OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Hilux5972]

My first ever Dapol model arrived today. The Lined BR Black BRITISH RAILWAYS version. Haven’t had a chance to run it yet but it’s a great looker. My heart sank slightly when I seen the box on my doorstep in this condition. 
Thankfully Hattons always use Airfilled bags as packing so the loco box is in perfect condition. 

[boxbrownie]

5 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

My first ever Dapol model arrived today. The Lined BR Black BRITISH RAILWAYS version. Haven’t had a chance to run it yet but it’s a great looker. My heart sank slightly when I seen the box on my doorstep in this condition. 
Thankfully Hattons always use Airfilled bags as packing so the loco box is in perfect condition. 

 looks like that passed the 100 metre drop test let alone the two metre!

 

Who was the delivery agent?

[latestarter]

My Dapol Large Prairie (GWR 5101 class - number 4143) arrived from Hattons yesterday. My short review and first test run is now on YouTube. I hope you find it helpful.
 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by latestarter

[Hilux5972]

6 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

 looks like that passed the 100 metre drop test let alone the two metre!

 

Who was the delivery agent?

NZ post this end, and I assume Royal Mail uk end. Could have happened on the plane, enroute to the plane, or enroute from the plane. Hattons air packaging always protects the model. 

[JST]

Just received notification from Hattons that my factory sound fitted Prairie is on it's way to me. I am in France so it will probably get here some time next week. My understanding is that the factory sound fitted locos take longer to arrive at retailers due to the sound being fitted in the UK at Dapol after arrival from China. My factory sound fitted Mogul was perfect so the optimist in me hopes that maybe, when they fit the sound they give it some sort of QC check. We shall see.

I have to say that the factory sound in the Mogul (Mr Soundguy?) was spot on so let's hope the Prairie is as good. I will post again with a video after I have it on my layout.

[Harlequin]

10 minutes ago, JST said:

Just received notification from Hattons that my factory sound fitted Prairie is on it's way to me. I am in France so it will probably get here some time next week. My understanding is that the factory sound fitted locos take longer to arrive at retailers due to the sound being fitted in the UK at Dapol after arrival from China. My factory sound fitted Mogul was perfect so the optimist in me hopes that maybe, when they fit the sound they give it some sort of QC check. We shall see.

I have to say that the factory sound in the Mogul (Mr Soundguy?) was spot on so let's hope the Prairie is as good. I will post again with a video after I have it on my layout.

 

I don't want to be negative but be pre-warned that whereas the Mogul has (can have) a huge speaker in the tender, the Prairie can only accept a really tiny speaker clipped to the decoder carrier board. So don't expect too much but hopefully you'll like it anyway.

 

If you want to fit a bigger speaker in the Prairie you have to get the Dremel out and carve a space for it in the body.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Harlequin

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

 

I don't want to be negative but be pre-warned that whereas the Mogul has (can have) a huge speaker in the tender, the Prairie can only accept a really tiny speaker clipped to the decoder carrier board. So don't expect too much but hopefully you'll like it anyway.

 

If you want to fit a bigger speaker in the Prairie you have to get the Dremel out and carve a space for it in the body.

 

Is there room in the bunker for a bigger speaker?

[Harlequin]

25 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Is there room in the bunker for a bigger speaker?

 

Yes: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129125-oo-gauge-gwr-mogul-and-prairie/&do=findComment&comment=4687128

 

[JST]

7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

I don't want to be negative but be pre-warned that whereas the Mogul has (can have) a huge speaker in the tender, the Prairie can only accept a really tiny speaker clipped to the decoder carrier board. So don't expect too much but hopefully you'll like it anyway.

 

If you want to fit a bigger speaker in the Prairie you have to get the Dremel out and carve a space for it in the body.

 

 I thought of that and tried the Mogul without the tender speaker. Yes it was quieter but still acceptable. I never like hacking new locos about due to potential warranty issues although I may slightly doctor the rear pony truck if I get problems with that.

BTW Phil, I may try your speaker in the bunker mod when the guarantee is up.

 

John

PS The Prairie will be used at Fernhead !

Edited January 28, 2022 by JST

[Star-rider]

The sound fitted version of 5109 arrived with me today, within 24 hours of despatch so up to the usual high standards from Hattons and Royal Mail.

 

The outer box looked a bit crumpled on one corner as if it had been dropped somewhere along the line so I feared the worst, but once I was deep into the packing sleeves the only thing that seemed amiss was one rear buffer rolling around loose and this was quickly pushed back into place.

 

Some have expressed concern about how good the sound would be as it does not benefit from a secondary tender mounted speaker that the Mogul features. Okay, it does not have the punch that the Mogul has but I feel that it is an acceptable level and quality of sound, certainly not that different from the Zimo decoders and sugar curve speakers that I have purchased in the past from Youchoos and installed into locomotives such as the 52XX and 56XX. As others have already said, there is probably the option of pushing another speaker into the bunker.

 

Whilst awaiting my model I have been reading posts here from others and it seems that people have had mixed results with the running. I can only say that mine is performing perfectly through double slips, facing and trailing point-work and reversing through a curved crossover. All of my track is code 100 with medium radius electrofrog points, there are unavoidable insulated frogs on the diamond crossings and a double slip, but there is currently no hesitation or dropping of sound on those areas.

 

All in all I’m very happy with it, whilst there is no “news” here I thought it right to leave a positive review to reassure those still contemplating a purchase as negative comments always seem louder!

[gwrrob]

Talking of the sound version , we have the HM and Mike Wild putting their review model to the test here.

 

 

[boxbrownie]

16 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Talking of the sound version , we have the HM and Mike Wild putting their review model to the test here.

 

 

Difficult to assess a recording of a recording but that does sound like the speaker has no enclosure, it’s very thin with no meat, subjectively I get better from my 14XX with a sugar cube in the bunker, and that’s really small.

[sjrixon]

My DCC, Sound fitted Prairie arrived today.. Generally, very smooth runner. But I'm finding it is sticky, loosing power in places that no other loco does. Not really checked over the pickups, but with such weight and huge wheels I'd expect it to better than a pannier that's fine. Anyone else?

[Harlequin]

21 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

My DCC, Sound fitted Prairie arrived today.. Generally, very smooth runner. But I'm finding it is sticky, loosing power in places that no other loco does. Not really checked over the pickups, but with such weight and huge wheels I'd expect it to better than a pannier that's fine. Anyone else?

Read back in this thread a bit. Check the pickups but the rear pony springs may be lifting the rear off the rails, especially if the track is uneven. They can be modified or removed. Another mod is to give the centre drivers more freedom to move downward.

[sjrixon]

21 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Read back in this thread a bit. Check the pickups but the rear pony springs may be lifting the rear off the rails, especially if the track is uneven. They can be modified or removed. Another mod is to give the centre drivers more freedom to move downward.

Thanks!!! I think it's the pony, it's holding the rear wheels off a little. - I'll go back over this thread and look at fixes when I've got time.

[sjrixon]

I've checked out the pony trunk, yike, it's solid on the track so the rear wheels are only just touching. There is no upward play.

[Harlequin]

18 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

I've checked out the pony trunk, yike, it's solid on the track so the rear wheels are only just touching. There is no upward play.

There are springs in the pony truck that should give the axle some vertical movement.

 

[Chuffer Davies]

30 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

There are springs in the pony truck that should give the axle some vertical movement.

 

If you look back to page 105 there is a photo of the dismantled pony truck showing the springs.

[sjrixon]

Found it! The springs are not the issue, the 'grove' that the wheel moves up and down in isn't deep enough. The rear pony wheel needs more vertical travel. Even with the sping, the rear pony pushes the wheel down hard onto the track, meaning the rear driver is being lifted. 

 

I took the pony wheels out, runs like a charm. Now I've got to bring myself to take a file to my 1 day old loco!

Edited February 4, 2022 by sjrixon

[rprodgers]

Is it now more likely that Dapol will do a 31xx earlier version of the prairie as they have just announced the non corridor Toplights in Lake livery?

 

Otherwise there is not much pre grouping GW rtr locos suitable for these coaches in this livery. 

[Siberian Snooper]

Possibility of a condensing Metro or 97xx?

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

11 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Possibility of a condensing Metro or 97xx?

 

 

 

 

Hopefully a normal Metro tank… would have more universal appeal.

 

Interestingly the 97xx series, only the first 10 were condensing tank locos. The rest in the series were normal Pannier tanks.

[The Johnster]

I'd say there is a market, albeit slightly niche, for both locos, 31xx and Metro, but more so the Metro.  County tank is another possibility.  Don't hold your breath, though...

Edited February 5, 2022 by The Johnster

[Harlequin]

A while back I worked out how to bypass the electronics on the Dapol carrier board so that the decoder could drive the firebox LEDs directly:

 

In a nutshell: Chop the 8-pin chip off and connect pin 4 ground directly to pins 7 & 8, the pull-downs for the two Dapol firebox LEDs.

 

The lights now flickered under the control of the decoder rather than cycling regularly but they were still not very bright. So the next step was to improve the lighting itself. I tried a few things before ending up with the following solution:

 

I have removed the Dapol lights and their little carrier board completely and replaced them with a "super-bright orange LED". The LED is too big to fit directly behind the firebox doors and would probably look wrong there anyway. So instead it's mounted in the space where the old LEDs were and a transparent plastic light guide transmits the light up to the firebox doors.

 

I made the light guide from an old CD "jewel case": Cut out a piece 12mm by 7mm, chamfered the ends to give a kind of periscope effect and polished it using car polish:

 

The new LED is glued to the bottom of the light guide:

 

(I wrapped some fine foil around the back to help guide the light up but this might not be needed and it has the effect of making the inside of the firebox look silvery when the light is turned off - so maybe not a good idea.)

 

I connected the new LED to the common positive and both pulldown resistors of the original LEDs. This effectively provides more voltage for the new LED by halving the resistance. This is what it looks like mounted on the loco without the body:

You can see the LED shining forwards into the light guide and the chamfer at the top helping direct light back out of the firebox doors. The light guide is only 1mm thick so there's no problem with it fouling the body.

 

And with the body on:

 

I think it looks much more like a fire now than the original Dapol lighting: (Dapol in 5108 in front, my modification behind in 5109)

 

Bear in mind that the phone camera is mucking around with contrast and brightness in all these photos so they don't look the same as they do the naked eye. Sometimes brighter, sometimes dimmer.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Harlequin

[melmerby]

On 05/02/2022 at 06:10, Neal Ball said:

 

 

Interestingly the 97xx series, only the first 10 were condensing tank locos. The rest in the series were normal Pannier tanks.

11 actually.

No 9700 was originally built in 1931 by Beyer Peacock as 8700 of the 57XX class (old style cab) before being selected to be fitted with condensing apparatus. This also entailed shortening the tanks and adding a Weir pump etc.

This was found to be successful apart from the shortage of water capacity, so when new condensing engines 9701-9710 were built, (to the specification of the forthcoming 8750 class with the new style cab), they were provided with tanks that went down to the footplate at the rear, 8700 was later brought up to this specification and was renumbered 9700.

 

A new 8700 was built as part of the same lot as the first of the new (non condensing) 8750 class. it is therefore out of numerical sequence, 8701-49 are 57XX not 8750,

 

However it inherited the cab and numberplates from the old 8700/9700 when that was updated.

 

EDIT clarification.

Edited February 6, 2022 by melmerby