OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[PJT]

20 minutes ago, rembrow said:

With the Prairie, it's the rear pony truck that is the problem, as when the loco is on the level, the truck and wheelset are unable to move upwards, thus creating a long fixed wheelbase. The rear pony has slots and springs on each side, intended to give upward movement, but it doesn't work, as the slot is not long enough and the wheelset is fully in the slot when on the level. Hopefully Dapol will make a modification on future runs, to increase the slot length.

 

Yes, sorry, I fully take your point and I should have made myself clearer.  I have been reading the posts on previous pages about the lack of movement of the rear pony and I can understand the issue and the fixes people have talked about for it - though since I don't have a Dapol Prairie myself and I haven't closely looked at one, I can't really offer an opinion on that matter. 

 

However I was really referring to @sjrixon's comment about electrical issues which, if the Prairie front or rear pony axle construction is similar to the Mogul's front pony, might well have a similar cure.  It's also my mistake for referring to the Prairie front pony when I should have said front or rear.

 

Pete T.

   

[Keegs]

On 21/02/2022 at 03:32, sjrixon said:

This loco is driving me crazy! I tweaked the pony truck, it's better, but it's still sticky. Slows to a halt and looses power almost everytime.

@sjrixon I had exactly the same issue with mine, sorry @rembrowI just saw your post, looks like either lengthening the slots would work too, didn't see that one but the procedure I used was this one (Start at the 4 minute mark.):

 

After his fix it runs like a dream....

Hopefully it works for you too.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Keegs
Acknowledged another users solution.

[sjrixon]

Nice video!! And yes, I've filed the slots, but, I think I need to find the time to do it more.. A plan for next week!!!

[sjrixon]

I think I've got it sorted. I filled the slots right down, so when you press on the bunker, the loco will tip back slightly on the rear pony. More testing required, but so far so good.

[JST]

Sadly I am sending my factory fitted sound version back. I have the dodgy rear pony truck syndrome which I could fix, but the decoder has now died (refuses all attempts at communication), While it was working the sound was disappointing. The volume of the chuffs was very low but the whistle etc. quite loud. I tried adjusting the CVs to no avail. A bit of a let down after my Mogul which is superb. Maybe I will try a Hornby Prairie.

[boxbrownie]

47 minutes ago, JST said:

Sadly I am sending my factory fitted sound version back. I have the dodgy rear pony truck syndrome which I could fix, but the decoder has now died (refuses all attempts at communication), While it was working the sound was disappointing. The volume of the chuffs was very low but the whistle etc. quite loud. I tried adjusting the CVs to no avail. A bit of a let down after my Mogul which is superb. Maybe I will try a Hornby Prairie.

If the sound installation was fitted as well as mine in the Railcar was fitted I am not surprised.

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, JST said:

Sadly I am sending my factory fitted sound version back. I have the dodgy rear pony truck syndrome which I could fix, but the decoder has now died (refuses all attempts at communication), While it was working the sound was disappointing. The volume of the chuffs was very low but the whistle etc. quite loud. I tried adjusting the CVs to no avail. A bit of a let down after my Mogul which is superb. Maybe I will try a Hornby Prairie.

Did you try reseating the decoder in the carrier board?

The lack of bass is just due to the tiny little speaker. To improve the sound you really have to fit a bigger speaker and that takes a bit of effort but it’s not too difficult.

The Hornby prairie doesn’t make any allowance for a big speaker either, so also needs a bit of hacking to get really good sound.

 

35 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

If the sound installation was fitted as well as mine in the Railcar was fitted I am not surprised.

The standard sound installation in the prairies and moguls is a completely different process than used to be the case for the railcars - just unclipping, clipping, unplugging and plugging things together. Indeed they might have designed the new system specifically to overcome issues like you had. So it’s a bit unfair to raise it again.

 

[melmerby]

35 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

If the sound installation was fitted as well as mine in the Railcar was fitted I am not surprised.

The wiring in the DRC is IMHO a right rats nest.

I only have DCC, fitted by myself, but the wiring inside was an awful mess

Running was iffy at best and after a few days just died. when I opened up to see whether it was the decoder, I found a black wire floating around with no obvious place for it.

I had to send it back for replacement. The replacement DRC was somewhat better.

 

Unfortunately I sent it back complete with the dummy lamps, the replacement did not include any....

[JST]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Did you try reseating the decoder in the carrier board?

The lack of bass is just due to the tiny little speaker. To improve the sound you really have to fit a bigger speaker and that takes a bit of effort but it’s not too difficult.

The Hornby prairie doesn’t make any allowance for a big speaker either, so also needs a bit of hacking to get really good sound.

 

The standard sound installation in the prairies and moguls is a completely different process than used to be the case for the railcars - just unclipping, clipping, unplugging and plugging things together. Indeed they might have designed the new system specifically to overcome issues like you had. So it’s a bit unfair to raise it again.

 

 

Yes Phil, I had the board out and tried the Mogul board in it - it is definitely the Decoder that is the problem. You are of course right about the lack of bass due to the speaker but I was still a bit nonplussed about not being to adjust the volume. Hey ho.. I guess I was just a bit underwhelmed by the whole experience. I have an Accurascale Manor on order so maybe I will substitute the Prairie with a Dapol Manor, or if the Accurascale is really good, maybe a black one of those! 

[geoffers]

Had the rear trailing truck derailing as well but thanks to the advice on here and a play with the back-to-backs it is now sorted. So thanks to all. 

[SteamingWales]

Just a Sunday evening thought the popped into my head. How are the 43xx models coming along?

 

They were announced mid-March of last year with the quote: 

 

"The design team are making final revisions of the CAD’s and the project will to go into the tooling shop shortly. We will bring you more news as the model progresses. We anticipate the models will be available in shops Q1 – Q2 2022"

 

...so no news in over a year. I would expect delays with the whole no covid stuff happening in China ATM, but that wouldn't have affected the tooling which at announcement was imminent

[57xx]

1 hour ago, SteamingWales said:

Just a Sunday evening thought the popped into my head. How are the 43xx models coming along?

 

They were announced mid-March of last year with the quote: 

 

"The design team are making final revisions of the CAD’s and the project will to go into the tooling shop shortly. We will bring you more news as the model progresses. We anticipate the models will be available in shops Q1 – Q2 2022"

 

...so no news in over a year. I would expect delays with the whole no covid stuff happening in China ATM, but that wouldn't have affected the tooling which at announcement was imminent

 

I asked this a few months back, no news then (and a lot of people didn't even realise they were being done!).

[Chuffer Davies]

20 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Just a Sunday evening thought the popped into my head. How are the 43xx models coming along?

 

They were announced mid-March of last year with the quote: 

 

"The design team are making final revisions of the CAD’s and the project will to go into the tooling shop shortly. We will bring you more news as the model progresses. We anticipate the models will be available in shops Q1 – Q2 2022"

 

...so no news in over a year. I would expect delays with the whole no covid stuff happening in China ATM, but that wouldn't have affected the tooling which at announcement was imminent

According to Hattons they are expecting delivery between June and November this year.

[Neal Ball]

21 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Just a Sunday evening thought the popped into my head. How are the 43xx models coming along?

 

They were announced mid-March of last year with the quote: 

 

"The design team are making final revisions of the CAD’s and the project will to go into the tooling shop shortly. We will bring you more news as the model progresses. We anticipate the models will be available in shops Q1 – Q2 2022"

 

...so no news in over a year. I would expect delays with the whole no covid stuff happening in China ATM, but that wouldn't have affected the tooling which at announcement was imminent

 

Dapol are not exactly know for keeping their customers (us) up to date. It seems they don't like RMWeb, which is a shame as they would benefit greatly with better engagement.

 

It's the same with the Mainline and City carriages, the Shirtbutton livery ones (Batch 2), still don't show the artwork on the website.

[Ian J.]

Please excuse me not reading back through 120 pages of thread.

 

If I were able to get a Dapol 43xx (4s-043-006 7310, late BR Lined Green) what do I need to look out for in the way of 'issues'?

[Oldddudders]

4 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

Please excuse me not reading back through 120 pages of thread.

 

If I were able to get a Dapol 43xx (4s-043-006 7310, late BR Lined Green) what do I need to look out for in the way of 'issues'?

The first releases were noted - by some people - as having issues w slow running. My own example is simply perfect in this respect. Plugged in a decoder and she crawled wonderfully slowly from new. OTOH, I have found the pony truck to be a bit wayward, which means derailments at a certain pair of points untroubling to other locos. 

[rembrow]

22 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

Please excuse me not reading back through 120 pages of thread.

 

If I were able to get a Dapol 43xx (4s-043-006 7310, late BR Lined Green) what do I need to look out for in the way of 'issues'?

The main issues are, as Oldddudders has advised, slow running  which is due to the gear ratio used in these first releases, which was about 18to1. This does improve with running in. Dapol changed the gear ratio for the Prairie model. The other issue was more visual, the motion slide bars have an upturn at the ends.

If you can wait, Dapol have announced a further run and 4S-043-016 is BR late crest green, which has changes to correct the gear ratio to 30to1 and improvements to the slide bars. Also the firebox flicker/glow is low intensity and is being changed on the next run. I'm not worried about tge firebox effect.

Edited May 8, 2022 by rembrow
Addition

[boxbrownie]

23 minutes ago, rembrow said:

The main issues are, as Oldddudders has advised, slow running  which is due to the gear ratio used in these first releases, which was about 18to1. This does improve with running in. Dapol changed the gear ratio for the Prairie model. The other issue was more visual, the motion slide bars have an upturn at the ends.

If you can wait, Dapol have announced a further run and 4S-043-016 is BR late crest green, which has changes to correct the gear ratio to 30to1 and improvements to the slide bars. Also the firebox flicker/glow is low intensity and is being changed on the next run. I'm not worried about tge firebox effect.

Did Dapol announce these changes to the new run?

[rembrow]

5 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Did Dapol announce these changes to the new run?

Yes, the changes are quoted in the Rails info about the new run versions.

[Ian J.]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Some questions:

 

Is it possible, and has anyone attempted, to 'correct' the slide bar end splay?

 

I'm presuming, if the gear ratio is 18:1, that the slow running problem is one of getting it to run smoothly at low speeds? Is it theoretically possible within a consumer modeller's resources, to replace the gears? Are there even suitable replacements available, either from Dapol or a third party?

 

 

[Chuffer Davies]

27 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

Some questions:

 

Is it possible, and has anyone attempted, to 'correct' the slide bar end splay?

 

I'm presuming, if the gear ratio is 18:1, that the slow running problem is one of getting it to run smoothly at low speeds? Is it theoretically possible within a consumer modeller's resources, to replace the gears? Are there even suitable replacements available, either from Dapol or a third party?

 

 

The slide bar’s splayed ends is Dapol’s solution to avoiding the connecting rod from hitting the slide bar.  The prototype has a milled slot in the end of the bottom slide bar, the top slide bar doesn’t interfere with the connecting rod. Hornby’s solution was to offset the connecting rod behind the slide bar.  The popular way kit builders achieve this is to bevel the upper face at the end of the bottom slide bar. The material that Dapol has used for their slide bars is very brittle and will almost certainly crack if attempts to straighten them are made.

 

There are no replacement gear solutions for the early Dapol Mogul models.

 

Your best bet is to be patient and wait for the new model to be released, which hopefully will be later this year.

 

Frank

[Ian J.]

I think @Chuffer Davies and @rembrow might be right, so I can wait for the new batch and see if those things are fixed. Trying to make those correct on the existing model just seems like hard work.

[57xx]

On 08/05/2022 at 10:02, Ian J. said:

If I were able to get a Dapol 43xx (4s-043-006 7310, late BR Lined Green) what do I need to look out for in the way of 'issues'?

 

On 08/05/2022 at 10:18, rembrow said:

If you can wait, Dapol have announced a further run and 4S-043-016 is BR late crest green,

 

Just so you're aware this isn't just a "further run" of the same locos, they are "true" 43xx's from the early Lots with detail differences (like motion bracket and circular cab windows) from the later Lots that were represented in the first release (63/73xx's).

[Ian J.]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

 

Just so you're aware this isn't just a "further run" of the same locos, they are "true" 43xx's from the early Lots with detail differences (like motion bracket and circular cab windows) from the later Lots that were represented in the first release (63/73xx's).

 

I did a little extra research and noticed that when looking at the numbers for the late logo ones. I won't need more than one, and 5330 should do, even though 7310 might have been more suitable in some ways. Both apparently survived to 1964 though, so that's OK for 1961-ish.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Ian J.

[SteamingWales]

9 hours ago, Ian J. said:

 

I did a little extra research and noticed that when looking at the numbers for the late logo ones. I won't need more than one, and 5330 should do, even though 7310 might have been more suitable in some ways. Both apparently survived to 1964 though, so that's OK for 1961-ish.

 

How deep do you want to go into this?

 

The model of 7310 has an 84J Croes Newydd shed plate which is correct upto Sept 1960, after this it was 89B, so she is technically in pre-1960 condition.

 

Admittedly this is me just being picky being a Cambrian modeller 😅😅