OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Coach bogie]

On 04/02/2022 at 18:19, Siberian Snooper said:

Possibility of a condensing Metro or 97xx?

 

 

 

 

II wonder how many people would actually use a condensing Pannier? I only make the suggestion as I went to the trouble of super detailiing the K's, spending a long time making the wear pump etc and find I never actually used it. Mine has been in a drawer for at least 5 years.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[boxbrownie]

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

A while back I worked out how to bypass the electronics on the Dapol carrier board so that the decoder could drive the firebox LEDs directly:

 

In a nutshell: Chop the 8-pin chip off and connect pin 4 ground directly to pins 7 & 8, the pull-downs for the two Dapol firebox LEDs.

 

The lights now flickered under the control of the decoder rather than cycling regularly but they were still not very bright. So the next step was to improve the lighting itself. I tried a few things before ending up with the following solution:

 

I have removed the Dapol lights and their little carrier board completely and replaced them with a "super-bright orange LED". The LED is too big to fit directly behind the firebox doors and would probably look wrong there anyway. So instead it's mounted in the space where the old LEDs were and a transparent plastic light guide transmits the light up to the firebox doors.

 

I made the light guide from an old CD "jewel case": Cut out a piece 12mm by 7mm, chamfered the ends to give a kind of periscope effect and polished it using car polish:

 

The new LED is glued to the bottom of the light guide:

 

(I wrapped some fine foil around the back to help guide the light up but this might not be needed and it has the effect of making the inside of the firebox look silvery when the light is turned off - so maybe not a good idea.)

 

I connected the new LED to the common positive and both pulldown resistors of the original LEDs. This effectively provides more voltage for the new LED by halving the resistance. This is what it looks like mounted on the loco without the body:

You can see the LED shining forwards into the light guide and the chamfer at the top helping direct light back out of the firebox doors. The light guide is only 1mm thick so there's no problem with it fouling the body.

 

And with the body on:

 

I think it looks much more like a fire now than the original Dapol lighting: (Dapol in 5108 in front, my modification behind in 5109)

 

Bear in mind that the phone camera is mucking around with contrast and brightness in all these photos so they don't look the same as they do the naked eye. Sometimes brighter, sometimes dimmer.

 

Excellent work, it does make you wonder if some of these added (some even normal) features are all too quickly thought of, added and not properly researched and tested in development.

[1466]

36 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

II wonder how many people would actually use a condensing Pannier? I only make the suggestion as I went to the trouble of super detailiing the K's, spending a long time making the wear pump etc and find I never actually used it. Mine has been in a drawer for at least 5 years.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

36 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

II wonder how many people would actually use a condensing Pannier? I only make the suggestion as I went to the trouble of super detailiing the K's, spending a long time making the wear pump etc and find I never actually used it. Mine has been in a drawer for at least 5 years.

 

Mike Wiltshire

I wanted to replicate the Smithfield meat van trains shown in Russell  so created a hybrid 97xx . 
The chassis , mechanicals and cab came from Bachman. I added the tanks etc from a K’s body line kit of a 97xx and the extra weight has given it a bit more grunt .

The vans were Dublo Micas and the shorty Toad from PMK  .

The Micas were a bodge but ,  overall , the train pleased me.

[The Johnster]

Prototypes such as the 97xx condenser and MR Flatiron were popular among kit manufacturers and builders because the long tanks were effective at hiding the mechanisms without the need for boiler skirts, which restricted the space available for motors and gears.  The result was that a good few modellers back in the 60s and early 70s chose these as their first attempt at kitbuilding, and they found their way on to all sorts of layouts to which they were not really suited in terms of period and location.  Another such kit was the Wills TVR U1, the prototypes of which never got far from South Wales but turned up in model form all over GW territory.

[Coach bogie]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Prototypes such as the 97xx condenser and MR Flatiron were popular among kit manufacturers and builders because the long tanks were effective at hiding the mechanisms without the need for boiler skirts, which restricted the space available for motors and gears.  The result was that a good few modellers back in the 60s and early 70s chose these as their first attempt at kitbuilding, and they found their way on to all sorts of layouts to which they were not really suited in terms of period and location.  Another such kit was the Wills TVR U1, the prototypes of which never got far from South Wales but turned up in model form all over GW territory.

I justify my U1 as on short trip working to Westbury, after overhaul at Swindon. In addition, It is an excuse to have it clean.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Weaselfish]

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

A new 8700 was built as part of the same lot as the first of the new (non condensing) 8750 class. it is therefore out of numerical sequence, 8701-49 are 57XX not 8750.

I'm not sure about this. I haven't got the relevant RCTS volume to hand but here's a photo of 8700 in BR days and she is clearly a 57xx. 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrt2363.htm

 

 

[Coach bogie]

38 minutes ago, Weaselfish said:

I'm not sure about this. I haven't got the relevant RCTS volume to hand but here's a photo of 8700 in BR days and she is clearly a 57xx. 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrt2363.htm

 

 

It was. Despite the  larger cab versions being built at the time the replacement 8700 was deliberately built with the original cab. to fit in with the correct numerical sequence.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

It was. Despite the  larger cab versions being built at the time the replacement 8700 was deliberately built with the original cab. to fit in with the correct numerical sequence.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks, I hadn't appreciated that.

Futher reading of RCTS shows that it was actually built between 8792 & 8793, although it inherited the cab and numberplates from the original 8700 when that was rebuilt into 8750 style and renumbered 9700.

Good old GWR, never waste anything.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Weaselfish said:

I'm not sure about this. I haven't got the relevant RCTS volume to hand but here's a photo of 8700 in BR days and she is clearly a 57xx. 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrt2363.htm

 

 

See my post above, clarifying the details

[john dew]

On 05/12/2021 at 03:44, Harlequin said:

Here's the rear pony disassembled:

 

You can see the springs. I am going to leave them in for the moment but the reason for taking it apart was to fit some nylon washers to reduce the sideplay of the axle in the pony truck. Since the pony truck rotates I don't see the need for the axle to also have a lot of side to side freedom and I think it's causing the rear coupling to be off-centre.

 

 

Hi Phil

 

I am afraid  this will sound like a really dumb question…..but I cant locate the single pivot screw to remove the rear pony assembly from the chassis. Could you possibly give me clue?

 

Best wishes

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, john dew said:

 

Hi Phil

 

I am afraid  this will sound like a really dumb question…..but I cant locate the single pivot screw to remove the rear pony assembly from the chassis. Could you possibly give me clue?

 

Best wishes

Hi John,

The rear pony pivots on a peg on the chassis so you need to undo the three screws that hold the body and chassis together. Then separate them slightly and slide the pony out.

The screw at the front is bigger than the two at the rear (the outermost two screws).

Hopefully that description makes sense!?

Phil

[john dew]

20 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi John,

The rear pony pivots on a peg on the chassis so you need to undo the three screws that hold the body and chassis together. Then separate them slightly and slide the pony out.

The screw at the front is bigger than the two at the rear (the outermost two screws).

Hopefully that description makes sense!?

Phil

 

Hi Phil

 

Wow...you do get up early! With the 8 hour time difference and assorted domestic tasks I only just found time to try it out. I had done the rear screws but never thought to try the one right at the front.....I did mention dumb!

 

Its off now, so time for a bit of filing to deepen the axle slots. Generally it runs well but stalls on couple of areas where the track is less than perfect. Hopefully this will fix it but if not I will remove the PCB and hardwire a Zimo + SA. I dont expect all manufacturers to follow Accurascales Manor example but it would be nice if the PCBs were set up so it is easy to add an SA. 

 

Again many thanks for your prompt and helpful reply

 

[kingmender]

20 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi John,

The rear pony pivots on a peg on the chassis so you need to undo the three screws that hold the body and chassis together. Then separate them slightly and slide the pony out.

The screw at the front is bigger than the two at the rear (the outermost two screws).

Hopefully that description makes sense!?

Phil

Thanks Phil. I modified my rear bogie last night. Elongating the slots and shortening the springs by about 3mm. I then fitted a kadee long underset coupler by drilling out the rear screw hole and using a longer self tapping screw. The coupler is a little long so will be replaced with a medium when I get some more. 

Running is improved over pointwork where it had previously stalled, now completely smooth even at walking pace. 

Haulage is far greater than new Hornby equivalent. The Dapol prairie will haul 8 collett non corridor coaches up my 1:60 helix. Hornby won't get up with 4, seemingly short or torque rather than grip. Others have suggested additional weight although I've not tried this yet. Looks like a job for tonight.

Rodger

[john dew]

Hi Rodger

 

Thanks for the info......my next job.

 

There is lots of room in the Hornby Prairie for extra weight....makes a big difference.

 

Best

 

John

[GeoffBird]

I dont know if it has been asked before but the Early BR livery of 5190 with the "BRITISH LETTERING" real?  I cant find any photos of this and the lettering looks unusdual compared to other early BR variants.  Is this a Swindon special and what dates did it last?   Hope someone can help me here.

[Miss Prism]

35 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

I dont know if it has been asked before but the Early BR livery of 5190 with the "BRITISH LETTERING" real?

 

It has been asked before (in this thread) and although 5190 did receive lined black livery, I'm not convinced 5190 had that Gill Sans lettering. Further reading.

[GeoffBird]

32 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

It has been asked before (in this thread) and although 5190 did receive lined black livery, I'm not convinced 5190 had that Gill Sans lettering. Further reading.

32 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

It has been asked before (in this thread) and although 5190 did receive lined black livery, I'm not convinced 5190 had that Gill Sans lettering. Further reading.

I dont know if it has been asked before but the Early BR livery of 5190 with the "BRITISH LETTERING" real?  I cant find any photos of this and the lettering looks unusdual compared to other early BR variants.  Is this a Swindon special and what dates did it last?   Hope someone can help me here.

[Harlequin]

We may have maligned Dapol by questioning their British Railways lettering. Have a look at these:

 

Shared from smugmug.com.

 

Neither are 5190 but the livery and the lettering are a very close match to Dapol's 5190 in BR Black - with the sans serif lettering (Grotesque?).

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Harlequin

[GeoffBird]

Thanks for reference, in there it states that:

 

"From mid-January 1948, as an interim measure, 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in GWR Egyptian font was being applied to the sides of tenders and tanks" and also "large Prairies 4116, 4166, 4171, 4177, 5156, 5173, 5190"

 

It only needs to find out what "GWR Egyptian font" looked like.  I have seen pictures of a Star and a Castled with the lettered tender, but these dont look anythink like the one on the tank side of 5190 as they have serifs, for one thing.

 

[GeoffBird]

Interesting, neither of these two locos are mentioned in the "gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948" list.  At least it gives me the go ahead to get hold of a Dapol 5190.  Thanks a lot-

[Harlequin]

3 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Thanks for reference, in there it states that:

 

"From mid-January 1948, as an interim measure, 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in GWR Egyptian font was being applied to the sides of tenders and tanks" and also "large Prairies 4116, 4166, 4171, 4177, 5156, 5173, 5190"

 

It only needs to find out what "GWR Egyptian font" looked like.  I have seen pictures of a Star and a Castled with the lettered tender, but these dont look anythink like the one on the tank side of 5190 as they have serifs, for one thing.

 

 

Here's the Egyptian lettering on 4165, Geoff:

 

It is the old Great Western style lettering but spelling out "British Railways". Not the same thing as the sans serif lettering represented by Dapol.

 

[Miss Prism]

6 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

In there it states that:

 

"From mid-January 1948, as an interim measure, 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in GWR Egyptian font was being applied to the sides of tenders and tanks" and also "large Prairies 4116, 4166, 4171, 4177, 5156, 5173, 5190"

 

You are mixing up two things, the lining and the insignia.

 

5190 did get lined black livery, but it is not confirmed it got the Gill Sans insignia.

 

The 'GWR Egyptian font' was the standard  post-1906 style

 

 

[Miss Prism]

6 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Interesting, neither of these two locos are mentioned in the "gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948" list.

 

5180 was.

[coeurdelyon]

Hi Guys,

I am attaching herewith the picture we used for the livery of 5190 taken from Great Western Railway Journal to satisfy all concerned

Thanks, Richard

[melmerby]

On 05/02/2022 at 23:47, Harlequin said:

A while back I worked out how to bypass the electronics on the Dapol carrier board so that the decoder could drive the firebox LEDs directly:

 

In a nutshell: Chop the 8-pin chip off and connect pin 4 ground directly to pins 7 & 8, the pull-downs for the two Dapol firebox LEDs.

 

The lights now flickered under the control of the decoder rather than cycling regularly but they were still not very bright. So the next step was to improve the lighting itself. I tried a few things before ending up with the following solution:

 

 

Interersting mod.

R3 & R4 appear to be the pull down resistors.

Any idea what value they are?

 

I was wondering whether reducing those rather than changing the leds would be of any benefit?