Wentworth Junction

[Bri.dolan]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The signal box is now being painted, sprayed all over white at the moment but I now have a choice of colours (I think). The only colour photos I have of this box show the steps, platforms and ironwork black, the rest all white - but these are from the 1970s. I have one black and white photo of the box in the same paint scheme but it's undated and I have colour photos of other boxes on the MSW (e.g Dunford East) with the steps and main corner woodwork painted green. Does anyone have any idea or proof of which colour scheme is an appropriate for the 1950s?

best I’ve seen is 1970/71 

black and white with what I assumed was off white with green barge boards steps and footboards with black iron work ,ive not been able to find a photo earlier than 1970 unfortunately 

 

regards 

 

Brian 

[John76]

5 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The signal box is now being painted, sprayed all over white at the moment but I now have a choice of colours (I think). The only colour photos I have of this box show the steps, platforms and ironwork black, the rest all white - but these are from the 1970s. I have one black and white photo of the box in the same paint scheme but it's undated and I have colour photos of other boxes on the MSW (e.g Dunford East) with the steps and main corner woodwork painted green. Does anyone have any idea or proof of which colour scheme is a appropriate for the 1950s?

Hi Mike

 

Do you have these two books?

  

 

Both have photos of Lewden Crossing. The first (Rails Through Barnsley) has a photo taken in 1958 shows the box in green and cream. The second book (The Sheffield Asthon Under Lyne & Manchester Railway) has a photo taken in 1967, and the box has been repainted in light grey and black bargeboards?. Have you seen them?

I'm guessing the paint scheme at Lewden would be similar to Wentworth given the proximity of these two boxes.

 

John

[Michael Edge]

I think it's fairly clear that the LNER colour scheme is the one to do and the BR white/black was applied later. I have one photo of a fragment of Strafford crossing box and that was in cream/green, again undated but the wires are up in it - Dunford East box was in these colours right to the end in 1981. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

[t-b-g]

A similar bit of searching was done before choosing the colours for the signal boxes on Retford, set in 1957. We did manage to find colour photos at the right date and they were still green and cream. So if a mainline place like Retford was still in LNER colours then, it is highly likely that somewhere like Wentworth would be too.

 

Geoff Kent came up with a lighter green than you might expect, with a hint of blue/grey, that represented the colour that the green faded to after years of weathering and exposure to the sun.

 

It looks very effective and much better than the much stronger green that it would have been 10 or more years earlier.

 

I attach a rather poorly lit snap to give an idea.

 

Edit to add a link to a prototype photo of Deepcar, well after your period and still green and cream but very grotty! It shows the effect of the fading on the green well though

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154596801@N04/46875238541

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by t-b-g
To add content

[gr.king]

Is there any remote chance that thanks to WW2 and post-war austerity, repainting had been neglected for long enough for the box to still be in pre-1937ish LNER colours, maybe brown and cream?

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Is there any remote chance that thanks to WW2 and post-war austerity, repainting had been neglected for long enough for the box to still be in pre-1937ish LNER colours, maybe brown and cream?

 

The photo of Deepcar shows that signal boxes could go for several decades without getting a fresh coat of paint, so I would think there is a slight chance. You are quite right. After 1937 there were lots of problems which could have led to repainting being put on the back burner.

 

I have seen one colour photo of a GCR box taken in the mid 1950s that certainly looks like very tatty brown and cream paint. 

 

However, the fact that Deepcar was in LNER green and cream (in 1985) would suggest that there was some effort to repaint signal boxes in that general area of the former GCR between 1937 and 1947. Whether they all got done is something that we may struggle to find out.

[DavidLong]

Is it just my impression or did the ER/NER either a) not repaint their boxes or b) just repaint them in LNER colours? All the other four regions used the regional colour + cream/off-white to repaint their boxes but I don't recall seeing any photos of ER/NER boxes in dark blue/tangerine livery.

The region that I was most familiar with was the LMR and I do have recall of the obvious fading of the maroon to more of a pinkish tone over time. This was especially noticeable as the numerous vitreous enamel signs retained a strong colour for much longer. The fading was very noticeable on any wooden surfaces that had been painted.

Wasn't there some dark humour on the railway in the 1960s that when the painters came to call this merely presaged a closure proposal!

 

David

[Michael Edge]

The colour photo of Dunford East box shows an LMR maroon nameboard rather than the old LNER one and that one was never re-painted.

[Michael Edge]

Signal box now painted, it does need some filth adding before glazing though.

After much deliberation I decided on the LNER colours, I prefer this anyway. I couldn't get at the door at the top of the steps to paint it green so it will have to stay cream,

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Signal box now painted, it does need some filth adding before glazing though.

After much deliberation I decided on the LNER colours, I prefer this anyway. I couldn't get at the door at the top of the steps to paint it green so it will have to stay cream,

 

https://es.iherb.com/pr/bdellium-tools-pink-bambu-708-bent-eyeliner-1-brush/49359?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlaGqnum9_AIVbpBoCR3HUwNkEAQYAiABEgICf_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

I find these come in handy in such situations, not that I've ever been in that situation of course!!

 

Mike.

[gr.king]

Did the LNER paint the lowest 3 to 4 feet of the board cladding green too?

[Michael Edge]

Maybe but Dunford East was cream (+ dirt) all the way to the ground.

[Michael Edge]

It was warm enough yesterday to do a bit of work in the shed so the signal box is now fixed in place.

The roof isn't fixed so I can still do the interior (if I ever get round to it). The box should really overhang the embankment at the back but I'm not going to alter the ground level now. Next will be the bothy about where the ash wagon is standing and a platelayer's hut a the other side of the line. Plenty more clutter to add here as well.

[LNERGE]

I’m expecting to see a nice butt under that converging down pipe in due course. 

[65179]

42 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

I’m expecting to see a nice butt under that converging down pipe in due course. 

 

One of those moments I realise I may have watched too much of The Simpsons...

[Michael Edge]

15 hours ago, LNERGE said:

I’m expecting to see a nice butt under that converging down pipe in due course. 

Sorry to disappoint you but the down pipe turns into the locking room there, the drain must have been under the floor.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

No ifs, no butts?

 

Mike.

[Michael Edge]

This afternoon I managed to build this platelayer's cabin for the layout.

Quick and easy from mostly .040" plastikard, the strips covering the joins between the sleepers are round section set into scribed grooves, then sanded flat.

I managed to watch the very entertaining rugby match as well - hard luck Italy!

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

 hard luck Italy!

Agreed.  No longer can they be relied upon to support the rest of the teams in the table.  I fear my team has a lot of work to do - not even a loser’s bonus.

Paul.

[John76]

6 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

This afternoon I managed to build this platelayer's cabin for the layout.

Quick and easy from mostly .040" plastikard, the strips covering the joins between the sleepers are round section set into scribed grooves, then sanded flat.

I managed to watch the very entertaining rugby match as well - hard luck Italy!

Mike,

Great little cabin. Does it have a window at the other end and will it have a chimney at the rear?

John

[Michael Edge]

According to the drawing I have these huts didn't have any windows, it does show a brick chimney at the back but this cabin didn't have one. There are others up and down the line which have  stovepipe sticking out of the roof but I can't see any with the brick chimney.

[gr.king]

16 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

This afternoon I managed to build this platelayer's cabin for the layout.

Quick and easy from mostly .040" plastikard, the strips covering the joins between the sleepers are round section set into scribed grooves, then sanded flat.

I managed to watch the very entertaining rugby match as well - hard luck Italy!

 

The cabin is all the better for having been hand-built at the required small scale, rather than extruded through the nozzle of a computer controlled machine following a set of instructions created at a keyboard with the luxury of a giant-sized 3D illustration.

[Michael Edge]

I think it might actually have been quicker as well....

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, gr.king said:

 

The cabin is all the better for having been hand-built at the required small scale, rather than extruded through the nozzle of a computer controlled machine following a set of instructions created at a keyboard with the luxury of a giant-sized 3D illustration.

 

Which opens up a can of worms, again, if we're not careful!

 

Mike.

[Michael Edge]

Back to the EM1 production line now.

This time, instead of sawing off the whole cab I've left the roof on at each end - I found when I cut the whole thing off I hadn't got each end quite identical on the original 1984 pattern.

Just the handrails by the cab doors and the pantographs and this one will be ready to paint as 26013.

Only another thirteen to do now....

For the trains on the layout now 17 EM1s would be needed to replace all the steam locos apart from the colliery trip working.