OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[The Fatadder]

Because a B set is available, and I am happy enough for now with mine, an ancient Airfix that I have worked up a bit, not that a new release wouldn't be an improvement.  But I cannot buy an RTR GW non-gangwayed compartment coach other than the B set, limited in use to shorter trains and unsuitable for suburban or longer distance secondary runs, and comparable to the RTR LMA period 1 and LNER Gresleys and Thompsons, or even the pre-grouping SECR and LSWR stuff for the Southern.  The old Airfix B set is dimensionally good and the basis of a good model if you put some effort in; I have no problem with that sort of basic modelling.  

 

I might be a little less oppositional to a flat ended B set, of which the coaches can be used individually.

 

Maybe I am slightly biased in that I do need E140 B sets, but to make a decent job of the model requires drilling out every single door handle and correctly recessing them, filling the fictional window on one side, rebuilding the underframe so that the boxes are in the correct place, add a flat headstock (and square shanked GWR buffers).  While a lot of that is fairly straight forward (and I have done it myself on my models), sorting the door handles is hugely time consuming (and so distinctive on the prototype).  Having tried to sort the door handles before its incredibly time consuming to make a good job of ​etched sides would make it a lot quicker...

 

​​Plenty suitable for suburban runs in the Bristol division and west, though again I would completely accept I am biased.  There is only one non corridor working on the South Devon mainline in 1947, and I am already half way through modelling it.  

[gwrrob]

Surely then a new Mogul and Large Prairie should be immediately cancelled.

 

Not when you find inspirational photos like this.

 

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Not when you find inspirational photos like this.

 

Mogul near Exeter.jpg

Another point; the Dapol CADs don’t have a prominent ATC shout under the front buffer beam. I am waiting for a RTR manufacturer to provide one that plugs into a NEM pocket.

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Another point; the Dapol CADs don’t have a prominent ATC shout under the front buffer beam. I am waiting for a RTR manufacturer to provide one that plugs into a NEM pocket.

Beer and Apple; what can I say. Sorry!

[The Stationmaster]

Indeed, just seen this myself.

 

Bullet points for those unable to see the above:

• 6 variants of GWR Mogul, of the 5390-7321 number series.
• 7 variants of GWR Large Praire 5101 class 
• Both expected Q1 2019

Features for both include next 18 decoder with 'no-tool' fitting through the smokebox door, firebox glow, and all wheel pickup..

 

Looks like I've got a busy little day listing this little lot...

 

It says 

 

Superb!

 

Dapol are sweeping up a few of the remaining GWR mid-twentieth century locos to be done to 21st century standards!

 

Think that just leaves a new Saint, Manor, Hawksworth County and the 15/16xx pannier to be done now - all other (steam) classes you could expect to see anywhere on the GWR system on 1st January 1948 are now available - or planned to be available soon - to modern standards. .

 

Congratulations Dapol; if these are good models you'll rake it in - I'd need three of each alone....

 

One wonders if this 'out of the blue' announcement - with no build up - is a result of Chirk catching wind of news to come out of Barwell and Sandwich in January...?

 

CoY

The $64,000 question is of course 'if they are good models' - because if they aren't then that is the field well and truly knackered for us ever actually seeing some decent models of these two types.  And rather worryingly I see it says many original GA drawings were used' which as anybody who knows anything about Swindon drawings will realise is the last thing you should do as Swindon GA drawings are known to have differences from what the factory actually built.  The only truly accurate Swindon drawings for locos are the pipe drawings which were drawn from what the factory was actually building rather than what the GA drawings said they were supposed to be building.  There are certainly one or two oddities in the CAD of the large prairie which suggest that it might indeed owe more to looking at drawings than the real things and indeed more at looking at a 3150 than 5101 class engines with the wrong rainstrips although getting the front boiler cladding band in the wrong place is less easily explained (unless someone has got in the wrong place on a preserved engine).

 

Sorry to be picky but it does look as if somebody has been rushing and not done their research properly which does indeed make me wonder if they've got wind of what might be underway elsewhere - some Chinese concerns can be a bit 'leaky' so I've heard and maybe even some folk a lot closer to our own shores?

[Miss Prism]

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by Miss Prism
image reinstated

[Ian Hargrave]

Well, Hornby continuing to churn out their ex-Airfix relic and Bachmann neglecting to retool their long-discontinued Mogul has brought wholly predictable claim jumps.

 

Might it stimulate Bachmann to get their finger out with the Manor at long last?

 

John

 

If it is that simple.Dapol's timing on this...within a month of both major players announcements...leaves me with a suspicion of upstaging. Though of course they have a perfect right to so do. We have heard enough of the problems of duplication here.If this is to be the case then I hope it is properly handled..claim jumping notwithstanding.We have only the B4 currently in production,so Dapol in its present form is a newcomer to rtr steam loco modelling.Their introduction seems likely scheduled some 12 to 18 months hence,revealing its hand early.

 

Bachmann are slow and methodical in approach...but there have been rumours of development even there.Hornby on the other hand frequently surprise in their capacity to develop and market new models with surprising speed and the postponement of grandstanding their new range at Warley may have been a factor in this.

 

Whoever does them....I just hope they get it right.We do not want yet another Dean Goods saga.

[coachmann]

The list of proposed liveries is an odd one. No unlined black versions. Nothing with post 1956 totem.

Edited December 15, 2017 by coachmann

[GWR8700]

Fantastic news, a great surprise!

The DCC arrangement is interesting, unusual not to be putting the chip in the tender, I hope it will still have plenty of weight.

[The Johnster]

I imagine the chip position is a matter of standardisation; the same chassis is apparently to be used for both models.

[adb968008]

Took me a while to spot this thread, can’t be a big step to a Manor either.

 

Both options are very good choices, looking forwards to this.

[sp1]

Oh dear!

I wonder if anyone has been advising Hornby regarding paint colour for one of these.........

[Miss Prism]

Nothing with post 1956 totem.

 

Cheer up, coach! Mechanically, everything is post-1956.

 

OOoooooo, I'm getting that déjà vu feeling all over again...

[Dunsignalling]

If it is that simple.Dapol's timing on this...within a month of both major players announcements...leaves me with a suspicion of upstaging. Though of course they have a perfect right to so do. We have heard enough of the problems of duplication here.If this is to be the case then I hope it is properly handled..claim jumping notwithstanding.We have only the B4 currently in production,so

 

Dapol in its present form is a newcomer to rtr steam loco modelling.

 

Their introduction seems likely scheduled some 12 to 18 months hence,revealing its hand early.

 

Bachmann are slow and methodical in approach...but there have been rumours of development even there.Hornby on the other hand frequently surprise in their capacity to develop and market new models with surprising speed and the postponement of grandstanding their new range at Warley may have been a factor in this.

 

Whoever does them....I just hope they get it right.We do not want yet another Dean Goods saga.

In 4mm, yes, but they've made a pretty good job of their O gauge releases so far.

 

John

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

In 4mm, yes, but they've made a pretty good job of their O gauge releases so far.

 

John

 

And I am not suggesting that they could not produce a "proper job".

[Tim Dubya]

or even the pre-grouping SECR and LSWR stuff for the Southern.

What pre-grouping LSWR stuff? Unless I'm missing sumfink.

[Edwardian]

What pre-grouping LSWR stuff? Unless I'm missing sumfink.

 

The Hornby M7 in 2 of its various livery variants, err, that's it; everything else is "ex"

[Edwardian]

Thinking in terms of the South Devon mainline in the '30s, I am idly wondering whether I can derive a Mogul with a weighted front buffer beam, or, indeed, a 3150 from the Prairie.  Must dig the books out and study the CAD images. 

[Dunsignalling]

The Hornby M7 in 2 of its various livery variants, err, that's it; everything else is "ex"

And in most cases, "modified ex-" to boot.

[The Johnster]

Maybe I am slightly biased in that I do need E140 B sets, but to make a decent job of the model requires drilling out every single door handle and correctly recessing them, filling the fictional window on one side, rebuilding the underframe so that the boxes are in the correct place, add a flat headstock (and square shanked GWR buffers).  While a lot of that is fairly straight forward (and I have done it myself on my models), sorting the door handles is hugely time consuming (and so distinctive on the prototype).  Having tried to sort the door handles before its incredibly time consuming to make a good job of ​etched sides would make it a lot quicker...

 

​​Plenty suitable for suburban runs in the Bristol division and west, though again I would completely accept I am biased.  There is only one non corridor working on the South Devon mainline in 1947, and I am already half way through modelling it.  

 

The doorhandle point is a good one, but one doubts that a new release would be competitively or reasonably priced and still include the etched separately attached handles needed for the job (my set retains the moulded handles and I try not to think about it too much.  I have, over the years, completed the tick list of your other jobs along with a repaint into BR 1949 crimson from the odd Airfix purple, painting the interiors, fitting new glazing which reveals the thickness of the body sides but is an overall improvement on the Airfix jam jar windows, and provided 'first' and 'no smoking' transfers to the windows.  The single biggest improvements were the new glazing and proper buffers, but filling in the surplus window has had made a big difference as well.  

 

But I would still like a 'proper' rake of non-gangwayed GW coaches for my South Wales layout, or at least an all-third as a strengthener, and a new B set would make that even more unlikely.  I'd still buy one if it was better than the Airfix, though.

 

Back to prairies; it has occurred that, once a new Dapol prairie replaces my old Airfix, that model would make a good basis for Tondu's 3100, as a proposed planned City of Truro plastic kit boilered cut and shut with new wheels.  It was used on the daily Porthcawl-Cardiff train, but Rule 1 might take it up my valley occasionally!

 

What pre-grouping LSWR stuff? Unless I'm missing sumfink.

The gate stock.

[The Stationmaster]

Thinking in terms of the South Devon mainline in the '30s, I am idly wondering whether I can derive a Mogul with a weighted front buffer beam, or, indeed, a 3150 from the Prairie.  Must dig the books out and study the CAD images. 

 

The CAD suggests to me that they might already be part way there for a 3150 (see previous post), the cab roof profile also looks a bit odd for a 5101 but that might just be down to the way the CAD is shaded  It also suggests that in order to do the prairie they might have simply 'slotted in' the boiler from the mogul hence getting that boiler cladding band in the wrong place.

 

Another worrying point is that if someone else is already working on the prairie might they also be working on coaches to go with it?  Are Dapol also working on suiytable coaches for these two engines or are they going to kill off what might have been a more usefu project from someone else?

[phil gollin]

.

 

Not my cup of tea, but I sincerely hope that Dapol make some money out of these (and the GWR/WR modellers enjoy them).

 

.

[57xx]

The list of proposed liveries is an odd one. No unlined black versions. Nothing with post 1956 totem.

 

Do some modelling? You know, like you always tell everyone else to do.

[Dunsignalling]

 

The gate stock.

 

The Gate Sets are modelled in the form as modified by the Southern Railway in the early 1930s.

 

John

[tomparryharry]

On a slightly serious note here, may I suggest the following rules apply?

 

Naturally, we all want the best possible model, with the least amount of fuss.

 

Now, Dapol aren't saints. They will get some little bits out of place here & there.

 

We're all a fairly knowledgeable & friendly  bunch of people, so I respectfully suggest this:-

 

If there is a  boo-boo, a polite post here, backed up with documentary evidence will carry far more weight than using a megaphone. Either that, or a polite e-mail. Dapol will, I'm sure, read through our posts.

 

The term "a more accurate solution" is far preferable to "you've got it wrong". Or, "they've got it wrong".

 

If I've got a choice of honey or vinegar, I'll choose honey, unless it's chips.

 

Hmmmm. Saturday.... Chips.....

 

Have a good weekend, folks.

 

Ian.