Gauge O Guild Kettering Show 2018

[polybear]

An "Important Message about the Kettering Show" has been added to the GOG Home Page:

 

http://www.gauge0guild.com/Board%20statement%20to%20members.pdf?id=2249

[2ManySpams]

An "Important Message about the Kettering Show" has been added to the GOG Home Page:

 

http://www.gauge0guild.com/Board%20statement%20to%20members.pdf?id=2249

 

A positive response and an acknowledgement there were issues on the day and with prior communication. Hopefully a catalyst for change.

[cromptonnut]

Interesting.

 

"The Guild does not currently have a Facebook or other social media presence. We are currently looking for more volunteers to take this forward. If you feel you have the necessary skills and experience to handle this task please contact me."

 

I offered to do just that during my membership... and there was little to no interest.  At least they have realised that they need to catch up, hopefully the page will be open to all and not a 'show your card to get in' group otherwise it has little use.

 

It's almost tempting to rejoin and offer my services...

[81A Oldoak]

Interesting.

 

"The Guild does not currently have a Facebook or other social media presence. We are currently looking for more volunteers to take this forward. If you feel you have the necessary skills and experience to handle this task please contact me."

 

I offered to do just that during my membership... and there was little to no interest.  At least they have realised that they need to catch up, hopefully the page will be open to all and not a 'show your card to get in' group otherwise it has little use.

 

It's almost tempting to rejoin and offer my services...

Steady the Buffs. 

[polybear]

Interesting letter in the Feb 2018 issue of the GOG Gazette (page 73) entitled "The Future of the GOG".

Firstly, interesting in that it was published in the first place (full marks for that).

It starts off with:

"In my view, the Guild's future is dismal due to poor management and a total lack of leadership".

It goes on to claim:

".....from our, is it nine, directors who collectively claim tens of thousands of pounds in expenses".

And further on:

"Could not the Guild's huge funds, more than one hundred and fifty thousands pounds, that has been available for years...."

 

There is no response to any of these claims; I've no idea if they are correct or not (presumably the Annual Accounts would confirm or otherwise?).  What I do know is that the March Issue should prove a good read.....

[John K]

Interesting letter in the Feb 2018 issue of the GOG Gazette (page 73) entitled "The Future of the GOG".

Firstly, interesting in that it was published in the first place (full marks for that).

It starts off with:

"In my view, the Guild's future is dismal due to poor management and a total lack of leadership".

It goes on to claim:

".....from our, is it nine, directors who collectively claim tens of thousands of pounds in expenses".

And further on:

"Could not the Guild's huge funds, more than one hundred and fifty thousands pounds, that has been available for years...."

 

There is no response to any of these claims; I've no idea if they are correct or not (presumably the Annual Accounts would confirm or otherwise?).  What I do know is that the March Issue should prove a good read.....

One of the reasons that the Guild will thrive and prosper is that it is an open organisation that does not mute or silence criticism and comment.

Stories of the size of the Guild's reserves are a touch exaggerated I'm afraid.

John K

[Happy Hippo]

Interesting letter in the Feb 2018 issue of the GOG Gazette (page 73) entitled "The Future of the GOG".

Firstly, interesting in that it was published in the first place (full marks for that).

It starts off with:

"In my view, the Guild's future is dismal due to poor management and a total lack of leadership".

It goes on to claim:

".....from our, is it nine, directors who collectively claim tens of thousands of pounds in expenses".

And further on:

"Could not the Guild's huge funds, more than one hundred and fifty thousands pounds, that has been available for years...."

 

There is no response to any of these claims; I've no idea if they are correct or not (presumably the Annual Accounts would confirm or otherwise?).  What I do know is that the March Issue should prove a good read.....

When I first read the Feb gazette, I did wonder if this letter should have been in the April edition!

 

As you say the next issue should be an interesting read as I presume there will be a response from the committee.

 

However, I would suggest that this matter is not turned into some form of love/hate the G0G discussion further on in these pages as the G0G has no official presence on social media if the link in your #202 includes RMWeb, and would be unable to put their side of the argument should the follow up posts turn slightly vitriolic.

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

One of the reasons that the Guild will thrive and prosper is that it is an open organisation that does not mute or silence criticism and comment.

Stories of the size of the Guild's reserves are a touch exaggerated I'm afraid.

John K

How about an answer to all the points the poster raised?

[Western Star]

One of the reasons that the Guild will thrive and prosper is that it is an open organisation that does not mute or silence criticism and comment.

Two words...  Jim Snowdon.

[cromptonnut]

As you say the next issue should be an interesting read as I presume there will be a response from the committee.

 

Why​ wait?  Abbreviated accounting information for registered companies is publicly available at Companies House as they legally have to be filed each year.

 

​The link to the Guild - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02640556/filing-history

 

Lots of unexciting things on there that all companies have - director changes and that sort of thing - but abbreviated accounts are downloadable (and should be available to members anyway).  There are various ways to interpret accounts, as anyone will tell you - however the basic things such as cash in hand, and upcoming liabilities/expenses are summarised usefully.

 

 

And further on:

"Could not the Guild's huge funds, more than one hundred and fifty thousands pounds, that has been available for years...."

 

 

If you scroll down to "05 Jul 2017 Total exemption full accounts made up to 28 February 2017" you can see overall balance after liabilities of £105,899 and "cash in hand" at £146,543.

 

 

Stories of the size of the Guild's reserves are a touch exaggerated I'm afraid.

 

 

page 2 shows an overall balance of £105,899 - down from £154,891 in 2016.  If you go a little further back to find the 2016 accounts you see there is a balance of £175,748.  2015 shows £181,962. You can go back to 1996 and track it if you are so inclined.

 

As a non member of course it's of no concern of mine, however I would expect a lot of members to be very interested as to where that £75,000 loss over 2 years has come from.  It's quite concerning though to see 28 in the M&A which basically states members have no right to inspect the accounts.

Edited March 12, 2018 by cromptonnut

[peter220950]

As a non member of course it's of no concern of mine

Very true, which begs the question why you bother.

 

however I would expect a lot of members to be very interested as to where that £75,000 loss over 2 years has come from.

Not really, it was fully explained at the time, and subsquently. As you note full accounts are published every year and circulated to members, the controlled reduction in the bank balance was achieved by giving members more for their money than they paid with things such as subsidised Exhibition entrance and bumper sized Gazette publication. It was a controlled reduction that the management undertook precisely because the reserves had built up. Again not really of any concern to non-members, or even ex-members with an axe to grind.

 

Peter

Edited March 12, 2018 by peter220950

[cromptonnut]

Exactly the kind of response that reinforces the reputation of elitism within the Guild. Non members are unimportant, and what you call an 'axe to grind' is simply a result of the appalling treatment, for which apologies were never forthcoming, I recieved. Didn't even get a refund of unused membership fees.

 

It is a real shame that only one organisation dominates the club market for O gauge modellers especially for those under 70.

[peter220950]

Then with all your ideals and enthusiasm why not start your own? Its much easier to criticise volunteers doing a job than actually doing it yourself.

 

Peter (under 70, not a Facebook user as I understand from youth it's for old people)

Edited March 12, 2018 by peter220950

[cromptonnut]

There are discussions about in facebook about a more modern image based O gauge organisation which I am following with interest.  Having volunteered myself in model organisations previously I know it can involve a lot of work.

 

​Until recently, O gauge has mainly been the domain of scratch builders and kit makers.  It's only with the release of easy kits and rtr and more reasonable priced stock that "the average modeller" has been able to get into O gauge (which was always known as 'the senior scale' anyway) and that it's started to be anything but a specialist interest.

 

​

[2ManySpams]

Judging from the number of new 7mm threads on this forum, there's certainly a fair amount of interest in O Gauge - many of whom, like myself, are converts from 4mm.

 

There's potential to be tapped by the G0G and IMO it would be worthwhile for the Guild to look into why new entrants either don't join or do so and then leave disheartened after their first year.

 

In that last respect, being charged a full years membership at a show and then finding out a few months later that it's annual not 12month duration leaves a bitter taste. I would suggest good will could be gained by a pro-rata membership fee depending on when through the year you join? Not something complicated like a daily reduction but 25% after each quarter year would help and leave you feeling less like you'd been stung.

[F-UnitMad]

.....it would be worthwhile for the Guild to look into why new entrants either don't join or do so and then leave disheartened after their first year.

In that last respect, being charged a full years membership at a show and then finding out a few months later that it's annual not 12month duration leaves a bitter taste. I would suggest good will could be gained by a pro-rata membership fee depending on when through the year you join? Not something complicated like a daily reduction but 25% after each quarter year would help and leave you feeling less like you'd been stung.

My experience exactly (as in post #101 on this thread). As I recall there was no information at the time of joining that made it clear that membership would only be until the next March. The more I think about that, the more I think that such lack of clarity & explanation could border on the fraudulent.

O scale is booming in the UK at the moment*, but while recognising what the Guild did for the scale in the past, I get the feeling the current boom is despite - not because of - the Guild.

 

*As a contrast to the USA, where 2-rail O Scale as we know it here is a very small niche indeed, totally swamped by 3-rail O Gauge (note the distinctions of 'Scale' & 'Gauge') to the point where there are real concerns that 2-rail could die out completely in time.

[cromptonnut]

In that last respect, being charged a full years membership at a show and then finding out a few months later that it's annual not 12month duration leaves a bitter taste. I would suggest good will could be gained by a pro-rata membership fee depending on when through the year you join? Not something complicated like a daily reduction but 25% after each quarter year would help and leave you feeling less like you'd been stung.

 

Many​ much larger organisations manage 'staggered renewal dates' of 12 months membership reoccurring on the day you joined, so there's absolutely no need for there to be this to be happening.  It's simply a database management issue which is within the capability of even the most basic of organisational tools - let alone a 'professional company' that does it on behalf of the Guild?

[chris p bacon]

In that last respect, being charged a full years membership at a show and then finding out a few months later that it's annual not 12month duration leaves a bitter taste. I would suggest good will could be gained by a pro-rata membership fee depending on when through the year you join? Not something complicated like a daily reduction but 25% after each quarter year would help and leave you feeling less like you'd been stung.

 

Giving a viewpoint from another society membership officer I don't think I'd be happy if I joined and that were the case.

 

I will say that it is very time heavy to administer a system with differing subscription periods,  as a society  we run from 1st August to 31st July and to overcome the shorter periods of subs we send everything for the subs year and should someone apply to join in May/June we offer 2 years subs. 

 

The issue that could crop up with short periods of membership ( say 3 months) is that someone joins and pays a minimal amount but is able to claim full member discount on any society publications/events but not renew after the 3 months is up.

 

Many​ much larger organisations manage 'staggered renewal dates' of 12 months membership reoccurring on the day you joined, so there's absolutely no need for there to be this to be happening.  It's simply a database management issue which is within the capability of even the most basic of organisational tools - let alone a 'professional company' that does it on behalf of the Guild?

 

 

Not speaking for the Guild, but for a lot of societies it is so much more than a 'simple database issue'  if the Guild use a company to deal with renewals, having variable dates would increase the cost exponentially.

[2ManySpams]

Just copied from the Guild website:

 

"The Guild membership year runs from March 1st to February 28th/29th.

New members joining from November 4th to February 28th/29th pay the full subscription which then lasts until the subsequent February 28th/29th."

 

Trick seems to be to join between the November and February.

[Osgood]

I joined one group (I think the LNWR Society?) 2/3rd through a year and they sent me the entire year's publications which seemed simple and very fair.

 

I can see there are certainly some issues which have to be addressed by the Guild.

And it may well be that simply addressing the issues will not be enough for those who cannot forgive and forget, so they will not rejoin.

But they should be addressed anyway.

 

Yes there can be another 0 Gauge group formed - but will it be able to build the resources needed to stage a set of substantial trade shows?

If membership of the existing Guild is reduced very substantially by the formation of a new group, it could well spell the end for the existing shows.

 

For me the main (I suppose the only one, really) benefit of membership is the opportunity to get to some of these gatherings of suppliers.

I would not thank anyone for causing them to cease unless they can be replaced with something equally good or better.

 

Worth considering carefully before diluting the water too much.

Is it better to try again to steer the direction of the existing group in a more accommodating direction?

 

There seems to be some momentum gathering for making changes for the better.

If anyone wants to make constructive representations to the Guild in this respect then surely these points can be raised on their behalf on the Guild's forum by an existing member?

[F-UnitMad]

Just copied from the Guild website:

 

"The Guild membership year runs from March 1st to February 28th/29th.

New members joining from November 4th to February 28th/29th pay the full subscription which then lasts until the subsequent February 28th/29th."

 

Trick seems to be to join between the November and February.

I bet it's in the "small print"? - certainly wasn't explained to me at time of joining (September) Just left to the new member to find out for themselves, later.

[Mike Bellamy]

I bet it's in the "small print"? - certainly wasn't explained to me at time of joining (September) Just left to the new member to find out for themselves, later.

 

 

Not in small print - it's actually in bold on the application form

 

http://www.gauge0guild.com/downloads/appform3.pdf

 

However I haven't seen anywhere that you get back issues of the magazine so that you get 4 issues for your short term subscription - I know that happens with other sociesties that have a fixed renewal date.

 

.

[2ManySpams]

I bet it's in the "small print"? - certainly wasn't explained to me at time of joining (September) Just left to the new member to find out for themselves, later.

To be fair it's a single size font on the website, so no, not small print:

 

 

I'd agree though it certainly wasn't communicated when joining at a show, more like join now and get in the show cheaper.

[F-UnitMad]

Not in small print - it's actually in bold on the application form

 

http://www.gauge0guild.com/downloads/appform3.pdf

 

However I haven't seen anywhere that you get back issues of the magazine so that you get 4 issues for your short term subscription - I know that happens with other sociesties that have a fixed renewal date.

 

.

I must have filled in some sort of Form that time at Telford when I joined. If it was on there, I didn't see it, nor was my attention drawn to it at the desk, which is what I have an issue with really, even more than a reduced time of membership, which in real terms cost more than the "saving" on ticket price between non-member & member.

I've quite happily paid the non-member rate for Telford ever since, even when I've been on my own, and managed just half a day.

[cromptonnut]

I can see there are certainly some issues which have to be addressed by the Guild.

And it may well be that simply addressing the issues will not be enough for those who cannot forgive and forget, so they will not rejoin.

But they should be addressed anyway.

 

I personally would have no problem rejoining.  However,

 

1) The benefits of membership as they stand currently to me personally are minimal, most of my needs can be met through other sources such as RMWeb and Facebook.  The one lacking thing are the small traders who do not advertise outside of the Gazette and do not have a web presence of any kind enabling me to find them.  

2) The Reading show, which is a non-Guild event, is convenient to me geographically, other Guild show locations are not.  Therefore the penalty of paying a non-reduced entry fee is much less than the cost of membership.

3) Area groups are mostly irrelevant to me as my current employment has a shift pattern which means I'd only be likely to make it once every 3 weeks - assuming they meet weekly; otherwise it may only be once every couple of months; the same reason I haven't joined a local general model club.

4) I'm probably blackballed anyway so it's all cosmetic.