Tornado fails on ECML

[JeremyC]

We increasingly life in a "celebrity" culture and FS fulfils that role for the general public, owing the to media attention it has had over the years.

 

The restoration and new build projects are largely driven by enthusiast with an interest in that particular locomotive or class. Will many people turn out especially to see another NER /LNER G5 in steam, or a V2, a Grange, a LNWR George or any of the other new builds in the same way they would for the Flying Scotsman?

Last weekend I went out to get photos of the Great Britain and Fife Circle tours in the Edinburgh area. During the entire day I met about a dozen people, all enthusiasts, photographing the trains. In contrast a couple of years ago when Flying Scotsman was in the area you could hardly get near the lineside at Dalmeny for people and the vast majority were families and other non-enthusiasts.

Edited April 25, 2018 by JeremyC

[kevinlms]

Last weekend I went out to get photos of the Great Britain and Fife Circle tours in the Edinburgh area. During the entire day I met about a dozen people, all enthusiasts, photographing the trains. In contrast a couple of years ago when Flying Scotsman was in the area you could hardly get near the lineside at Dalmeny for people and the vast majority were families and other non-enthusiasts.

But does it last? If FS came back tomorrow, would most of them bother? TV news has a lot of novelty value.

[AndyID]

Perhaps Disney will make a film about Tornado failing on the main line.........that's about as far off the topic we could get is it not?

P

That would be an interesting bit of theatre, not unlike Tornado itself.

[Dava]

It's lucky not every mainline steam failure generates a thread of 15 pages & 357 posts, GW locos get nothing like this level of attention...not that they get out much these days, or maybe they're more reliable than they used to be. KGV was always running hot boxes.

[Colin_McLeod]

..or maybe their failures are no longer news.

 

Tin hat on. Quick exit...

[newbryford]

 

 

 

 

 

 I bet the big bit a the front is just a heating element with a bit of water to create steam for effect and there's actually a diesel loco hidden in that big black box thingy at the back pushing it.........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[AndyID]

 I bet the big bit a the front is just a heating element with a bit of water to create steam for effect and there's actually a diesel loco hidden in that big black box thingy at the back pushing it.........

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

To give them their due, the deception did work for ten years.

[jjb1970]

What steam might have became with further development?

 

GE steam turbo-electric locomotive, 1930's, and the N&W Jawn Henry turbo-electric. Oddly, the older design perhaps looks the more modern of the two.

 

[Oldddudders]

The automotive styling influence versus the black box.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 

The six days per week running schedule of these locomotives meant that all of the maintenance work normally done over the course of that week would have to be done on one day. This meant a specialized system was developed, where men in "hot suits" (asbestos heat-resistant coveralls) entered the firebox while the locomotive was still in steam and cleared all of the tubes, repaired the brick arch, etc. As the temperature inside the firebox itself would have been well over 100 degrees Celsius (212 F), and the working area these maintenance workers would have been standing on was the still-hot firebars of the grate, all references describe these workers as 'heroic' 

 

Brit15

 

If I am reading it correctly (and I'm no engineer) Porta's gas producer combustion system eliminates the damaging char from a partially combusted fire, and his water treatment system eliminated boiler damaging chemicals meaning that this sort of unpleasant foolishness would be totally eliminated in the servicing of modern steam.

 

Regarding the 5AT, I suspect it failed to attract funding simply because it was a butt ugly fugger.  Why they couldn't have designed something that looked nicer or more impressive I don't know.  I'd put several designs on our very own Imaginary Locomotives thread ahead of the 5AT for aesthetics.  I keep reading that as FAT, which is pretty much how it looked, short and stocky and over blessed with a big tender behind

Edited April 26, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Zomboid]

Personally I quite like the look of the 5AT. Though that's not so very out of character for me...

The big tender is one of the things I like best about it (though it would be nice if it were a vandy).

Edited April 26, 2018 by Zomboid

[jjb1970]

I'd be very cautious about using the word eliminate when it comes to combustion products and boiler water treatment chemicals if you want a long lasting and reliable steam plant. OK, steam locomotive boilers are low pressure but even running on demineralised water with highly efficient de-aerators power plant feedwater is still dosed with chemicals such as hydrazine and sodium hydroxide. Equally, even with far better combustion control than you'd achieve on a steam locomotive you still generate various combustion products which necessitate regular soot blowing and periodic boiler cleaning. I think reduce may be a better phrase, although clearly it also depends on what is considered an acceptable level of maintenance and I know steam locomotives were very maintenance heavy. 

[jjb1970]

Personally I quite like the look of the 5AT. Though that's not so very out of character for me...

The big tender is one of the things I like best about it (though it would be nice if it were a vandy).

 

I agree, I also quite like the look of the 5AT. I just think it'd be a fascinating exercise to see what you could do if you applied modern design and manufacturing to a classic steamer.

[jjb1970]

For those who appreciate fine quality and have deep pockets, the Division Point model of the Jawn Henry.....

 

 

[Reorte]

I agree, I also quite like the look of the 5AT. I just think it'd be a fascinating exercise to see what you could do if you applied modern design and manufacturing to a classic steamer.

I don't like the look of it but do agree that it would be a fascinating exercise.

[LMS2968]

At the very real risk of posting something to do with the thread title, the A1 Trust have had the blanks for the combination lever and union link forged and work to machine them continues. The rate of progress is such that it is no longer anticipated that anything needs to be borrowed from the A2 to get the engine back running again.

[Oldddudders]

At the very real risk of posting something to do with the thread title, the A1 Trust have had the blanks for the combination lever and union link forged and work to machine them continues. The rate of progress is such that it is no longer anticipated that anything needs to be borrowed from the A2 to get the engine back running again.

 

I would call that resilience. Ability to respond to the unforeseen to good effect. 

[Coryton]

 I bet the big bit a the front is just a heating element with a bit of water to create steam for effect and there's actually a diesel loco hidden in that big black box thingy at the back pushing it.........

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Tender drive!

 

Is there a big ringfield motor in there?

[Pacific231G]

Men were made of sterner stuff in the olden days, before elf n'safety went mad, fuelled by extra high tar filterless fags, beer and lard. It was a happier world..

They were certainly happy to come home from work alive, especially if they still had all their limbs. 

[rockershovel]

I always understood that the “Jawn Henry” lived up to its name, by making one good run before expiring in the face of new technology...

[AndyID]

Any news on the root cause of the problem? Wouldn't they know by now why the lubrication failed?

[jjb1970]

I always understood that the “Jawn Henry” lived up to its name, by making one good run before expiring in the face of new technology...

You might say it was almost but not quite an answer looking for a question. Both the N&W and C&o (with the similar M1) had reasons for favouring coal as a fuel but both recognised that the conventional kettle was obsolete and would soon be a memory. A turbo-electric design marrying a steam raising boiler to a modern electric traction package via a very simple steam turbine has a lot of merit if you are really determined to keep steam alive. Indeed it is probably the only real way forward to address the fundamental issues with steam. However you really need a condenser for it to make any sense and even a good Rankine plant is well behind a diesel for efficiency. So yes, if you really must avoid diesel engines and are determined to keep steam alive then the Jawn Henry and M1 made some sense. In reality they answered a question virtually nobody was asking. Imposing machines though.

[APOLLO]

I remember another stab at a new coal fired steam loco in the early 80's - ACE3000. Didn't get built though thorough tests were carried out on using an existing preserved loco to gather data. I have an old Betamax video somewhere re this.

 

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/ACE_3000_Prototype_Steam_Locomotive

 

Anyway, good news on the Tornado front - a few weeks and she'll be right again.

 

Brit15

[stewartingram]

Tender drive!

 

Is there a big ringfield motor in there?

 

Just check the underside of the boiler. If you can see a hole there, there might even be an X04 in there somewhere - unbreakable!

 

Stewart

[jjb1970]

I remember another stab at a new coal fired steam loco in the early 80's - ACE3000. Didn't get built though thorough tests were carried out on using an existing preserved loco to gather data. I have an old Betamax video somewhere re this.

 

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/ACE_3000_Prototype_Steam_Locomotive

 

Anyway, good news on the Tornado front - a few weeks and she'll be right again.

 

Brit15

 

Ahh...the ACE3000, allow me to recommend one of these (courtesy of brasstrains.com), hand built by Utao Waki, I believe only ten were ever made and if you can find one it won't be cheap.....