Coopercraft Kits

[Bucoops]

Some of us already are John         Steve White has compiled the list below for 4mm (we have another for 7mm) 

 

https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/about-the-gnr/gnr-models-and-modelmaking/4mm-modelling-supplies/

 

Wow that's pretty useful! Just need someone to do it for GER (no I'm not volunteering lol!). There is a PDF for 4mm modellers but like anything of the nature is somewhat out of date now.

[Clearwater]

Miss Prism of this parish, with help from eg Mike WIltshire, Adrian Wintle and others, has also compiled:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits.html

[cctransuk]

I would add that coming onto RMWeb and being consistently rude and tendentious is an interesting way to promote one's business.  That would seem to take 'suiting oneself' to extremes and is certainly an effective a way as I can think of showing contempt to customers.

 

Which is why I have never been one. .

 

Being rude and tendentious - surely not? That's calling a spade a shovel amongst us Lancastrians.

 

There is a hard core of members here who believe that they know how everyone else should conduct themselves; (mainly to suit their own personal prejudices).

 

At present, there are still a useful number of small traders who provide, for not much recompense, a good range of kits, bits, etc.

 

That number is diminishing year-on-year, and the danger for those who choose not to seek out these products is that their eventual discovery of them will come too late. That will be the time when Ebay traders will have a field day!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Edwardian]

Wow that's pretty useful! Just need someone to do it for GER (no I'm not volunteering lol!). There is a PDF for 4mm modellers but like anything of the nature is somewhat out of date now.

 

It's here: https://www.gersociety.org.uk/images/stories/documents/4mm_Modelling.pdf

 

It's pretty up to date (February 2018).  For instance, it has Guy's coach accessory sets A and B.  I am sure set C and David Eveleigh's 4-wheel coaches will be picked up in due course.  To be fair, the latter are not yet in circulation.

 

Thanks to Guy for doing the 4-wheel Set C, BTW.  I shall order.

 

As it's 'East Anglian', not purely GE, I'd like to see more of the MR and GNR equipment used on the MGN, but it's pretty comprehensive.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Edwardian

[Enterprisingwestern]

The problem with compiling a list is missing out on the items that certain modellers have produced for their own purposes which hardly anyone knows about. There must be literally hundreds, if not more, of these products flying along under the radar.

 

Mike.

[micklner]

It's here: https://www.gersociety.org.uk/images/stories/documents/4mm_Modelling.pdf

 

It's pretty up to date (February 2018).  For instance, it has Guy's coach accessory sets A and B.  I am sure set C and David Eveleigh's 4-wheel coaches will be picked up in due course.  To be fair, the latter are not yet in circulation.

 

Thanks to Guy for doing the 4-wheel Set C, BTW.  I shall order.

 

As it's 'East Anglian', not purely GE, I'd like to see more of the MR and GNR equipment used on the MGN, but it's pretty comprehensive.

 

He needs to be asked to remove Coopercraft from his list, before more people get stung.

Edited May 9, 2018 by micklner

[Bucoops]

It's here: https://www.gersociety.org.uk/images/stories/documents/4mm_Modelling.pdf

 

It's pretty up to date (February 2018).  For instance, it has Guy's coach accessory sets A and B.  I am sure set C and David Eveleigh's 4-wheel coaches will be picked up in due course.  To be fair, the latter are not yet in circulation.

 

Thanks to Guy for doing the 4-wheel Set C, BTW.  I shall order.

 

As it's 'East Anglian', not purely GE, I'd like to see more of the MR and GNR equipment used on the MGN, but it's pretty comprehensive.

 

Oh! Brilliant the one I have has the file dated as 2017 but is actually dated 2013 Thanks!

[jwealleans]

I'm involved with producing the document for the GERS - if anyone has any updates they think we've missed, please PM me and I'll pass them along.

[Edwardian]

I'm involved with producing the document for the GERS - if anyone has any updates they think we've missed, please PM me and I'll pass them along.

 

 

 

 

It's an impressively comprehensive document, for instance, it even lists Guy Rixon's separately available coach buffers and Pintsch gas lamp tops, and the Coast Line Models' wagon accessories. 

 

So far for the GE (both post February 2018 developments - so not missed) - Guy Rixon's Shapeways GE coach accessories set C (for 4-wheel coaches) and, when available, add Eveleigh Creation's 3 GE 4-wheel coaches. 

 

Mike Trice's GN 6-wheel coach accessories are clearly of relevance to MGN.  Query whether his new 3D print 'flat pack' GNR 6-wheelers were diagrams sent to the MGN.  I've a feeling at least one is.  Similarly, query the applicability of the GNR 6-wheel diagrams produced by Diagram 3D.

 

MR Clayton 6-wheelers used by the MGN - currently the Slaters ones are not available (via Coopercraft), but Bill Bedford/Mousa and Wizard/51L do them, so, again, it's a question of which diagrams came to the MGN.  

[Bucoops]

I've got a bit of info on GE Section Gresley 52'6" vestibuled stock. It needs confirmation by someone more in the know than me but I think I have a bit more than in the latest sheet? It's a work in progress as well so some missing info.

 

[t-b-g]

It doesn't matter what anybody says of does in the way they conduct their businesses. It is the nature of an internet forum that somebody else will know what they should have done differently.

 

Knowing a number of small and larger sized business model railway traders, there are some who can hardly manage what they do with the number of hours there are in a day and the idea of increasing business activity by enhancing on line activity is not Something they could cope with. I have seen some of these criticised for not dealing with orders and queries yesterday. Perhaps they might do better if they cut their product ranges right back and concentrated on a code of products, letting all the interesting but poor selling bits go by the wayside but do we really want that to happen.

 

Then there are those who perhaps produced a product of two for a layout and got asked if they might supply some to other people and ended up trading almost by accident. Some are well into retirement and would much rather be spending their time on their own stuff but carry on because they know their products are really useful to other modellers. Then there are the "proper" traders who are efficient, well organised and web savvy.

 

When you are looking for a product, it is hard to tell exactly which type of trader you are dealing with but anybody expecting the true cottage industry to behave in the same way as a "Hattons" in terms of web sites etc. is in cloud cuckoo land.

 

We should just appreciate these smaller traders and their contribution to the hobby, rather than having digs at them for not having the sort of business we would like them to have.

 

Having said all that, what is happening with Coopercraft seems to have gone beyond somebody buying a business and then not being able to cope. It now seems to have gone into the realms of deliberately misleading people into what is happening in an attempt to keep orders coming in. If that is the case, it is very sad that a trader with such interesting products potentially available has come to this.

[Jol Wilkinson]

There are a number of sources of information about kits and bits. Line Societies, "Scale" Societies, RMweb's Small Suppliers list, UK Model Shops Directory, etc. These largely rely on suppliers providing and updating the information. If someone chooses not to do that, then perhaps it indicates that they don't want to expand their business beyond a level with which they are comfortable.

 

Likewise, some of these producers choose not to use the internet to promote their products. Clearly, for some here, that is an issue because they can't discover and obtain those products. We simply have to accept that if a producer wishes to run his business in a particular way, that is up to them, as TBG  states.

 

The internet has opened up awareness of those businesses that wish to increase their visibility. That is particularly the case for RTR "resellers" who are operating an a competitive, usually price led, market. That requires large, continually updated sites with online ordering and real time availability. That is not practical or economic for small producers.  However, it raises peoples overall expectations of what people expect, in particular  with email communication and relies.

 

This thread has drifted away from its original discussion, into a territory that has been debated before in different topics. Reflecting on that I think that we have to accept that, if we want to build scratch or kit built models we have to go a bit further to find what is available as well as learn new skills and techniques. 

[Willie Whizz]

The issue of suppliers not having websites crops up time and again, invariably it is the more 'niche' or older suppliers that don't have them, as an example D&S have been mentioned in the past. But with him being in his 70's,  I have to agree with the owner (Dan) that he really doesn't need to increase production or change his ways to suit, when the existing production runs sell out in the traditional way and he gets to enjoy life.

 

Which is fine, if that's what really suits him and a bit more money in his pocket wouldn't actually be rather more useful than a bit more time on his hands,

 

But consider this scenario ...

 

Let's say I have a hankering to move-on from the mainstream and build a layout based on, let's say (courtesy of The Railway Children) a layout based on the 1920s branchline operations of the 'Great Northern and Southern Railway'.  Bachby or Hornmann even produce a couple of suitable locomotives, but there is no R-T-R rolling stock.  Unbeknownst to me, a small supplier called, say, "S & D" does produce kits for a small selection of suitable carriages and brake vans; but they have no Internet presence, don't attend many (if any) shows, and don't even often advertise in the 'small ads' in the magazines.

 

Being not yet of pensionable age, moderately intelligent and - in the later years of the second decade of the 21st Century - used to finding a significant portion of my wants and needs for all aspects of my life described and readily available to purchase on the Internet, it scarcely even occurs to me that, if kits for models of GN & SR rolling stock exist at all, I could not find their supplier on there (let alone that such a supplier couldn't even be @rsed to open and reply to his e-mails if he purported to offer contact by that mechanism, but that's another story).

 

So after making what seem to be reasonable efforts to locate what I want, I conclude it almost certainly doesn't exist.  Thus thwarted, I decide to not be so adventurous, and to build a Great Western branch-line instead; at the end of the day this is meant to be fun after all, not hard work.  RESULT:  My modelling takes a different turn and doesn't develop in ways it might have, meaning I'm less inclined in future to seek out niche projects and the suppliers for them, diminishing the market overall.  "S & D" Models lose a sale of, say, £60 now and future sales of maybe five or six times that.  A more entrepreneurial, more mainstream, manufacturer gets that business instead.  The elderly owner of "S & D" vaguely wonders why his sales aren't what they used to be; why postage stamps need to cost the amount they do these days; and why some of the people who do (eventually) succeed in making contact with him seem so ... frustrated and impatient.  But what does he care - it's his business, which one day he'll easily be able to sell-on for at least what he thinks it's worth if not more; meanwhile he enjoys his life; and they're only Customers after all  Or, actually, as it turns out they aren't ...

 

None of which is intended as a dig at your "Dan" personally; like I say, it's his choice and his right - but it is a dig at the complaisant mind-set of some people on here who seem content that as long as they personally know the right route to get what they want, the rest of the modelling fraternity don't matter; and that attitudes to 'customer service' that would have been seen in any other walk of life as poor if not antedeluvian in the 1950s are somehow still acceptable today.

[Horsetan]

.....t attitudes to 'customer service' that would have been seen in any other walk of life as poor if not antedeluvian in the 1950s are somehow still acceptable today.

 

Yes, but in today's world of corporate BS, that would be known as the USP.

[Willie Whizz]

.... in reply to which, I would simply point you to https://www.cctrans.org.uk/ .

 

You will see that I do have a web presence; that I do accept orders by e-mail; and that I do accept electronic payment. Yet it seems that, despite these much-vaunted 21st Century facilities, you are still ignorant of my existence.

 

I have been providing transfers, on my own terms, since 1999 and have not gone fast down the plughole, and I am certainly not far into debt - indeed, I don't owe a penny to anyone.

 

Thus, I speak from nearly two decades of experience; when you can match that I will take more seriously your advice on how to run a niche railway modelling operation.

 

If someone chooses to offer a service they have an absolute right to do so on their own terms. If, in doing so, they exclude from their customer base those who wish to dictate their own trading methods, I'm sure that they will consider it a benefit.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Well, good for you Mr. Isherwood - but it sounds as if you are not typical of some of the people you're excusing.

 

And yes, I've heard of your business, just didn't immediately make the connection.

 

With regard to your final sentence, whilst I'm in no doubt that any business is - or should be - primarily run for the 'benefit' of the owner, isn't it widely recognised that the very best way for any business (and thus its owner) to prosper, and therefore 'benefit' from owning it, is not just to sell whatever suits them in whatever manner they care to, but to provide the greatest possible satisfaction to the largest number of Customers, who will therefore make repeat orders and will recommend the business to their friends and colleagues?

 

But then, what would I know ... it appears you have 20 years practical experience as a small businessman in your own field; whereas I only have, prior to my retirement, a 40+ year career of which a very substantial part was spent in providing business support, advice and guidance to individuals and organisations of all sizes from 'one-man-bands' and tiny charities with turnovers of a few hundred or a few thousand pounds right through to mid-corporate companies with turnover in the millions.

 

Heigh-ho ...

Edited May 9, 2018 by Willie Whizz

[t-b-g]

Which is fine, if that's what really suits him and a bit more money in his pocket wouldn't actually be rather more useful than a bit more time on his hands,

 

But consider this scenario ...

 

Let's say I have a hankering to move-on from the mainstream and build a layout based on, let's say (courtesy of The Railway Children) a layout based on the 1920s branchline operations of the 'Great Northern and Southern Railway'.  Bachby or Hornmann even produce a couple of suitable locomotives, but there is no R-T-R rolling stock.  Unbeknownst to me, a small supplier called, say, "S & D" does produce kits for a small selection of suitable carriages and brake vans; but they have no Internet presence, don't attend many (if any) shows, and don't even often advertise in the 'small ads' in the magazines.

 

Being not yet of pensionable age, moderately intelligent and - in the later years of the second decade of the 21st Century - used to finding a significant portion of my wants and needs for all aspects of my life described and readily available to purchase on the Internet, it scarcely even occurs to me that, if kits for models of GN & SR rolling stock exist at all, I could not find their supplier on there (let alone that such a supplier couldn't even be @rsed to open and reply to his e-mails if he purported to offer contact by that mechanism, but that's another story).

 

So after making what seem to be reasonable efforts to locate what I want, I conclude it almost certainly doesn't exist.  Thus thwarted, I decide to not be so adventurous, and to build a Great Western branch-line instead; at the end of the day this is meant to be fun after all, not hard work.  RESULT:  My modelling takes a different turn and doesn't develop in ways it might have, meaning I'm less inclined in future to seek out niche projects and the suppliers for them, diminishing the market overall.  "S & D" Models lose a sale of, say, £60 now and future sales of maybe five or six times that.  A more entrepreneurial, more mainstream, manufacturer gets that business instead.  The elderly owner of "S & D" vaguely wonders why his sales aren't what they used to be; why postage stamps need to cost the amount they do these days; and why some of the people who do (eventually) succeed in making contact with him seem so ... frustrated and impatient.  But what does he care - it's his business, which one day he'll easily be able to sell-on for at least what he thinks it's worth if not more; meanwhile he enjoys his life; and they're only Customers after all  Or, actually, as it turns out they aren't ...

 

None of which is intended as a dig at your "Dan" personally; like I say, it's his choice and his right - but it is a dig at the complaisant mind-set of some people on here who seem content that as long as they personally know the right route to get what they want, the rest of the modelling fraternity don't matter; and that attitudes to 'customer service' that would have been seen in any other walk of life as poor if not antedeluvian in the 1950s are somehow still acceptable today.

 

What if the elderly guy running S & D models has his work/life balance just as he wants it and doesn't want more orders and business because what he has just suits the amount of time and work he wants to put into it? He probably really wants to retire but carries on because he is a nice bloke and knows his products are not available elsewhere and he likes helping modellers out by producing small batches of kits now and then.

 

Now tell me why he should want to create a load more work for himself.

 

There are a number of professional model makers/painters who have an established list of clients but don't want or need to take on work from others because they have all the work they need. Are they wrong too, for not making their services available to everybody? 

[Denbridge]

What if the elderly guy running S & D models has his work/life balance just as he wants it and doesn't want more orders and business because what he has just suits the amount of time and work he wants to put into it? He probably really wants to retire but carries on because he is a nice bloke and knows his products are not available elsewhere and he likes helping modellers out by producing small batches of kits now and then.

 

Now tell me why he should want to create a load more work for himself.

 

There are a number of professional model makers/painters who have an established list of clients but don't want or need to take on work from others because they have all the work they need. Are they wrong too, for not making their services available to everybody?

 

S&D models do have a website though

[t-b-g]

S&D models do have a website though

There was I thinking it was a fictional name made up for the purposes of the discussion, being a play on D & S. Silly me!

[cctransuk]

Which is fine, if that's what really suits him and a bit more money in his pocket wouldn't actually be rather more useful than a bit more time on his hands,

 

But consider this scenario ...

 

Let's say I have a hankering to move-on from the mainstream and build a layout based on, let's say (courtesy of The Railway Children) a layout based on the 1920s branchline operations of the 'Great Northern and Southern Railway'.  Bachby or Hornmann even produce a couple of suitable locomotives, but there is no R-T-R rolling stock.  Unbeknownst to me, a small supplier called, say, "S & D" does produce kits for a small selection of suitable carriages and brake vans; but they have no Internet presence, don't attend many (if any) shows, and don't even often advertise in the 'small ads' in the magazines.

 

Being not yet of pensionable age, moderately intelligent and - in the later years of the second decade of the 21st Century - used to finding a significant portion of my wants and needs for all aspects of my life described and readily available to purchase on the Internet, it scarcely even occurs to me that, if kits for models of GN & SR rolling stock exist at all, I could not find their supplier on there (let alone that such a supplier couldn't even be @rsed to open and reply to his e-mails if he purported to offer contact by that mechanism, but that's another story).

 

So after making what seem to be reasonable efforts to locate what I want, I conclude it almost certainly doesn't exist.  Thus thwarted, I decide to not be so adventurous, and to build a Great Western branch-line instead; at the end of the day this is meant to be fun after all, not hard work.  RESULT:  My modelling takes a different turn and doesn't develop in ways it might have, meaning I'm less inclined in future to seek out niche projects and the suppliers for them, diminishing the market overall.  "S & D" Models lose a sale of, say, £60 now and future sales of maybe five or six times that.  A more entrepreneurial, more mainstream, manufacturer gets that business instead.  The elderly owner of "S & D" vaguely wonders why his sales aren't what they used to be; why postage stamps need to cost the amount they do these days; and why some of the people who do (eventually) succeed in making contact with him seem so ... frustrated and impatient.  But what does he care - it's his business, which one day he'll easily be able to sell-on for at least what he thinks it's worth if not more; meanwhile he enjoys his life; and they're only Customers after all  Or, actually, as it turns out they aren't ...

 

None of which is intended as a dig at your "Dan" personally; like I say, it's his choice and his right - but it is a dig at the complaisant mind-set of some people on here who seem content that as long as they personally know the right route to get what they want, the rest of the modelling fraternity don't matter; and that attitudes to 'customer service' that would have been seen in any other walk of life as poor if not antedeluvian in the 1950s are somehow still acceptable today.

 

How do those of a "... complaisant mind-set ... " know about the hypothetical kits, and you don't?

 

Because they get out there, read magazines, attend exhibitions, join clubs, etc.; if you rely solely on the internet for your research, you deserve to have your modelling confined to the mainstream.

 

The world doesn't exist to pander to your personal communications preferences - get over it and move on!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

But then, what would I know ... it appears you have 20 years practical experience as a small businessman in your own field; whereas I only have, prior to my retirement, a 40+ year career of which a very substantial part was spent in providing business support, advice and guidance to individuals and organisations of all sizes from 'one-man-bands' and tiny charities with turnovers of a few hundred or a few thousand pounds right through to mid-corporate companies with turnover in the millions.

 

 

..... and that may be the root cause of your problem - all becomes clear!

 

In my professional experience, there is a massive industry, operating in all walks of life, which exists solely to 'support, advise and guide' others as to how they should be conducting their lives / careers / you name it.

 

Whether these 'supporters, advisers and guides' have any practical experience of undertaking those tasks is open to question, and in my experience, doubtful in the extreme.

 

My advice to you would be to fully retire from ''supporting, advising and guiding" - including here - and let those who are actually making model railway items available to get on with doing it in a way that suits them and their (existing) customers.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited May 10, 2018 by cctransuk

[chris p bacon]

But consider this scenario ...

 

Let's say I have a hankering to move-on from the mainstream and build a layout based on, let's say (courtesy of The Railway Children) a layout based on the 1920s branchline operations of the 'Great Northern and Southern Railway'.  Bachby or Hornmann even produce a couple of suitable locomotives, but there is no R-T-R rolling stock.  Unbeknownst to me, a small supplier called, say, "S & D" does produce kits for a small selection of suitable carriages and brake vans; but they have no Internet presence, don't attend many (if any) shows, and don't even often advertise in the 'small ads' in the magazines.

 

Being not yet of pensionable age, moderately intelligent and - in the later years of the second decade of the 21st Century - used to finding a significant portion of my wants and needs for all aspects of my life described and readily available to purchase on the Internet, it scarcely even occurs to me that, if kits for models of GN & SR rolling stock exist at all, I could not find their supplier on there (let alone that such a supplier couldn't even be @rsed to open and reply to his e-mails if he purported to offer contact by that mechanism, but that's another story).

 

So after making what seem to be reasonable efforts to locate what I want, I conclude it almost certainly doesn't exist.  Thus thwarted, I decide to not be so adventurous, 

 

 

Or as a lot of us do when things are difficult,  decide to make your own and scratchbuild/kit bash.

 

I have noted from your responses and advice given,  that you are only looking at this from your own perspective. When you used to do the day job did you ever take into account what the abilities or the wants of the business owner was, given that a lot of the cottage industries in the hobby are retired/semi retired (into their 80's in some cases) do you actually think it makes business sense to increase their workload beyond what they're happy with.

[Enterprisingwestern]

How do those of a "... complaisant mind-set ... " know about the hypothetical kits, and you don't?

 

Because they get out there, read magazines, attend exhibitions, join clubs, etc.; if you rely solely on the internet for your research, you deserve to have your modelling confined to the mainstream.

 

The world doesn't exist to pander to your personal communications preferences - get over it and move on!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

The wheel turns full circle back round to,,,,,,,,,,,Instant Gratification.

 

Mike.

[Retro_man]

 

With regard to your final sentence, whilst I'm in no doubt that any business is - or should be - primarily run for the 'benefit' of the owner, isn't it widely recognised that the very best way for any business (and thus its owner) to prosper, and therefore 'benefit' from owning it, is not just to sell whatever suits them in whatever manner they care to, but to provide the greatest possible satisfaction to the largest number of Customers, who will therefore make repeat orders and will recommend the business to their friends and colleagues?

 

Heigh-ho ...

 

If I really wanted to 'prosper' I would have purchased a Starbucks instead of a model railway business, or perhaps even just stayed in my previous employment!

But like most model railway business owners I am in it for the love of the hobby and for the benefit of my many regular customers.

 

Steve

Model Railway Imports

Canada

[Denbridge]

Well, good for you Mr. Isherwood - but it sounds as if you are not typical of some of the people you're excusing.

 

And yes, I've heard of your business, just didn't immediately make the connection.

 

With regard to your final sentence, whilst I'm in no doubt that any business is - or should be - primarily run for the 'benefit' of the owner, isn't it widely recognised that the very best way for any business (and thus its owner) to prosper, and therefore 'benefit' from owning it, is not just to sell whatever suits them in whatever manner they care to, but to provide the greatest possible satisfaction to the largest number of Customers, who will therefore make repeat orders and will recommend the business to their friends and colleagues?

 

But then, what would I know ... it appears you have 20 years practical experience as a small businessman in your own field; whereas I only have, prior to my retirement, a 40+ year career of which a very substantial part was spent in providing business support, advice and guidance to individuals and organisations of all sizes from 'one-man-bands' and tiny charities with turnovers of a few hundred or a few thousand pounds right through to mid-corporate companies with turnover in the millions.

 

Heigh-ho ...

attitude problem or what? Who are you to dictate how someone should run their business? Those who choose not to have a website clearly dont feel they need one and are content with the business they have.

[Denbridge]

To put another slant on this, ive had a small part time business supplying parts, etchings etc for around 17 years ( not railway) I used to have a website and did a fair amount of advertising. Quite franklt it was a pain in the backside

I spent more time dealing with enquiries ( more often than not ridiculous purile ones) than i did actually dealing with business and orders. I shut the lot down. Now i have a client base that keep me busy enough and i dont have to deal with time wasters. So, the internet can be a two edged sword.