Hornby to end the Thomas the Tank Engine range

[Thunderforge]

Someone will sell in the UK, nature abhors a vacuum!

[brushman47544]

Someone will sell in the UK, nature abhors a vacuum!

 

But if Hornby has a warehouse full of the stuff and moves it to the box shifters to get rid of, there will be sellers in the UK for many years to come. Unless or until Hornby's TTTE products are no longer available new, I would expect Bachmann to leave well alone. If Hornby couldn't make money out of the license, why would Bachmann take such a risk with lots of Hornby's product still available?

[andyram]

Considering the amount of stock in Hornby's warehouse I think there will be a plentiful supply for many years to come.

[Dunsignalling]

As of 01 January 2019, the licence will have expired and Hornby's right to sell any TTTE products remaining in their possession presumably ceases.

 

It will therefore be essential that any stocks are sold, and probably physically shifted, to retailers beforehand.

 

The item relating to Hornby not renewing the licence in the news section of the July Railway Modeller also mentions toy safety restrictions being a factor in their decision.

 

Ultimately, it may cease to be legal for anyone to sell Hornby TTTE as "new", whatever residual rights (if any) are stipulated in Hornby's contractual terms. If the licensors are as smart as we can probably assume they are, there are likely to be agreed conditions relating to the disposal of remaining stock within those terms to prevent unfair stockpiling ahead of Hornby's non-renewal causing a de facto unpaid extension of the licence.

 

If Hornby have been sensible, they will have ceased or carefully regulated ordering of TTTE items after taking the decision but ahead of making it public to avoid any possible dispute, and there won't be anything remotely resembling a "warehouse-full" of the stuff to be cleared. Better to skip it all rather than invite an expensive legal wrangle. 

 

However, I doubt the entire picture will become public whilst any of the above is still left to play for.

 

John

Edited June 29, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[LNWR18901910]

As of 01 January 2019, the licence will have expired and Hornby's right to sell any TTTE products remaining in their possession presumably ceases.

 

It will therefore be essential that any stocks are sold, and probably physically shifted, to retailers beforehand.

 

The item relating to Hornby not renewing the licence in the news section of the July Railway Modeller also mentions toy safety restrictions being a factor in their decision.

 

Ultimately, it may cease to be legal for anyone to sell Hornby TTTE as "new", whatever residual rights (if any) are stipulated in Hornby's contractual terms. If the licensors are as smart as we can probably assume they are, there are likely to be agreed conditions relating to the disposal of remaining stock within those terms to prevent unfair stockpiling ahead of the expiry causing a de facto unpaid extension of the licence

 

I doubt the full picture will become public whilst any of the above is still left to play for.

 

John

Well, what are Hornby gonna do with all these unsold models?

[andyram]

As of 01 January 2019, the licence will have expired and Hornby's right to sell any TTTE products remaining in their possession presumably ceases.

 

It will therefore be essential that any stocks are sold, and probably physically shifted, to retailers beforehand.

 

The item relating to Hornby not renewing the licence in the news section of the July Railway Modeller also mentions toy safety restrictions being a factor in their decision.

 

Ultimately, it may cease to be legal for anyone to sell Hornby TTTE as "new", whatever residual rights (if any) are stipulated in Hornby's contractual terms. If the licensors are as smart as we can probably assume they are, there are likely to be agreed conditions relating to the disposal of remaining stock within those terms to prevent unfair stockpiling ahead of the expiry causing a de facto unpaid extension of the licence

 

I doubt the full picture will become public whilst any of the above is still left to play for.

 

John

 

 

The toy safety issue relates to the recommended ages on the product which for a long time have had to have a "appropriate for" age far in excess of the demographic who watch TTTE.

[AGR Model Store]

If anyone wants to view part of the Bachmann TTTE range

 

http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/AGRModelRailwayStore/Bachmann-USA-Thomas-Range-/_i.html?_fsub=25518411012&_sid=311080702&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

[Dunsignalling]

Well, what are Hornby gonna do with all these unsold models?

Selling off under a condition preventing them being sold whole (i.e. to a spares trader who will strip them down) or Landfill?

 

Better than being taken to the cleaners by a litigious licensor if they considered Hornby to be pulling a fast one by building up large stocks ahead of the split.

 

However, we don't know the actual numbers that make up "all these unsold models" but, as I stated previously, I think Hornby will have been sensible enough to run stocks down to levels at which a dispute is unlikely. 

 

Anyone hoping for or expecting a huge Hornby TTTE clearance at knock-down prices will, I think, be disappointed.

 

John

Edited June 29, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Jeff Smith]

The toy safety issue relates to the recommended ages on the product which for a long time have had to have a "appropriate for" age far in excess of the demographic who watch TTTE.

These same issues may apply to the Bachmann range.

[Hroth]

A couple of days ago, Amazon was selling the basic Thomas set (R9283) for £33 inc delivery, though its now back up to £58.  Of course, though I can't explain why, I bought one...   Anyhow, it arrived this morning and examining it, I see that includes a headcode lamp in the Class J "Through Mineral or Empty Wagon Train" position, demonstrating the ignorance of the animated TV series designers who Hornby had to slavishly copy.  Thomas, with Annie and Clarabel should at least have a Class B "Local stopping train, etc" headcode!

 

Its no wonder that they're giving up the franchise! 

 

(Although I suspect the money grabbing franchising loons have something to do with it too...)

[Hilux5972]

The Hornby Thomas ranger didn’t include headlamps on any loco. That was the Bachmann range. Are you sure it’s a Hornby one? And if it is, I’d suspect it’s preowned and someone has added that detail to it.

[Flyingscotsmanfan]

On the latest incarnation of the aged model Hornby have added a lamp as well as a painted front.

[Dunsignalling]

Who cares? Next year Hornby will have more production slots available for proper model trains.

 

Rejoice!

 

There. I've just said what loads of others are really thinking.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[TravisM]

I have to say that it’s about time that Thomas was put to bed because I think it was past it’s sell by date years ago. If Hornby can’t sell new Thomas items after the 1st January, can the chassis and other items be reused on new projects?

[brack]

Who cares? Next year Hornby will have more production slots available for proper model trains.

 

Rejoice!

 

There. I've just said what loads of others are really thinking.

I suspect the lines/factories for making Thomas might be more likely to switch to smokey Joe than any superdetailed recent product.

[Dunsignalling]

I have to say that it’s about time that Thomas was put to bed because I think it was past it’s sell by date years ago. If Hornby can’t sell new Thomas items after the 1st January, can the chassis and other items be reused on new projects?

The Thomas range was, in many ways, "past its sell-by date" from the word go. The chassis (and more) generally came from existing older models, often ones made obsolete by the introduction of new generation replacements. The body-shell of Thomas himself was created by non-reversible modifications to the old LBSCR E2 moulds. 

 

I presume the tender locos will have since been modified to loco-drive as happened in the Railroad range, though.

 

John

Edited November 28, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I suspect the lines/factories for making Thomas might be more likely to switch to smokey Joe than any superdetailed recent product.

And what do the lines/factories currently making Smokey Joe switch to?

 

Always supposing, of course, that SJ and his ilk don't come from the same ones used for TTTE production already.....

Edited November 28, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

On the latest incarnation of the aged model Hornby have added a lamp as well as a painted front.

Which latest model, the Hattons images of R9283 don’t show any lamps. Yes they have painted the running board at the front grey but there no lamp. Can you post a photo?

[LNWR18901910]

The Thomas range was, in many ways, "past its sell-by date" from the word go. The chassis (and more) generally came from existing older models, often ones made obsolete by the introduction of new generation replacements. The body-shell of Thomas himself was created by non-reversible modifications to the old LBSCR E2 moulds. 

 

I presume the tender locos will have since been modified to loco-drive as happened in the Railroad range, though.

 

John

Yeah, most of them. Talking of modifications, the Hornby James model has got me thinking...Hornby should attempt a model of the G&SWR Drummond 403 Class 2-6-0or the Austrian Goods, because the model would be the closest thing you get to a inner-cylinder 2-6-0 steam loco from the Pre-Grouping Era or maybe even the Dublin & South East Railway K Class 2-6-0? What does anyone think?

[Hroth]

The Thomas range was, in many ways, "past its sell-by date" from the word go. The chassis (and more) generally came from existing older models, often ones made obsolete by the introduction of new generation replacements. The body-shell of Thomas himself was created by non-reversible modifications to the old LBSCR E2 moulds. 

 

I presume the tender locos will have since been modified to loco-drive as happened in the Railroad range, though.

 

John

 

The last incarnation of "Edward" is a modified tender driven D49/2 Hunt, with a DCC socket stuck on the back of the motor casing.  Its particularly odd as there's a gaping void where the cylinder block used to be!  "Henry" is loco-driven, I can't remember where the DCC socket is located.

 

"Thomas" ends his Hornby days without a DCC socket.

 

I'll take a picture of the silly "lamp", unless someone beats me to it!  I suspect that an insistence by the IP Rights holders that Hornby exactly follows the current design rules for Thomas, as the series moves even further away from the Awdry originals was one of the factors that influenced Hornby in discontinuing the franchise.

[Coldgunner]

DCC socket in Henry is in the loco iirc, as per the railroad black 5 chassis. The loco driven Henry is a pretty decent model imho.

[Butler Henderson]

Which latest model, the Hattons images of R9283 don’t show any lamps. Yes they have painted the running board at the front grey but there no lamp. Can you post a photo?

Crikey LampGate strikes RMweb. Quite clearly has a lamp in these photos.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/thomas-friendstm-thomas-passenger-and-goods-train-set.html

 Presumably their have been a number of production runs and Hattons have simply not updated their stock images that they took of the original  release.

[dibber25]

The Thomas range was, in many ways, "past its sell-by date" from the word go. The chassis (and more) generally came from existing older models, often ones made obsolete by the introduction of new generation replacements. The body-shell of Thomas himself was created by non-reversible modifications to the old LBSCR E2 moulds. 

 

I presume the tender locos will have since been modified to loco-drive as happened in the Railroad range, though.

 

John

 

When the Thomas range was introduced, in the 1980s, a new 0-6-0 chassis was produced. It was used first in Thomas before spreading to such things as the half-cab pannier tank. I seem to recall being told at the time that the tooling was all new as Britt Allcroft was very insistent on the accuracy of the characters. It was a big deal at the time because it tied in with the TV series etc. but that was 30-odd years ago. (CJL)

[JohnR]

When the Thomas range was introduced, in the 1980s, a new 0-6-0 chassis was produced. It was used first in Thomas before spreading to such things as the half-cab pannier tank. I seem to recall being told at the time that the tooling was all new as Britt Allcroft was very insistent on the accuracy of the characters. It was a big deal at the time because it tied in with the TV series etc. but that was 30-odd years ago. (CJL)

 

I think the half-cab pannier tank only came about because they used the tooling for the previous pannier for 'Duck', albeit with the new chassis. I dont think Duck had the motor in the cab.

[LNWR18901910]

DCC socket in Henry is in the loco iirc, as per the railroad black 5 chassis. The loco driven Henry is a pretty decent model imho.

Yep, like Hornby's Black 5 Models.