Why are tension couplings still legal?

[Clive Mortimore]

I always fit MK2 tension locks to all of my stock which makes it an absolute doddle to couple and uncouple stock at shows. Being small they are easy to work with using a simple plasticard uncoupling tool.

Hi Lloyd

 

I have an improved version with a metal handle, cos I kept braking my plastic one.

All made the other day.

 

And they work.

[TheGunslinger]

On the subject , has anyone tried to make a spratt and Winkle NEM coupling , would be a nice idea 

I pondered on the subject and decided that it defeated some of the S&W's appeal. The current kit is a flat etch of up to 32 couplings with some magnets and wire, which makes it very cost effective to buy and post. The overall setup is incredibly simple which means whilst there is some difficulty in preparing sufficient area to mount the coupling, the design itself can be adapted to fit nearly any item of stock.

 

Which isn't to say it couldn't be done; the counterweight could be replaced with a tiny spring (Kadee have already demonstrated such setups can be reliable) and the entire thing made from plastic with a NEM clip on the end, easy sleazy. At that point though you basically have a slightly finer tension lock which would probably have the same obtrusive plastic loop arrangement unless manufacturers agreed to stick with fine gauge metal wire, and we can chase this rabbit down the hole discussing why don't we just replace the loops on the current OO tension locks with fine wire and so on and so forth...

 

Anyway, as The Johnster mentioned, nobody can agree on what height a NEM pocket it supposed to be at, and proper height alignment is a critical aspect of S&W couplings.

[alfsboy]

I use Kadees and a cocktail stick .simples

[rocor]

Has any manufacturer ever tried to subdue the appearance of these couplings by making them in clear plastic/resin?.

[The Johnster]

I paint mine track colour, and this helps them blend into the background.  At the same time, it is probably one of the reasons that my shunting pole needs a 1 watt led on it!

 

I have been having trouble with some coupling combinations, particularly Ratio 4 wheelers.  The solution might be to replace them with another type of t/lm, preferably NEM based as part of the problem is that these long wheelbase vehicles have rigid couplers, or to have another go at making a universal uncoupling spade like Clive's, something that defeated me last time and is difficult to deploy in some locations on my layout as access from the side is restricted.  I will try the replacement t/l route first and post the results.

[Coryton]

Has any manufacturer ever tried to subdue the appearance of these couplings by making them in clear plastic/resin?.

 

Not to my knowledge, and I've often wondered if there is a reason that nobody seems to have tried.

[Junctionmad]

I pondered on the subject and decided that it defeated some of the S&W's appeal. The current kit is a flat etch of up to 32 couplings with some magnets and wire, which makes it very cost effective to buy and post. The overall setup is incredibly simple which means whilst there is some difficulty in preparing sufficient area to mount the coupling, the design itself can be adapted to fit nearly any item of stock.

 

Which isn't to say it couldn't be done; the counterweight could be replaced with a tiny spring (Kadee have already demonstrated such setups can be reliable) and the entire thing made from plastic with a NEM clip on the end, easy sleazy. At that point though you basically have a slightly finer tension lock which would probably have the same obtrusive plastic loop arrangement unless manufacturers agreed to stick with fine gauge metal wire, and we can chase this rabbit down the hole discussing why don't we just replace the loops on the current OO tension locks with fine wire and so on and so forth...

 

Anyway, as The Johnster mentioned, nobody can agree on what height a NEM pocket it supposed to be at, and proper height alignment is a critical aspect of S&W couplings.

 

Actually I had a serious look myself at reworking an etch to achieve such beast.  There is a clear advantage and that is that modern , high detail RTRs can have a lot of detail that must be modified to clear the large " paddle "

 

The second is that while its true that many NEMS are wrong , equally many are correct , and most people in my experience , often fix the NEM pocket and then apply a NEM compatible coupler , most often of course Kadees

 

I personally think a brass etch version of the S&W, with a proper pivot and a small lead weight  could be a far smaller version of the current " paddle ".  The alternative as you say would be a spring , which is harder to organise within the paramerters of an etch .  

 

I was also thinking of etching the loop  and yes of course at the end of the day the S&W is really just a better form of TL.  But hey isnt that what we want 

[Dunsignalling]

Not to my knowledge, and I've often wondered if there is a reason that nobody seems to have tried.

I remember seeing some reviewed a few years back in one of the mags (before the advent of mini-tension locks), but they clearly disappeared without trace.

 

Hat. Coat. Gone. 

 

John

Edited April 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Il Grifone]

The correct height for a NEM coupling pocket is here (sorry it's in French - they appear to be waitng for someone to translate it)*.

 

http://www.morop.org/downloads/nem/fr/nem362_f.pdf

 

Since the settings for H0 and S are identical, it follows that 00 will also be the same.

 

The Bemo coupling is just a scaled down version of the 'standard' Continental loop coupling. This not to say that something less chunky and obtrusive is not an improvement..

 

* As usual, Google Translate's efforts require translation into English

Edited April 24, 2018 by Il Grifone

[andytrains]

Buffers Model Railways of Axminster do the following info sheet on couplings.

 

https://www.buffersmodelrailways.com/image/data/couplings.pdf

[ejstubbs]

The correct height for a NEM coupling pocket is here (sorry it's in French - they appear to be waitng for someone to translate it)*.

 

http://www.morop.org/downloads/nem/fr/nem362_f.pdf

 

Since the settings for H0 and S are identical, it follows that 00 will also be the same.

 

The Double O Gauge Association published the NEM pocket standard for OO gauge stock, in English, in 2007:

 

http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/couplings.htm

 

It does say:

 

"This pocket corresponds to that described in MOROP’s datasheet NEM362, and in case of any conflict, the values and measurements given in that document for HO should be considered as also definitive for 4mm stock"

[newbryford]

The Double O Gauge Association published the NEM pocket standard for OO gauge stock, in English, in 2007:

 

http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/couplings.htm

 

It does say:

 

"This pocket corresponds to that described in MOROP’s datasheet NEM362, and in case of any conflict, the values and measurements given in that document for HO should be considered as also definitive for 4mm stock"

 

Since when have manufacturers taken any notice of a society's standards?

 

(As an aside - even the mighty NMRA standards are bent/ignored/adjusted by manufacturers in certain areas of DCC decoder,CV settings -and no - I won't name them)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Ron Solly]

S

 

(As an aside - even the mighty NMRA standards are bent/ignored/adjusted by manufacturers in certain areas of DCC decoder,CV settings -and no - I won't name them)

 

Cheers,

Mick

  Mick, there are so many CV's that the NMRA have left for manufactures can use for their own decoders but I don't know any that do not follow the basic CVs' as per

https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.2.2_decoder_cvs_2012.07.pdf

[Talltim]

I remember seeing some reviewed a few years back in one of the mags (before the advent of mini-tension locks), but they clearly disappeared without trace.

 

Hat. Coat. Gone.

 

John

Been done in N with Rapido couplings

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83387-couplers-in-n-is-the-answer-clear/

[Stevelewis]

No other forms of torture are still allowed. Has anyone actually checked the Geneva Conventions? 

 

Once  KADEE COUPLINGS  were  discovered  in the UK well over  30 years  ago  I  used  them, still do, as  I write a new 00 project is under  way, I automatically  discard  the  tension  locks  and  fit  Kadees.

 

Why the  Manufacturers of  UK stock  still persist  with TLs is  beyond me!

 

As a matter of interest   I bought 4  Oxford/Hattons  ICE  Hoppers last week  of the 8  TL fitted couplings    3  already  had  the  hook parts loose in the  boxes!  Kadees  were  fitted  within  a very short  time  after they were delivered.

[Clive Mortimore]

Once  KADEE COUPLINGS  were  discovered  in the UK well over  30 years  ago  I  used  them, still do, as  I write a new 00 project is under  way, I automatically  discard  the  tension  locks  and  fit  Kadees.

 

Why the  Manufacturers of  UK stock  still persist  with TLs is  beyond me!

 

As a matter of interest   I bought 4  Oxford/Hattons  ICE  Hoppers last week  of the 8  TL fitted couplings    3  already  had  the  hook parts loose in the  boxes!  Kadees  were  fitted  within  a very short  time  after they were delivered.

Because they work. :scratchhead:

Edited April 25, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Ron Solly]

 

As a matter of interest   I bought 4  Oxford/Hattons  ICE  Hoppers last week  of the 8  TL fitted couplings    3  already  had  the  hook parts loose in the  boxes!  Kadees  were  fitted  within  a very short  time  after they were delivered.

 

I hope you reported that back to Hattons/Oxford ?

[Ron Solly]

Because they work. :scratchhead:

 

 They don't like working properly with mixed versions of T/S's though - try running both pulling and pushing with Lima wide bar & latest units from Bachmann !!  Nor do they look like real couplings.

[roundhouse]

I remember trying to couple just three or four wagons fitted with three link couplings on a fri nds loft layout. I spent a few hours trying to couple them and never got to actually drive the train

 

I use Kadees on my OO stock aswell as my HO stuff.

Edited April 25, 2018 by roundhouse

[Dunsignalling]

Once  KADEE COUPLINGS  were  discovered  in the UK well over  30 years  ago  I  used  them, still do, as  I write a new 00 project is under  way, I automatically  discard  the  tension  locks  and  fit  Kadees.

 

Why the  Manufacturers of  UK stock  still persist  with TLs is  beyond me!

 

As a matter of interest   I bought 4  Oxford/Hattons  ICE  Hoppers last week  of the 8  TL fitted couplings    3  already  had  the  hook parts loose in the  boxes!  Kadees  were  fitted  within  a very short  time  after they were delivered.

The loose hook syndrome happens a lot with Dapol wagons, too and is not uncommon with Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan.

 

Like you, I use Kadees so it's just a case of binning two items (plus, usually, the NEM mount as well) instead of one.

 

John

Edited April 25, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[davetheroad]

The loose hook syndrome happens a lot with Dapol wagons, too and is not uncommon with Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan.

 

Like you, I use Kadees so it's just a case of binning two items (plus, usually, the NEM mount as well) instead of one.

 

John

That happens too much for me as well. no I am not going to fit kadees!. The original tension locks had rigid bars and the Dapols are intentionally given side play. I glued mine solid for a much better performance when pushing wagons.  As a lot of my wagons live in fixed rakes maybe glueing the hooks in place might solve things

[Stevelewis]

I hope you reported that back to Hattons/Oxford ?

 

Its  hardly  a  real  issue  if  I were  to  use  the  TL/s  the  hooks  would  have  been   refitted in a  matter  of  seconds,  as  a  very  regular  Hattons   customer,  we often have  discussions  about  things   and   I am  aware  that  they  do  observe   Forums on a regular  basis.

[Stevelewis]

Because they work. :scratchhead:

 

That's  just  the  point,  they  do  work  we  all  know  that  but  not  always  reliably,  and  the  use of  an  alternative  coupling  does  allow   a  passenger  train  to  perform   more  like  the  real  thing,  not  like  an unfitted  freight

[Clive Mortimore]

All the alternatives that people put forward are as ugly on British stock as tension locks and if you don't line them up they don't work.

 

The wonderful Alex Jackson, 00 is too sloppy for them.

Kaydee's, well dangling on the front of a Jinty just looks so so wrong and if not lined up might as well not be there

Spratt and Winkle, the precision version of tension locks, again if not lined up.....

Dinghams, great if your stock only faces one way.

Hornby/ Roco, need lining up

The Bachmann version of the Rivarossi coupling used on their DMUs does the same as that EPB Ian mentioned, or do DMUs have slip coaches?

None of the above look anything like a British screw or three link coupling......and most of you don't fit your Kaydees where they should be fitted if you start jumping up and down about buckeyes on British stock.

 

NEM pockets and tension locks don't work but gotta have NEMs so people can change their couplings easily. Tension locks work best rigid not floppy.

 

Peco Simplex are equally as good as tension locks, I am just too lazy to convert my stock.

 

For most British stock then you should be fitting 3 link, screw etc type couplings and sprung buffers. But the trouble is they don't automatically couple and uncouple...."NO HAND OF GOD ON MY LAYOUT" and a train of 16 tonners fitted with them won't go round your 2nd radius curves without buffer locking.

I love three links.

 

 

 

 

 

[newbryford]

TLs work most of the time and they are suitable for the vast majority of people that play with small trains. As I said way back on page 1, they require the lowest maintenance of any coupling method I've ever used in 50 years or this hobby.

 

If the manufacturers started fitting Kadees or other couplings unless there is a very good reason to for specific items, there would be an outcry from far more people than those who regularly frequent RMW.

 

It's a bit like us driving on the left in the UK and most other places use the other side. It isn't going to change.

 

Like most aspects of this hobby, if people want to go ahead and change things for their own preferences - then crack on.

 

Cheers,

Mick