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Coopercraft Kits

Ken A.

By Ken A.,
in Smaller Suppliers

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sharris

sharris

Posted
Posted

 

I was once asked to re-title a topic I'd started on the subject, so perhaps that is the answer here; this one could be called "Coopercraft kits - A Warning!". 

 

The previous locked thread on the subject already includes in its title "Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers".

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Edwardian

Edwardian

Posted
Posted

I never really understood the locking, unlocking, the new topic, the non-locking of the new topic etc.

 

Some here seem confident that they understand what this present topic is actually now about and, consequently, what is or is not relevant and what we are allowed, or not allowed, to post on it.

 

Bless'd indeed are they that know such things.

 

The OP stated:

 

Does anyone know if Coopercraft is still in business/  The reason that I ask is that my wife placed an order with them well before Christmas (my Christmas present) and the payment was cleared.  However the kit never arrived and when she emauiled them there was no response.  So, has anyone had contact with them lately?  Are they still around?

 

Well, the previous topic seemed to have got to the bottom of most of that already, and I was reminded that enforcement steps had proved fruitless. So, no the product is not available and, no, you probably won't get your money back; better just burn it and enjoy the glow. 

 

Also exhausted is the 'what to do about the website' issue; since it can't or won't be taken down, someone said post a warning website, and someone else said "well volunteered", someone then said this topic is the warning and then someone said no one actually reads it.

 

So I suspect the topic now chiefly serves as a sort of virtual day centre for the garrulous and the tetchy.  One day there might actually be some news (though I doubt it will have been worth waiting for), in the meantime, live and let live. 

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Edwardian

Edwardian

Posted
Posted

Oh, I don't know about that. Ever hopeful on the Slater's front at least!

 

Well, I'm told the coach range is dead.

 

I hope it's still capable of manufacture by Slaters.

 

Perhaps, though, that is a new topic: Re-manufacture by Slaters of its 4mm range?  POWsides or alternative distributorship? 

 

That's where I'd like to see news.

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hayfield

hayfield

Posted
Posted

Pretty wary if they've been reading this topic! 

 

Reflecting on the Ebay feeding frenzy, persuading oneself that the silly prices paid on Ebay for these second-hand kits are justified is understandable (especially if you are the one lucky enough to have more money than sense!), but the point about these kits is that they were introduced some time ago, and will have paid for their tooling costs several times over.  It is not necessarily the case that they would or will be significantly hiked in price if made available again.  The one Slaters example we have so far is that of the gratifyingly modestly priced Midland wagons.

 

If re-introduced, I suspect such products would always be cheaper than a new or replacement product. For instance, we could pay £80 for a resin coach kit, and then still need to buy accessories. One of the chief reasons I mourned these ranges was precisely because, as time served models, they were relatively good value.  Once you start paying over a certain amount for them, IMHO, you miss the point of them.

 

 

Forget the tooling costs, its all the parts in a Slaters kit (brass castings etc). I thought their 7 mm kits were expensive, that was until bought one and saw all the parts in the kit. I know its not saying much, bur a K's tender loco kit has less parts

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hayfield

hayfield

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Posted

I've got an almost completed rake of 5 of those - built from bits I've cobbled together from his stands at various Expos/Scaleforums and a bit of scratchbuilding. 

 

Sorry*  if I took the last ones! 

 

* Not really  :devil:

I got some bits as well to upgrade some PC toplight kits

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Craigw

Craigw

Posted
Posted

At that price, I'm not interested anymore.

The E88 went for somewhere around 180GBP and a Martin Finney Bulldog kit and tender from the same seller went for about 260GBP.

 

Barking mad

 

Regards,

 

Craigw

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Horsetan

Horsetan

Posted
Posted (edited)
The seller probably thinks all his Christmases have come at once.

 

UPDATE: looks like Mr. Novice Bidder (with a feedback score of 5) is going to have to shell out at least six hundred - that's six hundred - quid for the Toplight trio. At this rate, they'll be devalued if he actually starts building them.....

Edited by Horsetan
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Coach bogie

Coach bogie

Posted
Posted

Well, there is an absolutely visible, pent-up demand for the Slaters GWR toplights.

 

Whoever has sat on the tooling twiddling their thumbs for the last few years is a buffoon. 

 

CoY

Yet when the kits were available, sales were not great. They were available for many years and if demand was that great, Slater's would have increased production to match. There is the same dilemma with the Geen range, most of which has been around for 20 years, production quantities always being modest to match the demand, some wagon kits only having 6 produced a year. Now he is ceasing production, everyone wants one with some customers ordering 20+ of a single wagon type. Will they all get built or end up on ebay at inflated prices?

 

If the kits were re-run, there would be a minimum break even quantity to cover set up costs, but would sales be that great?

 

The fact that unbuilt kits are still around begs the question, how many would actually get built if they did become available?

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Jol Wilkinson

Jol Wilkinson

Posted
Posted

The seller probably thinks all his Christmases have come at once.

 

UPDATE: looks like Mr. Novice Bidder (with a feedback score of 5) is going to have to shell out at least six hundred - that's six hundred - quid for the Toplight trio. At this rate, they'll be devalued if he actually starts building them.....

Ivan,

 

the seller is a serial Ebay model railway trader, so possibly makes a living out of it and won't be too surprised. There have been the same  six bidders for as far as I can see.

 

Yet when the kits were available, sales were not great. They were available for many years and if demand was that great, Slater's would have increased production to match. There is the same dilemma with the Geen range, most of which has been around for 20 years, production quantities always being modest to match the demand, some wagon kits only having 6 produced a year. Now he is ceasing production, everyone wants one with some customers ordering 20+ of a single wagon type. Will they all get built or end up on ebay at inflated prices?

 

If the kits were re-run, there would be a minimum break even quantity to cover set up costs, but would sales be that great?

 

The fact that unbuilt kits are still around begs the question, how many would actually get built if they did become available?

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

MIke

 

over the years helping out firstly a large railway model shop at shows and exhibitions and then an etched kit producer I have found that kit sales (other than Airfix and other pocket money items) are always in small numbers. That's why etched kits with w/m or brass cast provide a good process for model railway kits. You can order one etched sheet at a time, w/m is a low cost production process and the moulds aren't too expensive, Brass investment casting is also relatively low cost. Injection moulded plastic, particularly of good quality, requires expensive tooling and larger production volumes. It may also require holding large stocks of kits to match economical production with relatively small annual demand, tying up capital. 

 

There is also an definite imbalance between loco sales (which applies to RTR as well, it seems) and rolling stock, especially carriages. When did anyone last model a carriage cleaning shed?. 

 

Jol

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Willie Whizz

Willie Whizz

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

...

 

There is also an definite imbalance between loco sales (which applies to RTR as well, it seems) and rolling stock, especially carriages. When did anyone last model a carriage cleaning shed?. 

 

Jol

 

True ... but on the other hand, when did anyone last see any published information regarding what the interior of one (or at least, that bit which would be visible on a model) look like, let alone provide a scale drawing.

 

At which point, six people will now undoubtedly produce or signpost us to such information of course, commenting "I thought every fool knew ..." - but my point is, even if useful information about something is 'out there' at all, it isn't always readily available and therefore the something seldom gets attempted.

 

On which hypothesis, I've been trying for ages to find out what the electrical charging points for powering-up LNER/BR(ER) Restaurant Cars looked like (and where they were mounted, i.e. platforms, sidings, inside carriage sheds or what?), without success, so if there are six of you 'out there' who can show me, I'll willingly put my hand up to being the 'fool' in this case!

Edited by Willie Whizz
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sharris

sharris

Posted
Posted

production quantities always being modest to match the demand, some wagon kits only having 6 produced a year. Now he is ceasing production, everyone wants one with some customers ordering 20+ of a single wagon type. 

 

As Joni Mitchell pointed out "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"

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