Which older RTR models do you still admire?

[great central]

Ok then, I'll stick my head above the parapet, firstly one which has already been mentioned in a good light the Triang EM2. I've posted photos of an improved one on here in the past, still looks the part to me with different pantographs mainly because the one I've done came as a bare body from a swap meet many years ago. Remember though that the original pantographs at least worked, more than some of the more modern electrics will have I understand.

Also from the Triang stable I think the Britannia was pretty decent, again with some improvement they look the part even standing alongside the more recent Hornby model, so long as you can forgive the short coupled wheelbase.

Now to get a little more controversial, I'm currently, after a good many years inaction, improving a Lima 87, yes I know it has many shortcomings but none of them have cost me more than £20, the last two (I have nine) cost me £15 the pair.

If I want a decent sized fleet to run reliably on a layout and look something like what they are supposed to be, with work they'll do for me.

I can't, and more importantly don't wish to, spend something around £150 for one loco when for about that and a bit of work I can get at least 4 that, to my eyes, look the part.

 

Coat, tin hat, running for the hills:-)

[Geep7]

As already mention on this thread, the Lima / Hornby Class 73, I think, still punches well above its weight and still holds up well against the new Dapol one, especially if it's given a bit of TLC and some weathering.

 

Below is my own example, the ends were repainted (rather than being self-coloured plastic). The underframe was repainted in Matt Black, and then the detail was painted in Tamiya Nato Black, which disguises the boxyness of the underframe. Then a bit of weathering.

 

[Owd Bob]

I always liked the Hornby Class 25, one which i converted to a class 24 and one into a class25/3. with the help of car filler and plastic card. I never had room for a layout and so i bought my loco' collection and kept them in drawers. All bought second hand and mainly un-boxed from the then new fangled idea called 'car boot sales' many a bargain was had, some for just a quid each. Some bad scanned pics' of 'em i recently found of my '00' diesel loco' collection, pics' taken in the 1984-85 era from memory.

 

  

[cobach47]

this one - it has taken a lot of effort but worth it

[ess1uk]

My mainline 56

[tomparryharry]

A 1960's vintage Triang 3F tender locomotive. It's what got me started as a kid. In fact, any of the Triang stuff from that period. To have lasted that long deserves some admiration.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[dj_crisp]

I only have Limby 73s and Lima 156s left from the old days that I like... and the 31 has a nice shape too. I grew up with Lima Locos and really enjoyed them. Both the 73 & 156 need a shed load of work on the underframes though.

 

Interesting thread... had me checking out if there are any "modern" releases that fall into the OP category of being old... After all Hornbys 50 is 15 years old (I think).

[bike2steam]

The first OO gauge loco I owned, - nearly 60 years ago.

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

Airfix 14xx

Triang B12

Most stuff by Mainline

[Colin_McLeod]

I think Rivarossi would have become a major player if their British outline models had been 4mm scale.

[Steamport Southport]

I think Rivarossi would have become a major player if their British outline models had been 4mm scale.

 

Same goes for Fleischmann with the Warship and especially the Bulleid coaches. Opportunity missed I feel.

 

http://www.british-ho.com/showcase/passenger-coaches/fleischmann_bulleid_coachstock_1.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[Dunsignalling]

I think Rivarossi would have become a major player if their British outline models had been 4mm scale.

 

 

Same goes for Fleischmann with the Warship and especially the Bulleid coaches. Opportunity missed I feel.

 

http://www.british-ho.com/showcase/passenger-coaches/fleischmann_bulleid_coachstock_1.htm

 

 

 

Jason

Something of a misfire in both cases, and a great pity (especially in the case of the Bulleid coaches IMHO).

 

The models seem to have been primarily intended as British outline "tasters" for their established clientele but neither company appears to have harboured real ambitions in the UK r-t-r market.

 

The fundamental problem was that the chosen scales (the width was to one, the height to another IIRC) were a compromise too many, even for those who had long tolerated the peculiarities of British OO. The significant price premium over what was customary in UK r-t-r at the time might not have mattered had they been made to 4mm scale. They could well have built up enough of a following to encourage a gradual expansion of the ranges. 

 

Either way, their toes-in-the-water revealed the temperature to be somewhat cooler than anybody hoped and no continental maker has tried anything similar since. The fate of Mainline and Airfix-GMR probably put paid to any further experimentation.

 

John

Edited July 9, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[tomparryharry]

Rivarossi HO parallel boiler Scot and LMS coaches. I'm still blown away by the quality of the models and finish when compared to other models of the same era.

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- Alex

I see what you mean, but I must respectfully disagree. Those cheese cutter wheels on the Rivarossi models need a Health & safety notice. Mind you, that crimson coach looks spot-on.

[frobisher]

I see what you mean, but I must respectfully disagree. Those cheese cutter wheels on the Rivarossi models need a Health & safety notice. Mind you, that crimson coach looks spot-on.

The contemporary Hornby wheels weren't exactly delicate...

[bike2steam]

Same goes for Fleischmann with the Warship and especially the Bulleid coaches. Opportunity missed I feel.

 

http://www.british-ho.com/showcase/passenger-coaches/fleischmann_bulleid_coachstock_1.htm

 

 

 

Jason

 

I love it, given the whinging about prices by some it'd be interesting.

[Marcyg]

I'm going to suggest the Lima HST power car. Ok, the motor isn't great, but I have replaced mine with the ModelTorque motors and run great. I think it's the front lights, they still seem better than the new Hornby ones, although I can't put my finger on why

[kevinlms]

I think Rivarossi would have become a major player if their British outline models had been 4mm scale.

I went down to a local supplier, with the intention of buying one based on reviews. Until I looked at the Royal Scot in the plastic and decided it wasn't for me after all. The same applies to the coaches, the full livery is excellent, but the scale 3.5mm height & 4mm width, just doesn't look at all right.

[MGR Hooper!]

Apart from their updated chassis today, I still like Lima OO gauge models which are now mostly part of the Hornby RailRoad range. Their detail was quite good and the upgrades made by Hornby have made them perfect models to start off with.

[PatB]

I'm of the understanding that a lot of Continental (and possibly US) H0 is overwidth, especially steam outline. How else do you maintain a correct scale/gauge ratio and still fit in overwidth wheels and overthick rods and motion that are inevitable if working to anything other than P87 standards?

[Dunsignalling]

I love it, given the whinging about prices by some it'd be interesting.

True. At the time they came out, they were about three times the price of Hornby coaches, IIRC.

 

John

Edited July 10, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I'm of the understanding that a lot of Continental (and possibly US) H0 is overwidth, especially steam outline. How else do you maintain a correct scale/gauge ratio and still fit in overwidth wheels and overthick rods and motion that are inevitable if working to anything other than P87 standards?

Are you suggesting that OO wasn't such a daft idea after all...…

[Ravenser]

I suppose the real test is whether they seem like the effort of upgrading . On that basis, and on the basis of projects done, I have to nominate:

 

Coaches:

 

Airfix LMS interdistrict non-corridors

Airfix  Stanier 60' composite  (but not the 57' coaches which have the wrong underframe)

Airfix Mk2Ds

 

The Triang-Hornby Mk1s are marginal, and I fear their Mk2Bs are just too much trouble

 

(I've not worked on it but the Hornby GW Collett restaurant car would still be useable)

 

Lima LMS bogie CCT 

The Lima BR CCT scrubs up well , but the Bachmann model supercedes the project

 

Wagons:

 

Dublo GW MICA - conversion to late version effective and still the only route

Mainline 16T - needs new fitted chassis as 1976 Horwich rebuild

Hornby 45T GLW tankers scrub up well if you can find them cheap (I've almost used the stash of 6 I bought from Hewins in Grimsby c1984 at 50p each)

Triang-Hornby VIX ferry van????

Lima Sealion

Hornby ?ex NER refridgerated van body (scrap trhe chassis obviously)

Hornby and Dapol 21T steel PO minerals

Lima PAA grain hoppers

 

DMUs:

Lima 156

Lima 101

 

We are currently stuck with the Hornby 142 as the only option: the bodyshell seems accurate though not refined

 

Locos:

 

Airfix 31 scrubs up ok. It always ran the best of my teenage diesels

The old Dublo/Wrenn 20 is obviously outclassed by the excellent Bachmann model both mechanically and as a bodyshell. But Dublo did a better job than Lima on the 20

 

The Hornby 29 remains the only game in town for the forseeable future

 

TT 31 was an outstanding model for its time, and the TT Medfit body was superb

[The Johnster]

Lima LMS bogie CCT, or should it be a GUV, is, like almost all Lima models, a reasonable body moulding let down by what's under the solebar, in this BR mk 1 bogies.  Same goes for Siphon H; I reckon a version of this to modern standards and on the correct bogies would sell like hot cakes; nationwide distribution post nationalisation and late use in rail blue livery for newspaper traffic.

 

No Triang Hornby, Lima, or Mainline mk 1 gangwayed stock is worth upgrading, as current Hornby (even Railroad) and Bachmann are vastly better in every respect.  Same goes for Triang Hornby and Airfix Staniers, though Airfix are the lesser of those 2 evils.

Edited July 10, 2018 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

Lima LMS bogie CCT, or should it be a GUV, is, like almost all Lima models, a reasonable body moulding let down by what's under the solebar, in this BR mk 1 bogies.  Same goes for Siphon H; I reckon a version of this to modern standards and on the correct bogies would sell like hot cakes; nationwide distribution post nationalisation and late use in rail blue livery for newspaper traffic.

 

No Triang Hornby, Lima, or Mainline mk 1 gangwayed stock is worth upgrading, as current Hornby (even Railroad) and Bachmann are vastly better in every respect.  Same goes for Triang Hornby and Airfix Staniers, though Airfix are the lesser of those 2 evils.

Swapping the bogies for appropriate Bachmann ones (readily available as spares) isn't too onerous a task on any of the Lima bogie vans. Sort out the glazing and the roof vents (on the CCT) and you have some very useful vans that hold their own with more recent models.

 

I've never understood why Hornby didn't do a bogie upgrade and re-release either (incidentally, the Lima Siphon was a G, the H is the one with end doors as done by Airfix and Hornby). 

 

There is, though, one Mainline Mk.1 that is very much worthy of praise and requires very little attention beyond flush glazing, and that is the RB. Arguably the first "modern" r-t-r coach of a UK prototype, and well worth seeking out as it's not been covered by either Bachmann or Hornby. It has been repeated by Replica Railways but I don't know if theirs is still current 

 

John

[Pacific231G]

I'm of the understanding that a lot of Continental (and possibly US) H0 is overwidth, especially steam outline. How else do you maintain a correct scale/gauge ratio and still fit in overwidth wheels and overthick rods and motion that are inevitable if working to anything other than P87 standards?

It depends on the vehicle. The outside of the wheelsets will be a bit wider than scale depending on the tread width but that shouldn't affect the body unless it's a steam loco with splashers where there might be compromise in the footplate. Most RTR H0 involves compromise, though a lot of that is to get vehicles to go round absurdly tight curves so cylinders in particular are often set wide. However, as wheel profiles have become finer, and manufacturing more precise it's been possible to gradually reduce those compromises even if they can't be totally eliminated, With OO by contrast you're stuck with the same gross 14% compromise that's built into it no matter how how finely you  model.  It's interesting, but not surprising, that EM and P4 seem to have become more popular as modellers have moved into the diesel age.    

Edited July 10, 2018 by Pacific231G