OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[gwrrob]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And to further add to this week’s gloom. The Warley Show is no more.

 

Always the show where manufacturers would talk to me about their forthcoming goodies.😉

Edited January 11 by gwrrob
spilling

[Harlequin]

7 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Always the show where manufacturers would talk to me about there forthcoming goodies.😉

Apart from Dapol, of course. 😜

[steveb860]

On 11/01/2024 at 09:12, phil gollin said:

.

 

Any news of when when the next batch of 43xx Moguls will be ready ?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

.

February /  March according to Rails in their latest email.

[gwrrob]

On 14/01/2024 at 13:45, steveb860 said:

February /  March according to Rails in their latest email.

 

Due soon according to their news page.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/new-Dapol-due-soon

[Neal Ball]

14 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Due soon according to their news page.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/new-Dapol-due-soon

I saw that yesterday as well Robin, if you then click onto the Rails website, they are still showing CAD drawings for some locos.

 

The incoming locos, are they from batch 1, or the new revised tooling?

 

Either way, it must mean a Dapol container is close, which may (or may not) have the Mainline and City carriages on board 😎

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

The incoming locos, are they from batch 1, or the new revised tooling?

 

It's probably misleading to describe them either as batch 1 or revised new tooling. To me, these are variations in the toolset as originally planned by Dapol. (Although it looks like the slidebars have been improved, as promised, which is very welcome.)

 

4321 represents the earliest prototype state (actually not quite, the short cab/short frame 4301-20 were never intended to be covered by Dapol).

 

I feel Dapol has probably gone as far as it reasonably could without busting the tooling bank, and there are lots of excellent things about 4321 that make it good for the early period - portholes in the cab front, longitudinal vacuum cylinder on the tender, flush-riveted tender body, early pony truck cover, flush-riveted smokebox, small boss wheels, parallel chimney, tall vacuum pipe. What is not included in the Dapol tooling for the very early locos are:

 

- a wooden roof for the cab (steel cab roofs started to appear c 1919 - the first loco so built is cited iirc somewhere on one of the RMweb Mogul threads);

- an early style of lubricator pipe cover and/or smokebox damper;

- light tender springs;

- early brake hangars (on both loco and tender).

 

Painting-wise, it should have polished splasher beading for the very early state (disappeared mostly during WWI I think), and I'm fairly certain wheelboss lining was not being applied to service paints by that stage (1911). Dapol probably got the notion from the works grey portraits of 4302 and 4331. My view is that wheel boss lining on service paints probably disappeared c 1906-7, but I could be wrong. It's one of those 'transitional' painting phases.

 

The cab/tender handrails are too gaudy in my view.

 

Overall though, Dapol has pushed the boat out for such an early style, and commendably so. It looks a cracker.

 

 

 

[Chuffer Davies]

Is there any information about the gearing?  The first release had a ratio of approximately 18:1 which gave them a ridiculous top speed and at low speeds whilst smooth some  were reportedly a bit twitchy  to control.  Hopefully they have changed the ratio to make low speed control easier and a more prototypical top speed.

[cctransuk]

18 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

 

It's probably just me but, whenever I see an image of a Dapol Mogul, I think of a camel!

 

Was the boiler/ firebox angle really this accute.

 

CJI.

[Miss Prism]

7 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Was the boiler/ firebox angle really this accute.

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/drawings/loco/loco185.jpg

 

(I can't comment about how accurate this weight diagram is, but it's probably close.)

 

 

Edited February 2 by Miss Prism
caveat included

[Neal Ball]

37 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

It's probably misleading to describe them either as batch 1 or revised new tooling. To me, these are variations in the toolset as originally planned by Dapol. (Although it looks like the slidebars have been improved, as promised, which is very welcome.)

 

4321 represents the earliest prototype state (actually not quite, the short cab/short frame 4301-20 were never intended to be covered by Dapol).

 

I feel Dapol has probably gone as far as it reasonably could without busting the tooling bank, and there are lots of excellent things about 4321 that make it good for the early period - portholes in the cab front, longitudinal vacuum cylinder on the tender, flush-riveted tender body, early pony truck cover, flush-riveted smokebox, small boss wheels, parallel chimney, tall vacuum pipe. What is not included in the Dapol tooling for the very early locos are:

 

- a wooden roof for the cab (steel cab roofs started to appear c 1919 - the first loco so built is cited iirc somewhere on one of the RMweb Mogul threads);

- an early style of lubricator pipe cover and/or smokebox damper;

- light tender springs;

- early brake hangars (on both loco and tender).

 

Painting-wise, it should have polished splasher beading for the very early state (disappeared mostly during WWI I think), and I'm fairly certain wheelboss lining was not being applied to service paints by that stage (1911). Dapol probably got the notion from the works grey portraits of 4302 and 4331. My view is that wheel boss lining on service paints probably disappeared c 1906-7, but I could be wrong. It's one of those 'transitional' painting phases.

 

The cab/tender handrails are too gaudy in my view.

 

Overall though, Dapol has pushed the boat out for such an early style, and commendably so. It looks a cracker.

 

 

 

Thanks very much Miss Prism, it certainly looks a lovely loco.

[Mikkel]

50 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

It's probably misleading to describe them either as batch 1 or revised new tooling. To me, these are variations in the toolset as originally planned by Dapol. (Although it looks like the slidebars have been improved, as promised, which is very welcome.)

 

4321 represents the earliest prototype state (actually not quite, the short cab/short frame 4301-20 were never intended to be covered by Dapol).

 

I feel Dapol has probably gone as far as it reasonably could without busting the tooling bank, and there are lots of excellent things about 4321 that make it good for the early period - portholes in the cab front, longitudinal vacuum cylinder on the tender, flush-riveted tender body, early pony truck cover, flush-riveted smokebox, small boss wheels, parallel chimney, tall vacuum pipe. What is not included in the Dapol tooling for the very early locos are:

 

- a wooden roof for the cab (steel cab roofs started to appear c 1919 - the first loco so built is cited iirc somewhere on one of the RMweb Mogul threads);

- an early style of lubricator pipe cover and/or smokebox damper;

- light tender springs;

- early brake hangars (on both loco and tender).

 

Painting-wise, it should have polished splasher beading for the very early state (disappeared mostly during WWI I think), and I'm fairly certain wheelboss lining was not being applied to service paints by that stage (1911). Dapol probably got the notion from the works grey portraits of 4302 and 4331. My view is that wheel boss lining on service paints probably disappeared c 1906-7, but I could be wrong. It's one of those 'transitional' painting phases.

 

The cab/tender handrails are too gaudy in my view.

 

Overall though, Dapol has pushed the boat out for such an early style, and commendably so. It looks a cracker.

 

 

 

 

Thank you, the pre-WW1 features are useful. I would want to address some of them (whether on this one or on my trusty old Bachmann version, which for all its issues runs like silk and has personality).

 

Looking at these Swindon shots of 4301 and 4302, which presumably have the wooden rooves, I'm wondering whether the rooves are notably different from the model in visual terms.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2 by Mikkel
To clarify

[Miss Prism]

On the subject of rooves, I notice from the Dapol blurb that the roof is 'New cab with higher and shorter roof'. That's a new one on me, and I must check out previous discussions (this thread is very long!)

 

 

[Miss Prism]

18 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Looking at these Swindon shots of 4301 and 4302, which presumably have the wooden rooves, I'm wondering whether the rooves are notably different from the model in visual terms.

 

The wooden roof is canvas covered and the capping strips are thin (like the ones on goods vans). I assume they were painted black. The later metal roof has side strips. There's a definite difference in appearance in my opinion, but many people won't be bothered.

 

[cctransuk]

41 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/drawings/loco/loco185.jpg

 

(I can't comment about how accurate this weight diagram is, but it's probably close.)

 

 

 

Thank you; from that diagram and the subsequently posted photos, I'd say that the backward rake of the firebox top is a little excessive on the model.

 

CJI.

[Miss Prism]

7 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Thank you; from that diagram and the subsequently posted photos, I'd say that the backward rake of the firebox top is a little excessive on the model.

 

Much discussed in both (Dapol and Accurascale) Manor threads.

 

[gwrrob]

Our friends at Modelu have released a specific crew for this model.

 

https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/11245/

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Much discussed in both (Dapol and Accurascale) Manor threads.

 

Which discussion had me scurrying to take a good look again at mine from the first batch. Yes,there IS certainly a slope which when viewed in plain sight doesn’t seem to be vexing. But viewed here on camera on this thread it does tend to be,as it were,in your face. Just my observation,that’s all.

[gwrrob]

Kernow have advised of these in stock today and although images of all of them aren't available yet here's some more of 4321,4358 and 5322. Hopefully Chris Nevard will photograph them all next week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2 by gwrrob
added detail.

[Miss Prism]

Not impressed by the colouring of the garter crest.

 

[melmerby]

15 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Not impressed by the colouring of the garter crest.

 

Khaki looks more like cream emulsion paint!☹️

[Miss Prism]

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/shopimages/sections/normal/4 5322 in ROD livery 02.jpg

 

Note the Going Loco article says, of the khaki, "The colour is not confirmed."

 

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Khaki looks more like cream emulsion paint!☹️

Magnolia.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Kernow have advised of these in stock today and although images of all of them aren't available yet here's some more of 4321,4358 and 5322. Hopefully Chris Nevard will photograph them all next week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I saw these this morning (our time) and comparing the side view with the weight diagram posted by @Miss Prism I don't think they look too bad.

[B15nac]

There on eBay also 

[Cor-onGRT4]

14 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Is there any information about the gearing?  The first release had a ratio of approximately 18:1 which gave them a ridiculous top speed and at low speeds whilst smooth some  were reportedly a bit twitchy  to control.  Hopefully they have changed the ratio to make low speed control easier and a more prototypical top speed.

30:1 according Rails product informatio, so improved