Sir TophamHatt Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 What's the difference between a Next18 decoder and a Lenz Silver+ v2 for example? I guess it's the number of functions? So a Lenz Silver+ can cope with x amount of functions/sounds/lights but an 18 or 21 can cope with more? I was reading in a copy of Model Rail that led me to Hattons (?) who were suggesting Bachmann are starting to look at Next18 as their default decoders now. Plus, I've ordered the J72, which comes with a "Next18 socket" - does this mean the Lenz Silver+ v2 or Zimo MX decoders I have already won't fit? On a side note, Hattons also suggested the new Next18 decoders are slightly smaller than many on the market as the pins "don't stick out" - I am looking for a couple of small decoders, hence buying the Zimo MX versions as I have a couple of locos (Thomas' Emily for example) where there's next to no space for a decoder to be hardwired in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2018 If a loco has a Next18 socket then you need a Next18 decoder - a 21-pin won't fit. Lenz have a Silver V2 decoder in the Next18 format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 What's the difference between a Next18 decoder and a Lenz Silver+ v2 for example? NeXT is a decoder socket design. Its one of several sockets around. It comes in two forms (just to confuse the hell out of modellers), Next18 and Next18S. The "S" means "sound" and has some of the pins used for speakers. The non-S version has extra functions. I guess it's the number of functions? So a Lenz Silver+ can cope with x amount of functions/sounds/lights but an 18 or 21 can cope with more? Its existence is driven, in part, by number of functions. When compared to a previous 6-pin "N gauge" decoder (two lighting functions), the eight pin connector (three lighting functions). I was reading in a copy of Model Rail that led me to Hattons (?) who were suggesting Bachmann are starting to look at Next18 as their default decoders now. Possibly for N-gauge, where Next18 (and 18S) were intended to be used. I'd hope they'd go for Plux for OO and larger. But, the UK model suppliers have a glorious history of adopting incorrect, confusing and obsolete decoder sockets. Plus, I've ordered the J72, which comes with a "Next18 socket" - does this mean the Lenz Silver+ v2 or Zimo MX decoders I have already won't fit? Unless your decoders have a Next plug, then they don't fit without lots of re-wiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 If anyone knows where to get hold of a cheap Next18 blanking plate i'd be interested in knowing where as I have a loco that requires one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2018 'Next18' describes the plug/socket arrangement, in the same way as '6-pin', '8-pin' and '21-pin'. In simple terms you need the same pin pattern on the decoder as on the locomotive's socket. So for 'Next18' fitted loco you buy a 'Next18' decoder, an '8-pin' fitted loco and '8-pin' decoder, and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2018 I have fitted Next 18 Zimo decoders into three locos without difficulty. They run obediently, too. This is a very neat standard compared with some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) On a side note, Hattons also suggested the new Next18 decoders are slightly smaller than many on the market as the pins "don't stick out" - I am looking for a couple of small decoders, hence buying the Zimo MX versions as I have a couple of locos (Thomas' Emily for example) where there's next to no space for a decoder to be hardwired in. Possibly for N-gauge, where Next18 (and 18S) were intended to be used. I'd hope they'd go for Plux for OO and larger. But, the UK model suppliers have a glorious history of adopting incorrect, confusing and obsolete decoder sockets. Unfortunately not, they have started fitting them in OO models! (including some which already have something else so two versions of a current chassis are now available!) I would rather have a non-dismantle method of decoder fitting e.g. in an under chassis module on modern traction or under the coal load in a steam loco rather than this proliferation of decoders currently in use. The nearest we have had is the Hattons DJM 48XX with a 6 pin in the smoke box, accessed by opening the door. Keith Edited January 2, 2018 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2018 I would rather have a non-dismantle method of decoder fitting e.g. in an under chassis module on modern traction or under the coal load in a steam loco rather than this proliferation of decoders currently in use. The nearest we have had is the Hattons DJM 48XX with a 6 pin in the smoke box, accessed by opening the door. The Kernow 0298 has that as well. Two of my Next 18 installations have been on Tillig HOm 2-10-2s - lift off the cab, remove a baffle and there is the socket. Pretty simple really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2018 I would rather have a non-dismantle method of decoder fitting e.g. in an under chassis module on modern traction or under the coal load in a steam loco rather than this proliferation of decoders currently in use. The nearest we have had is the Hattons DJM 48XX with a 6 pin in the smoke box, accessed by opening the door. Keith Or the Bachmann 350/450 Desiro. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibushe Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 If anyone knows where to get hold of a cheap Next18 blanking plate i'd be interested in knowing where as I have a loco that requires one! Hi. I think I have one. If I have its yours for free. I will be back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thanks for the explanations everyone Will wait until the J70 model is finished before buying a decoder. Luckily I have about 5/6 trains still to fit decoders, but have less than that in the 8-pin ones that I'll have to hardwire anyway. I guess I just have to look at the train and decide if it has lights or other functions. Many of mine don't have any other functions apart from forward and back so I should be okay to use up the Lenz and Zimo's I have. Thanks all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I have been a Next 18 user for some time now many Continental locos use them, they are very good easy to install and do what they are intended to do! I have recently transferred a Next18S (sound decoder) from a Bachmann class 40 to another Bachman class 40 ( why you may ask? from a blue to a green one, the chassis are cosmetically different) the whole job took less than 10 mins. Looking a Dapols latest announcements (2 WR Steam Locos) it appears they will use Next 18 decoders and the installation appears very easy, it seems that manufacturers are fast approaching the plug & play concept. The IOM retailer has next 18 at a good price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 Why are NeXt 18 plug & play when e.g. 21MTC aren't? Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Well, the 21 pin is more 'plug and perforate fingers, play with elastoplast', 'unplug and bend pins, play about straightening them', in style I suppose? What Next 18 offers is neatness. This one looks a decent candidate for positioning at the end of a slot into which the decoder is pushed. Potentially none of the 'take the body off' fiddle to get access to the decoder socket, a development which is by now a little overdue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 Well, the 21 pin is more 'plug and perforate fingers, play with elastoplast', 'unplug and bend pins, play about straightening them', in style I suppose? What Next 18 offers is neatness. This one looks a decent candidate for positioning at the end of a slot into which the decoder is pushed. Potentially none of the 'take the body off' fiddle to get access to the decoder socket, a development which is by now a little overdue? Never had a problem with 21 pin and I am Mr Banana Fingers IMHO A better bet would be something more akin to a Micro SD where it can be pushed into a slot or a Sim type card where a cover Is lifted, decoder placed in carrier and cover closed. The NeXt 18 still needs to be inserted onto the socket from above like most of the others. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2018 Never had a problem with 21 pin and I am Mr Banana Fingers IMHO A better bet would be something more akin to a Micro SD where it can be pushed into a slot or a Sim type card where a cover Is lifted, decoder placed in carrier and cover closed. The NeXt 18 still needs to be inserted onto the socket from above like most of the others. Keith As with everything, some installations are easier than others. I found on Rail87 X5500/5800 Mobylette railcars that the lighting etc pcb was installed above the seats, and had to have several screws removed to be liberated, because the 21-pin decoder needed to be underneath, and installation was otherwise impossible. I still find too many DCC sockets of all configurations which have been designed-in as an afterthought, making the term DCC-ready a bit of a stretch. Next 18 is small and neat and has contacts rather than pins. And the Zimo non-sound decoders I bought were not much more than half the cost of TCS direct 8-pin decoders, which are at least twice as bulky, from the same dealer. Yes, in the early days we all happily butchered wiring and used the soldering iron, but some current loco designs really could do better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
all Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Has the DCC controller.decoder ever been conceived from a driver's/engineer's perspective? A driver of a diesel leaving a station, for example, would I imagine be controlling speed and not all the individual events or 'functions' that make it happen, whistle and bell being the exception. Might one imagine a decoder/controller that has organized the myriad of functions in such a way as to truly mimic the driver's operation in the cab? I do see a wee bit of this automata now and so the technology is available for "the compleat engineer" experience! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2018 Has the DCC controller.decoder ever been conceived from a driver's/engineer's perspective? A driver of a diesel leaving a station, for example, would I imagine be controlling speed and not all the individual events or 'functions' that make it happen, whistle and bell being the exception. Might one imagine a decoder/controller that has organized the myriad of functions in such a way as to truly mimic the driver's operation in the cab? I do see a wee bit of this automata now and so the technology is available for "the compleat engineer" experience! If you are using model railway software you can get the program to control the succesive sounds emanating from a loco as it accelerates, coasts, brakes etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Has the DCC controller.decoder ever been conceived from a driver's/engineer's perspective? A driver of a diesel leaving a station, for example, would I imagine be controlling speed and not all the individual events or 'functions' that make it happen, whistle and bell being the exception. Might one imagine a decoder/controller that has organized the myriad of functions in such a way as to truly mimic the driver's operation in the cab? I do see a wee bit of this automata now and so the technology is available for "the compleat engineer" experience! This is very much, way off topic. I'm not quite sure what you mean, but if you mean a sort of recreation, or partial semblance of the drivers cab, then yes that has been attempted in various ways. In the simplest form, just speed dials... A bit more sophisticated, touch screen control with a working graphic of the cab or footplate, complete with working virtual controls (and video, if a loco mounted camera is included)...... Quite a bit older and using physical control levers..... A software train simulator control desk, adapted to work with a Zimo DCC system..... This guy has gone the whole hog and linked his DCC system and on-board video to a homemade cab simulator..... Edited January 5, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Why are NeXt 18 plug & play when e.g. 21MTC aren't? Cheers Keith No lining up pins simply push the next 18 into the corresponding receptacle, also worth checking out Dapol's latest announcements for their 2 GWR locos bringing true plug & play closer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibushe Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Hi. I think I have one. If I have its yours for free. I will be back. Sorry mate. Cant find it. Now where did I leave the wife.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2018 No lining up pins simply push the next 18 into the corresponding receptacle, also worth checking out Dapol's latest announcements for their 2 GWR locos bringing true plug & play closer. Plug & Play means works straight out of the box no faffing around. As one needs to set speed, acceleration, DCC address etc.etc. IMHO it's not (and never will be) plug & play. The slide in carrier could apply to any DCC decoder so NeXt 18 doesn't come into it. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Sorry mate. Cant find it. Now where did I leave the wife.? No worries. Thanks for looking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibushe Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 FOUND IT. HOW DO I GET IT TO YOU. ITS FREE. No worries. Thanks for looking.FOUND IT HOW DO I GET IT TO YOU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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