it was not viable. Knowing a project can be dropped can also be an incentive. Finally you don,t need to increase the price often (when each payment milestone is reached or about every six months depending on which is the shorter should be suffice) nor even by much (3%). You want to encourage people not drive them away. Kernow recently gave great incentives with their Bullied diesels, I paid for both of mine in advance. Edited April 8, 2018 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Paid my 25% deposit 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Hi everyone, Just to let you all know, and if you see someone asking for a response please let them know too, that as from this afternoon i'm away on family matters for just over a week and as such will not be able to answer mails readily. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2018 After much soul searching and bean counting I have just taken the plunge and ordered a 14 car set. Awaiting invoice which I expect will be after Dave's return. One question for Dave and DToS. Would it be possible to have the "City of Derby" body on one of the working power cars? Alternatively will nameplates be available that I could add? Great project and I am looking forward to receiving this model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 One question for Dave and DToS. Would it be possible to have the "City of Derby" body on one of the working power cars? Alternatively will nameplates be available that I could add? Having followed this thread for a while, it seems that minor variations within larger batches are not feasible. I don't know too much about the history of City of Derby. Was it named early or later in the APT's life? Was it the only named power car? Was it part of one of the 14-car sets which have been announced? Answers to these may give an insight on whether it is likely to be in the 14 car train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJC92 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Having followed this thread for a while, it seems that minor variations within larger batches are not feasible. I don't know too much about the history of City of Derby. Was it named early or later in the APT's life? Was it the only named power car? Was it part of one of the 14-car sets which have been announced? Answers to these may give an insight on whether it is likely to be in the 14 car train. I believe it was 49003 from set 370003 that was the only named APT vehicle, 'City Of Derby' which is being produced as the 7 and 10 car sets, both with black window surrounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP 4000 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Paid my 25% deposit Me Too, for the 14 car, just waiting for the invoice for the 6 car, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) Hi All Regards to the Black Fronted version, which had the words 'Intercity APT-P' (along with the Double Arrow Logo on the Left side) below the Black Window Frame, Did the Full Yellow Fronted ever have the wording to...? I know the Hornby version is just plain Yellow Fronted and Only the Black Fronted had the Wording, but what did the Real APT ever have... was it on Both Yellow & Black...? Interesting about the 'City of Derby' threads above, it would be good they have them on etched name plates to put on your self and supplied with every model. Shame its not gone on the 14-Car Set as standard with the correct running number 49003...! Regards Jamie Edited April 19, 2018 by 7APT7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Hi All Regards to the Black Fronted version, which had the words 'Intercity APT-P' (along with the Double Arrow Logo on the Left side) below the Black Window Frame, Did the Full Yellow Fronted ever have the wording to...? I know the Hornby version is just plain Yellow Fronted and Only the Black Fronted had the Wording, but what did the Real APT ever have... was it on Both Yellow & Black...? Interesting about the 'City of Derby' threads above, it would be good they have them on etched name plates to put on your self and supplied with every model. Shame its not gone on the 14-Car Set as standard with the correct running number 49003...! Regards Jamie No, but I believe it is "City of Derby" on the 10 Car unit. Regards, C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 20, 2018 No, but I believe it is "City of Derby" on the 10 Car unit. Regards, C. So it's not possible to purchase the "ultimate" i.e. a 14 car set with a named locomotive! Anyone want to swap their "City of Derby" for an un named powered loco please PM me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted April 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 20, 2018 Hi All <snip> Shame its not gone on the 14-Car Set as standard with the correct running number 49003...! Regards Jamie I for one am glad that they didn't do it as the 14-car set. I detest the layouts that follow the "everything has to be the unique / unusual / named" theme... Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I for one am glad that they didn't do it as the 14-car set. I detest the layouts that follow the "everything has to be the unique / unusual / named" theme... Roy I don't like one-off named locos or units very much, like blue 37s or Bachmann's grey 350/1 (the only one which carried a name). I would not be so bothered with the APT-P because nobody is likely to run them it & down the line continually, masquerading as different units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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