YesTor Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) It was also nice to see the models in virtual kit form prior to assembly. I can see the potential to be able to swap parts around to enable recreating 66747 - 66751, or indeed other oddball variants. It would be fantastic if such an option were available to acquire at least some of the separate parts, or better still complete unpainted 'kits'... Edited September 7, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hattons Dave Posted September 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) Afternoon all, Thank you to everyone who tuned in to the livestream yesterday. It was great fun and I hope it proved useful for people. I'd also like to thank everyone for the excellent feedback that has been provided so far. I've kept up to date with the thread and will try and address as many points as I can. I'm sorry I can't go through and reply to everyone individually but I hope the following helps. The headlight vs. taillight size, door handles, bodyside grill height and rounded cabside windows are currently being worked on by the factory with amendments having been noted. The etched bodyside grills themselves are an early sample and we are currently awaiting further samples which will be finer than those shown so far. As this is a first sample, not all of the finest details are present as of yet. This includes various details such as the cast lettering on the bogies and lifting lugs on the roof. These will start to appear on future samples. The silencer/exhaust shape conforms to all images and dimensions that we have but have noted with the factory that the depth of the port itself does need to be deeper. Nameplates will all come factory fitted but we will be performing QC checks to ensure both the quality of the etches and their placement are up to our usual high standards. In regards to DCC Sound Fitted versions, I have had it confirmed via ESU directly that we will be using the latest ESU LokSound technology. Thank you once again to everyone. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions if you've got any. Cheers, Dave Edited October 9, 2018 by Hatton's Dave 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Afternoon all, Thank you to everyone who tuned in to the livestream yesterday. It was great fun and I hope it proved useful for people. I'd also like to thank everyone for the excellent feedback that has been provided so far. I've kept up to date with the thread and will try and address as many points as I can. I'm sorry I can't go through and reply to everyone individually but I hope the following helps. The headlight vs. taillight size, door handles, bodyside grill height and rounded cabside windows are currently being worked on by the factory with amendments having been noted. The etched bodyside grills themselves are an early sample and we are currently awaiting further samples which will be finer than those shown so far. As this is a first sample, not all of the finest details are present as of yet. This includes various details such as the cast lettering on the bogies and lifting lugs on the roof. These will start to appear on future samples. The silencer/exhaust shape conforms to all images and dimensions that we have but have noted with the factory that the depth of the port itself does need to be deeper. Nameplates will all come factory fitted but we will be performing QC checks to ensure both the quality of the etches and their placement are up to our usual high standards. In regards to DCC Sound Fitted versions, I have had it confirmed via ESU directly that we will be using the new full-fat LokSound V5 decoders which are capable of controlling up to 12 functions. Thank you once again to everyone. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions if you've got any. Cheers, Dave Outstanding, can't wait for my BR LL & Biffa sound fitted versions and further purchases after that...good stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybuk Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 In regards to DCC Sound Fitted versions, I have had it confirmed via ESU directly that we will be using the new full-fat LokSound V5 decoders which are capable of controlling up to 12 functions. Awesome, thanks for confirming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) A new Loksound V5 decoder (with up to 12 function outputs available) - now that is interesting news..................... Edited September 8, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted September 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2018 Ref the exhaust comment by Yes tor these pics may be useful And regards the ‘hole’ it is indeed cavernous, even I could climb inside it! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Ref the exhaust comment by Yes tor these pics may be useful And regards the ‘hole’ it is indeed cavernous, even I could climb inside it! I know a Peugeot 206 that needs a new exhaust - do you think one would fit.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted September 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2018 I know a Peugeot 206 that needs a new exhaust - do you think one would fit.... yeah, the 206 INSIDE the 66 exhaust! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) You sure they're not spares for a Subaru WRX... Edited September 8, 2018 by classy52 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2018 Afternoon all, Thank you to everyone who tuned in to the livestream yesterday. It was great fun and I hope it proved useful for people. I'd also like to thank everyone for the excellent feedback that has been provided so far. I've kept up to date with the thread and will try and address as many points as I can. I'm sorry I can't go through and reply to everyone individually but I hope the following helps. The headlight vs. taillight size, door handles, bodyside grill height and rounded cabside windows are currently being worked on by the factory with amendments having been noted. The etched bodyside grills themselves are an early sample and we are currently awaiting further samples which will be finer than those shown so far. As this is a first sample, not all of the finest details are present as of yet. This includes various details such as the cast lettering on the bogies and lifting lugs on the roof. These will start to appear on future samples. The silencer/exhaust shape conforms to all images and dimensions that we have but have noted with the factory that the depth of the port itself does need to be deeper. Nameplates will all come factory fitted but we will be performing QC checks to ensure both the quality of the etches and their placement are up to our usual high standards. In regards to DCC Sound Fitted versions, I have had it confirmed via ESU directly that we will be using the new full-fat LokSound V5 decoders which are capable of controlling up to 12 functions. Thank you once again to everyone. Please don't hesitate to ask any further questions if you've got any. Cheers, Dave Hi Dave, I’m seriously contemplating getting several of the 66’s but can I ask, are all the different variants arriving in the UK in one hit or are they going to appear over several months? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hattons Dave Posted September 10, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2018 Hi Dave, I’m seriously contemplating getting several of the 66’s but can I ask, are all the different variants arriving in the UK in one hit or are they going to appear over several months? Hi jools, The 66s are likely to arrive in a number of batches as various versions are completed in the factory. We're expecting that 66789 (Large Logo) and 66783 (Biffa) will be the first to arrive with others following in further batches. I hope this helps. Cheers, Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2018 Hi jools, The 66s are likely to arrive in a number of batches as various versions are completed in the factory. We're expecting that 66789 (Large Logo) and 66783 (Biffa) will be the first to arrive with others following in further batches. I hope this helps. Cheers, Dave I hope your right as just ordered three lol, the first being 66789 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Okay, more thoughts for Dave, and another grilling on grills you might be pleased to know... Firstly, do you plan to depict the horns behind the horn grill? If so, the grill on the prototype really is very transparent, and I am again wondering just how much will be visible behind the grill on the model as your current EP stands? Once more pulling out a superb Shawplan etch from my box and hopefully you will see what I mean - the etch shown below is designed for a Class 56, however the principle is the same and hopefully it can be seen just how fine a grill has been etched into just a few millimeters, particularly when assembled with the horn showing through clearly underneath. The finished appearance really is very fine indeed. Whether it is of any significance, it seems that the finer grills always appear to be formed from steel, as opposed to brass, so perhaps therefore possible to achieve a finer (and at the same time slightly stronger) etch? Sorry to sound critical, pedantic, or both, but I can't help but feel that the horn grill on the EP doesn't quite come close to that level, and to my eye it doesn't necessarily look as though very much will be able to actually show through from beneath, should you choose to depict the actual horns inside the grill, which would indeed be a very nice added touch? Second point, this time concerning the front handrail. I can see that you have naturally opted for the plastic type of handrail. Okay, I understand the reasons why, as the handrail is attached at various points along its length and is also of a specific shape, however, very much akin to the Bachmann model (or indeed any model with plastic rails), and as your photo indeed confirms, it is very often near-impossible to obtain a perfectly straight rail. Thinking of other models with a similar design of handrail and I always feel that Heljan got it right with their Class 58 - an almost identical handrail design with several attachment points along its length - however instead formed from metal, thus avoiding the potential for unsightly bends/kinks, although of course a slightly different means of attachment would be required... Best Al Edited September 14, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium James Makin Posted September 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 13, 2018 With that side-by-side photo comparison between 66789 and the model 66 front-on above, is it just the angles/trick of the eye that the ‘flat bit’ above the light clusters appears shorter on the model than 66789? Cheers, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Okay, more thoughts for Dave, and another grilling on grills you might be be pleased to know... 66 horn b.jpg 66 horn a.jpg Firstly, do you plan to depict the horns behind the horn grill? If so, the grill on the prototype really is very transparent, and I am again wondering just how much will be visible behind the grill on the model as your current EP stands? Once more pulling out a superb Shawplan etch from my box and hopefully you will see what I mean - the etch shown below is designed for a Class 56, however the principle is the same and hopefully it can be seen just how fine a grill has been etched into just a few millimeters, particularly when assembled with the horn showing through clearly underneath. The finished appearance really is very fine indeed. Whether it is of any significance, it seems that the finer grills always appear to be formed from steel, as opposed to brass, so perhaps therefore possible to achieve a finer (and at the same time slightly stronger) etch? Sorry to sound critical, pedantic, or both, but I can't help but feel that the horn grill on the EP doesn't quite come close to that level, and to my eye it doesn't necessarily look as though very much will be able to actually show through from beneath, should you choose to depict the actual horns inside the grill, which would indeed be a very nice added touch? Shawplan 56 horn grill a.JPG Shawplan 56 horn grill b.JPG Shawplan 56 horn grill c.JPG Second point, this time concerning the front handrail. I can see that you have naturally opted for the plastic type of handrail. Okay, I understand the reasons why, as the handrail is attached at various points along its length and is also of a specific shape, however, very much akin to the Bachmann model (or indeed any model with plastic rails), and as your photo indeed confirms, it is very often near-impossible to obtain a perfectly straight rail. Thinking of other models with a similar design of handrail and I always feel that Heljan got it right with their Class 58 - an almost identical handrail design with several attachment points along its length - however instead formed from metal, thus avoiding the potential for unsightly bends/kinks, although of course a slightly different means of attachment would be required... 66 front handrail.jpg Best Al Hi, regarding YesTor's latest post. Is it just me, or the photos - but everything on the new model's front appears to me to be 1-2mm too low between the Horn Grille and the Buffers. Secondly, agree with YesTor that Shawplans etch's do seem extremely subtle, allowing detail behind to show through. Stainless steel is much harder than brass, possibly enabling finer detail to be produced, but still retain its structural strength. Only other point would be, with the grilles in the clean air compartment being so see-through - will the radiator be represented behind it? Regards, C. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 But even more worrying...still no newspaper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Okay, more thoughts for Dave, and another grilling on grills you might be be pleased to know... 66 horn b.jpg 66 horn a.jpg Firstly, do you plan to depict the horns behind the horn grill? If so, the grill on the prototype really is very transparent, and I am again wondering just how much will be visible behind the grill on the model as your current EP stands? Once more pulling out a superb Shawplan etch from my box and hopefully you will see what I mean - the etch shown below is designed for a Class 56, however the principle is the same and hopefully it can be seen just how fine a grill has been etched into just a few millimeters, particularly when assembled with the horn showing through clearly underneath. The finished appearance really is very fine indeed. Whether it is of any significance, it seems that the finer grills always appear to be formed from steel, as opposed to brass, so perhaps therefore possible to achieve a finer (and at the same time slightly stronger) etch? Sorry to sound critical, pedantic, or both, but I can't help but feel that the horn grill on the EP doesn't quite come close to that level, and to my eye it doesn't necessarily look as though very much will be able to actually show through from beneath, should you choose to depict the actual horns inside the grill, which would indeed be a very nice added touch? Shawplan 56 horn grill a.JPG Shawplan 56 horn grill b.JPG Shawplan 56 horn grill c.JPG Second point, this time concerning the front handrail. I can see that you have naturally opted for the plastic type of handrail. Okay, I understand the reasons why, as the handrail is attached at various points along its length and is also of a specific shape, however, very much akin to the Bachmann model (or indeed any model with plastic rails), and as your photo indeed confirms, it is very often near-impossible to obtain a perfectly straight rail. Thinking of other models with a similar design of handrail and I always feel that Heljan got it right with their Class 58 - an almost identical handrail design with several attachment points along its length - however instead formed from metal, thus avoiding the potential for unsightly bends/kinks, although of course a slightly different means of attachment would be required... 66 front handrail.jpg Best Al Interesting points, something else I've noticed from your photos are the windscreens a little bit too square rather than being slightly more oblong ? on the model and/or perhaps the centre pillar between them is too wide...was this not an issue with the Bachmmnn 66 also ? Edited September 13, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) With that side-by-side photo comparison between 66789 and the model 66 front-on above, is it just the angles/trick of the eye that the ‘flat bit’ above the light clusters appears shorter on the model than 66789? Cheers, James Hmmm, good point. My side-by-side images were not quite aligned perfectly, so I have adjusted the alignment and sizing marginally so that they line-up with each other as best I can. As you imply, I'm not sure just how much can, or indeed should, be determined from comparisons such as this, as it is immediately obvious that the viewing angle of the prototype differs from that of the model - the latter being what appears to be a totally head-on shot, whereas the prototype we are effectively looking up at from a very slight angle. Anyway, I have adjusted the images so that the width of each locomotive is identical (which should be virtually the same whatever the viewing angle [within reason]), and used the seam that separates the buffer beam from the body (just in line with the cluster light fittings) as the point of horizontal alignment. From this analysis we might conclude that, as you describe it, the ‘flat bit’ above the light clusters is indeed too shallow, along with various other horizontal elements being out of line, eg. handrail, buffers etc. However, and it's a big however, all of this could well simply be caused purely due to the viewing angles of both examples, and if we were able to tilt the angle of the prototype forward slightly then we might find that everything would sit perfectly in line? Better still would be a totally head-on photograph of the prototype, however this was the best photo I could find. What I might conclude however, despite the difference in viewing angle of each example, is that there is indeed a [small] discrepancy in the distances indicated by the arrows "A", in that the proportion of the light cluster height to the height of the vertical section that the clusters are mounted on differs on each example. The danger of course with these kind of comparisons is where do you draw the line, as the tendency is that the more we look at something the more discrepancies we are guaranteed to find, but still, I guess it's probably right that we point these things out. Al Edited September 14, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Interesting points, something else I've noticed from your photos are the windscreens a little bit too square rather than being slightly more oblong ? on the model and/or perhaps the centre pillar between them is too wide...was this not an issue with the Bachmmnn 66 also ? I too was looking at the width of the central windscreen pillar earlier with a slight doubt, but concluded that we have to account for the fact that what effectively represents the rubber window grommet is on the model at this point finished in the same colour as the bodyshell, thus making the window area appear just very slightly smaller than what it actually is. I have a feeling that if this surround were to be picked-out in black then this would create an entirely different effect overall. Personally I think the windscreens look about right. The cabside windows (as previously discussed) are somewhat questionable in my mind, but maybe those will change. It's strange, I have never been a huge fan of Bachmann's 'shed', but despite this I have always maintained that the strongest feature/area of the Bachmann model (aside from the generally correct shape) was indeed the cab area - the cabside windows and windscreens I think would be difficult to improve (unless some totally new method of glazing is invented for models of this size) - as they are flush-fitting, totally 'square'/rigid where they should be and far more transparent than glazing in most RTR models. I was in fact informed by one manufacturer that there are generally two options when it comes to glazing - a more realistic, rigid-cornered type that generally appears far more prototypical, or the more commonplace rounded-corner type glazing complete with all of the unwanted 'fishbowl' effect that we all love to hate. The reason for the two types being that the latter, rounded-corner/fishbowl type was simply faster on the assembly line, as rounded corners snap into recesses far more readily than a precise-fitting, rigid-cornered piece, thus reducing costs. An interesting little fact I might never have otherwise guessed. Edited September 14, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 But even more worrying...still no newspaper! Drivers have Ipads and tablets these days..... Lack of hot plate in the cab is more noticable Regards, C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted September 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2018 Very happy to hear in the interview mention that the tooling can do 66001/2 in original condition Now just have to wait for batch 2 I guess 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2018 Close up photos are great for comparison, but do we get carried away sometimes? I've photographed my own models and found things on them that aren't easily visible to the naked eye. (In fact they probably wouldn't have been noticed except for the enlarged photo) The photos of the models a few posts up are about twice the size of the actual model. Would the discrepancies be so noticeable if they were 1:1 size of the model itself? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 I too was looking at the width of the central windscreen pillar earlier with a slight doubt, but concluded that we have to account for the fact that what effectively represents the rubber window grommet is on the model at this point finished in the same colour as the bodyshell, thus making the window area appear just very slightly smaller than what it actually is. I have a feeling that if this surround were to be picked-out in black then this would create an entirely different effect overall. Personally I think the windscreens look about right. The cabside windows (as previously discussed) are somewhat questionable in my mind, but maybe those will change. It's strange, I have never been a huge fan of Bachmann's 'shed', but despite this I have always maintained that the strongest feature/area of the Bachmann model (aside from the generally correct shape) was indeed the cab area - the cabside windows and windscreens I think would be difficult to improve (unless some totally new method of glazing is invented for models of this size) - as they are flush-fitting, totally 'square'/rigid where they should be and far more transparent than glazing in most RTR models. I was in fact informed by one manufacturer that there are generally two options when it comes to glazing - a more realistic, rigid-cornered type that generally appears far more prototypical, or the more commonplace rounded-corner type glazing complete with all of the unwanted 'fishbowl' effect that we all love to hate. The reason for the two types being that the latter, rounded-corner/fishbowl type was simply faster on the assembly line, as rounded corners snap into recesses far more readily than a precise-fitting, rigid-cornered piece, thus reducing costs. An interesting little fact I might never have otherwise guessed. Yes perhaps once painted with black grommets etc - it may/will change the perspective... As for the etched horn grilles, the ones fitted on the sample model are rather heavy, a finer etch would definitely look much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Close up photos are great for comparison, but do we get carried away sometimes? The photos of the models a few posts up are about twice the size of the actual model. Would the discrepancies be so noticeable if they were 1:1 size of the model itself? Cheers, Mick Of course, which is why I said, "Where do you draw the line". The other viewpoint of course is, why get something wrong when there is an opportunity to get it right... I don't think that any of us here are in any way trying to downgrade the manufacturer's efforts, instead simply airing areas that stand out as maybe being questionable. And of course everyone will have different viewpoints/ideas... All that said, the 'face' of any loco is generally what we look at first, and probably the most crucial to get absolutely spot-on. Edited September 14, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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