buffalo Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 ...So, I'm wondering, do we have a chassis that we can use to convert the Airfix model to loco drive? (Yes, I know, the 4F has a host of other issues). Am I missing something. Only a good part of this thread up to the point when the 3F was released Throughout the early pages folk seemed more interested in talking about 4Fs, especially the reworked Hornby one, and several have asked the same question, either as a way of putting a decent chassis under the old 4F, or as speculation about whether Bachmann would go on to make a 4F, 2F, etc. It's early days yet, but give it a few days and I'm sure someone will have a go at fitting the 3F chassis to an old 4F. One other point - anyone know of a 4F kit that's available besides the Brassmaster offering? I checked Craftsman, Gibson and DJH. According to their web site, Gibson are doing a run of their 4F kit so might have one available. Why would you not want a Brassmasters kit? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I can guarantee you, if Bachmann were to release a 4F of the quality of their 3F, and at a similar price to the warmed over Hornby 4F, most discerning modellers would buy the Bachmann model. I'm not convinced that Hornby didn't decide to do the 4F on the strength of feeling over Bachmann's 3F, to be frank. I've been seeing the reviews across the web, done some research, and Copley Hill may yet have a 3F by the end of the year...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks Nick. I think I have read most of the thread. I agree that the discussion about chassis and 4F has been speculative up to now. However now that we have the real thing we can turn speculation into fact. Thanks too about the Gibson kit - I missed that on the site. I have nothing against the Brassmasters kit other than the price - which, I hasten to add, is good value for what you get. In fact, the guys at Brassmasters were kind enough to sell me a pack of castings from their kit. I was looking for a more basic, albeit accurate, 4F body. Cheers John Edit: I shouldn't have said "price". Complexity was what I was getting at, and of course the kit has some marvellous etches which would be redundant if using the Bachmann 3F chassis. Another possibly interesting snippet is that a Markits wheelset for the LMS 0-6-0 (5' 2" dia) is 47 pounds. So this loco really does lend itself to all sorts of possibilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm never sure how up-to-date the Gibson kit info is, but maybe it is worth giving Colin a call/email. I have a Brassmasters kit nearing completion, an interesting experience, but certainly not basic! Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2011 Absolutely stunning little model. arrived from Hattons yesterday and have been running it today. Smooth in operation from the box , although I have now run it in. and its not often you can say it these days but at £56 it really is value for money. Because its so good value, might just be tempted to get an LMS one too Well done Bachmann! Just hope next year brings an announcement of further 0-6-0s to the same spec and VFM. Caley Jumbo anyone- just what they need for that Kirriemuir layout they've been building in the Collectors mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scots region Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 All right I'll bite, how many inflitrated over the border, (Sigh) Glasgow here I come Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted November 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2011 Bachmann are doing the SECR C class 060 which I saw at the Bluebell over easter, so hopefully we will see a LNER 060 announced next year. ANy would do, but I think it may be a J15, preserved and similar in style to the C class and easy to measure up. More likely a J39 with a new chassis, following on from the B1 and V2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Could I just add a simple comment to this thread, what a beautiful little model this is. My model of 43474 has just arrived from Liverpool and straight from the box she is running pefectly, nothing missing, nothing broken and not a wobble in sight. Thank you Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I understand that the Airfix/Hornby 4F has a number of major errors (in particular the splashers) and that these are expected to remain when the re-chassisied model appears in due course. I also appreciate that the 4F is left hand drive whilst the new Bachmann 3F is right hand drive. However, in view of Coachman's initial comments about the splashers on the 3F, would I be wasting a lot of money if I was to try simply using the 4F boiler and cab on a 3F rather than by putting a complete 4F 'body' on the 3F chassis? How accurate would such a model be? (I'm a Southern modeller rather than an LMS one and want a 4F to work in from the S&DJR - the 'Armstrongs' seem to have had a similar tender to the 3F and also were right-hand drive). JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Since no-one else has commented upon it, I would like to point out that Bachmann have produced the 'late crest' model in the 'mk 1' form, with the right-facing lion as well as the left-facing one, which is correct for locomotives 're-crested' from late 1956 to early 1959. It's great to see such attention to detail, so many 'late crest' models are produced with left-facing ones on each side. Congratulations Bachmann! JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 ...However, in view of Coachman's initial comments about the splashers on the 3F, would I be wasting a lot of money if I was to try simply using the 4F boiler and cab on a 3F rather than by putting a complete 4F 'body' on the 3F chassis? How accurate would such a model be? There are probably enough differences at running plate level to make this more difficult than it might sound. For example, 4Fs have a different shape to the buffer beam and a raised central part between the frames and in front of the smokebox. They have 3 sandboxes on each side whereas the 3F has only two. 4Fs usually have two Wakefield lubricators, the 3F only one. (I'm a Southern modeller rather than an LMS one and want a 4F to work in from the S&DJR - the 'Armstrongs' seem to have had a similar tender to the 3F and also were right-hand drive). 4Fs were built by and for both the Midland and the LMS. The right/left hand drive difference arises because the LMS chnaged the Midland design, although early LMS examples continued the Midland practice of building RHD engines. From 4207 onwards they were LHD (except 4302-11 and the ex-S&DJR Armstrongs, 4557-61). Several LMS LHD examples ran on the Somerset & Dorset at different times, e.g. 44417, 44422 and 44523. However, photos of all of these show that, at least post-war, they all ran with Fowler 3500 gallon tenders. Until the mid-1950s, the Armstrongs and sometimes other LMS 4Fs ran with a Fowler-built version of the Johnson 3500 gallon tender which has a number of significant differences from the 3250 gallon tender supplied with the 3F. Thereafter they had the Fowler 3500 gallon tender. You may also find this thread and this one useful for unravelling the differences. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is the Wills 4F whitemetal body kit still on the market? This would be a far better option than messing around with plastic bodies for hours on end and still ending up with a bodged compromise. I mention this kit purely because many folk do not feel confident enought to build an etched brass kit. In the Bachmann 3F pictures posted by 7013, the wheels look to fit inside the splashers very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 27, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is the Wills 4F whitemetal body kit still on the market? This would be a far better option than messing around with plastic bodies for hours on end and still ending up with a bodged compromise. I mention this kit purely because many folk do not feel confident enought to build an etched brass kit. Yes, and an etched frame is available from SE Finecast to suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The colour picture book, On Somersert & Dorset Lines by Robert Robotham, has on page 66, a March 1961 picture of Templecombe loco yard, which shows 43474 in one of the loco sidings. However, the cabside number is too blurred to be able to confirm if the caption is correct, and it wouldn't be the first caption to be wrong either. The Bachmann website, was at one point (I havn't checked lately) listing this model as being an S&D example ! Does anyone know where 43474 was allocated in March 1961 ?, it wasn't any S&D shed ! Someone wrote the number down wrong, should have been 43734, which was stored at Templecombe 'till the July, and then got packed off to Rose Grove. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Picked up my 2nd 3F to day and no I am not intending to do a Toton Brent coal train. What I would like help with is, who does numbers which are nearest to Bachmann's as if possible I don't intend to remove all the printed numbers when changing them if I can help it. Thx folks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I was chuffed to read in my dream that Lees 26E lost all its L&Y 0-6-0s in 1946 in favour of a boatload of Midland 3F's... That copper firehole door handle wouldn't have lasted two minutes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scots region Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I was chuffed to read in my dream that Lees 26E lost all its L&Y 0-6-0s in 1946 in favour of a boatload of Midland 3F's... That copper firehole door handle wouldn't have lasted two minutes! Heavens! Surely thou art not specauating that midlander fireraises yonder, would lay ill thought as to the location of thine convayance instrument?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi all, Can someone please measure the diameter of the driving axles. 3mm has been 'standard' for a while but I am hearing rumours that this is rather different! Tony Yes, they are quite different, as is the NRM Compound, something like 2.14 mm in diameter....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted December 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2011 I received my 3F yesterday, beautiful little machine BUT !!!! I managed to break the whistle, I am a clumsy b*****d, , anyone on here know if a brass one is available, oh I am in Australia, Rgds..........Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I received my 3F yesterday, beautiful little machine BUT !!!! I managed to break the whistle, I am a clumsy b*****d, , anyone on here know if a brass one is available, oh I am in Australia, Rgds..........Mike What a Silly Billy! Alan Gibson sell them, there may be others like Markits perhaps, even though they are in the UK. Or - do you know anyone with a small lathe? Many years ago I turned a 4mm whistle and Salter safety valve spindles on a 5 inch Harrison lathe in Derby Loco works Training School so I know it can be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yes, they are quite different, as is the NRM Compound, something like 2.14 mm in diameter....... Why would they change what has been the standard axle diameter ? I am just curious if there is an actual reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Why would they change what has been the standard axle diameter ? The 1/8th inch axe was pretty well standard for years, being used by all the "scale" wheel manufacturers like Hamblings, Romford etc etc. Triang Hornby axles used to be a larger diameter and fitting brass bushes to take scale wheels was something many modellers did to Triang in the days of whitemeatl loco bodyline kits. Why has the diameter changed? Who knows. No doubt decimalization or some other ization will be cited. For those hoping to P4 their locos, I expect re-boring the axle holes and gear wheel will be the new game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't have a 3F, but have had the Compound down to individual components in the last couple of evenings. Bachmann's chassis are now much improved, with the driving axles running in brass bushes, rather than just loosely in slots in the chassis block. There's other improvements evident on the 4P, but that's off topic here. It could be that the axle diameter has been changed to use bushes into similarly sized chassis slots. I don't have means to give you measurements though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2011 The 1/8th inch axe was pretty well standard for years, being used by all the "scale" wheel manufacturers like Hamblings, Romford etc etc. Triang Hornby axles used to be a larger diameter and fitting brass bushes to take scale wheels was something many modellers did to Triang in the days of whitemeatl loco bodyline kits. Why has the diameter changed? Who knows. No doubt decimalization or some other ization will be cited. For those hoping to P4 their locos, I expect re-boring the axle holes and gear wheel will be the new game. Maybe Chinese bicycle spokes are a different size from ours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Maybe Chinese bicycle spokes are a different size from ours? Best ask a spokes person... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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