RevolutioN Announces Crowdfunded N Gauge Class 128

[jonhinds]

11 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi there,

 

If you have any uncertainly please contact our customer support manager using the email in the instruction. 

 

However, please note that we are closed until the middle of the week as we were at GETS this weekend.fd

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

All sorted, turns out it was decoder function mapping that was the issue.

 

Just to say I’m really impressed at how quickly Simon was able to resolve the issue via email. A+ customer service!

[Steven B]

Model shops are now receiving their orders - My two-tone blue one arrived from The Model Centre (TMC) this morning. (unless they collected from from Revolution at the GETS last weekend!)

[Revolution Mike]

A couple of retailers got their orders at GETS this weekend. The rest will go out this week. 

[jbqfc]

tested my 3 today they all run great so quiet and smooth Thanks for yet another great model 

 

John 

[alangdance]

just waiting for my email to pay the final amount. Looking forward to have a play.

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo,

starting at 1m18s an interesting rake featuring 55993

es grüßt

pc 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Padishar Creel

[woodenhead]

Arghh - fitted the Zimo MS580 sound chip and it's a crackly speaker - unit runs lovely, it sounds lovely whilst idle but once it begins to move there is a real electrical crackle going on.

 

Support email raised.

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

Just paid the balances on my 3, slightly complicated by filling in the form to collect these and the Pendolino set at GETS but then no-showing due to a poorly carer.

I did contact form RevolutioN on Sunday morning to advise them, and now feeling a little less envious knowing they will be with me presently.

 

Regards, Gerry.

[woodenhead]

On 17/10/2023 at 22:10, woodenhead said:

Arghh - fitted the Zimo MS580 sound chip and it's a crackly speaker - unit runs lovely, it sounds lovely whilst idle but once it begins to move there is a real electrical crackle going on.

 

Support email raised.

Got a response from RevolutioN today - turn down the sound, which has removed the crackle and once the body goes on it gets louder in all that empty space.

 

Gonna see how it goes, but it seems to have done the trick.

[Hearts1874]

got the email yesterday to pay the balance but for some reason invoice still has my old address from nearly 2yrs ago

 

 

cheers 

john

[Roy L S]

12 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Got a response from RevolutioN today - turn down the sound, which has removed the crackle and once the body goes on it gets louder in all that empty space.

 

Gonna see how it goes, but it seems to have done the trick.

It is a "solution" I read about and tried yesterday, I shared by e-mail with Simon at RevolutioN although he may of course have already reached the conclusion through other means too. One point I would wish to stress though, is that while this is a "fix" of sorts and may satisfy some people which is great, it is only achieved by reducing CV266 down from default of 75 (to in my case 40) which pretty much eliminates the "crackle" but at the expense of making the sound quieter. I tested the chip in a Next 18 Farish Class 31 when at original settings and there was no distortion from the speaker, so unfortunately my conclusion remains that at least some of the 128 speakers as fitted aren't fully up to the job. 

 

In saying the above, of course it is early days and RevolutioN who are a very small team need time to fully investigate and possibly go back to the factory, I am sure we will hear from them in a more "official" capacity when they have done so.

 

On the positive side, speaker issue apart, I think the 128 is a gorgeous model, beautifully detailed and finished with a really well designed and smooth running mechanism, all of which which bodes well for the 120. 

 

Roy

[woodenhead]

@Roy L S I agree that perhaps the speaker is not quite up to the job, but after turning down the sound it's still more than loud enough for my purposes so I can live with it over sending it back etc unless it returns.

 

What I hope of course is that any lessons are learnt for the next use of the chassis which will be the class 120.

 

From a running perspective though, it is a silky smooth chassis.

[alangdance]

still waiting for my invoice. 

[Kaput]

Worth checking if the crackly speakers are properly sealed in the enclosure, a dab of PVA glue round the seal can be enough to correct if not.

 

Bare in mind the little sugarcube speakers are only usually rated at 0.8W so won't really like being loud.

[4firstimes]

The revolution team should be congratulated on the production  of a decent Class 128 DPU. The long awaited model could be a taster  for what can be achieved with many of the longer chassis designed DMUs, can’t wait for the Class 120 DMUs to appear having travelled miles on these in my younger days These classes of DMUs, certainly didn’t bounce around compared with the shorter chassis DMUs class 101 , 108 and 105s . Those 120s where the buffet bar had been removed , certainly made a comfortable area to list down after one to many lemonade shandys waiting for the last train home.
With the receipt of two class 128s and fitting  a Zimo sound chip, with the sound file of the Leyland Albion. The revolution design team have certainly given vast thought. At the time when the model was announced, I don’t know if the option of sound fitted or non sound fitted was given , however seeing that the models come with pre-fitted speaker, this is a welcome design consideration.

I can vouch for the best of the sound files representing the reproduction of the Leyland Albion sound for the prime mover. Lowering the sound level reduces the distortion and checking the seal on the sugar cube speaker pays dividends. Select the function to hear the second engine, the sound is awesome. Tweaking a few CVS the reported distortion disappears and the level is acceptable for home use. I find sound fitted locomotives in N Gauge at exhibitions the sound is lost. However, when at home it’s acceptable and after a period of time is not over powering. I would be interested to know through this forum which are the other distributors of Class 128 DPU sound file I have two different ones downloaded onto a Zimo next 18, one is streets ahead of the other and is he I remember the Class128 DPU , being thrashed. I will add I generally avoid buying models with the sound file already loaded on the chip preferring to consider the aftermarket offerings. 
The release of this model by revolution trains; and when I compared the models released in the last 12 months by the alternative manufacturers represents a significant challenge to the main stream N Gauge manufactures who really need to tighten their quality control processes.

[Revolution Mike]

4 hours ago, alangdance said:

still waiting for my invoice. 

Please login to your account on our website as it should be there (if you haven’t had it via email which is subject to the vagaries of what email providers block). If it isn’t then drop us a message through our website and we will sort it. 
 

cheers Mike

[Hamm 69]

Hy guys just received my midland blue this morning and was wondering how the body is unclipped? Is it similar to the Dapol set up where you work you're way round the body shell easing it away?

[Roy L S]

1 minute ago, Hamm 69 said:

Hy guys just received my midland blue this morning and was wondering how the body is unclipped? Is it similar to the Dapol set up where you work you're way round the body shell easing it away?

Yes, just very gently get your fingernails underneath in the gap between body and chassis and it should ease out slightly then up. Be aware of the way round in relation to the chassis, apparently it only goes on one way round.

[Roy L S]

18 hours ago, 4firstimes said:

The revolution team should be congratulated on the production  of a decent Class 128 DPU. The long awaited model could be a taster  for what can be achieved with many of the longer chassis designed DMUs, can’t wait for the Class 120 DMUs to appear having travelled miles on these in my younger days These classes of DMUs, certainly didn’t bounce around compared with the shorter chassis DMUs class 101 , 108 and 105s . Those 120s where the buffet bar had been removed , certainly made a comfortable area to list down after one to many lemonade shandys waiting for the last train home.
With the receipt of two class 128s and fitting  a Zimo sound chip, with the sound file of the Leyland Albion. The revolution design team have certainly given vast thought. At the time when the model was announced, I don’t know if the option of sound fitted or non sound fitted was given , however seeing that the models come with pre-fitted speaker, this is a welcome design consideration.

I can vouch for the best of the sound files representing the reproduction of the Leyland Albion sound for the prime mover. Lowering the sound level reduces the distortion and checking the seal on the sugar cube speaker pays dividends. Select the function to hear the second engine, the sound is awesome. Tweaking a few CVS the reported distortion disappears and the level is acceptable for home use. I find sound fitted locomotives in N Gauge at exhibitions the sound is lost. However, when at home it’s acceptable and after a period of time is not over powering. I would be interested to know through this forum which are the other distributors of Class 128 DPU sound file I have two different ones downloaded onto a Zimo next 18, one is streets ahead of the other and is he I remember the Class128 DPU , being thrashed. I will add I generally avoid buying models with the sound file already loaded on the chip preferring to consider the aftermarket offerings. 
The release of this model by revolution trains; and when I compared the models released in the last 12 months by the alternative manufacturers represents a significant challenge to the main stream N Gauge manufactures who really need to tighten their quality control processes.

The sound-file I have on mine was pre-loaded by YouChoos, it is of their Class 108 modified with sliding doors rather than slam ones (apparently I haven't tried that function). The 108 has essentially the same engines but with lower power rating than the 128 which of course could and did often haul a tail-load hence needing the extra oomph. I am quite happy with it, but whether another may be "better" I couldn't say as I have never heard a real 128 and is probably subjective anyway.

 

On the issue of QC I think a bit more balance is needed here as the 128 out of the box, lovely and really well designed though it certainly appears to be, is certainly not in many reported cases free from issues for the sound-user. The speaker crackle while possible to all but "fix" by reducing the CV266 master volume should not be there and it shouldn't be necessary to do that, I have tested the same Zimo sound chip in another sound enabled Next 18 loco (Farish Class 31) at the default sound setting and it was perfect - no crackle at all so there definitely is a speaker issue to investigate.

 

Opinions about what are "good" or "bad" will obviously anyway vary with experience, and no manufacture would claim to be able to deliver 100% of perfect models in any given batch - that just isn't realistic with mass production. My experience over the last 12 months has been mixed: -

 

- I have had to return two Rapido Class 28s out of three (one to Rails and one to Rapido) with a failed ESU sound-decoder (a common fault).

- One out of two Sonic J50s went back to Rails for replacement due to poor running.

- Two EFE J94s recently received are fine on analogue but I await micro-decoders to test them on DCC.

- I have purchased a non-sound Kernow Golden Ochre Farish 31 (the one I used for the test mentioned above), two sound-fitted Farish 4F 0-6-0s and a Farish sound-fitted Ivatt 2MT - all perfect.

- I received my first 128 with a speaker-crackle which Ben and Simon very kindly swapped for another at GETS last weekend, but sadly the replacement had the same issue.

 

What is more important to me is the response from the manufacturers to a given issue that is identified. Here, and to get back on topic, talking specifically of the case of my 128, the issue was speedily acknowledged by the Revolution Team and a commitment made by to investigate. For that to be done thoroughly will take time, so I am happy to wait, they are enthusiasts themselves and were clearly disappointed when I spoke to them - they want to and I am sure will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime run my 128 at reduced volume almost free from crackle until a "proper" fix is advised.

 

Roy

[woodenhead]

My choice of sound was Digitrains, but they don't say if it's genuine 128 sound or from another unit but it sounds like a DMU to me so all is good.

[Steven B]

It's unlikely to be a genuine class 128 - the last one was scraped in 1991. 

The Leyland Albion engine was shared with

Class 114 Derby Heavyweights (5 motor cars preserved)

Class 115 Derby Suburban Quads (8 motor cars preserved)

Class 123 Swindon Inter-City (non preserved)

Class 124 Swindon Inter-City (non preserved)

 

Steven B.

[Revolution Mike]

I’m not sure why turning down the master volume isn’t seen as a genuine fix?

 

The speaker works fine (including the returned one) with different sound decoder/sound projects so I’m not sure whether it is the sound project or decoder amp that is causing the distortion. The speaker is a fairly standard sugar cube IIRC but it is fair to say that there are better speakers out there but that cost more (we have to find a balance between customers who want an easy sound upgrade vs customers who will never use sound).
 

We will continue to investigate. 
 

cheers Mike

[Roy L S]

1 hour ago, Revolution Mike said:

I’m not sure why turning down the master volume isn’t seen as a genuine fix?

 

The speaker works fine (including the returned one) with different sound decoder/sound projects so I’m not sure whether it is the sound project or decoder amp that is causing the distortion. The speaker is a fairly standard sugar cube IIRC but it is fair to say that there are better speakers out there but that cost more (we have to find a balance between customers who want an easy sound upgrade vs customers who will never use sound).
 

We will continue to investigate. 
 

cheers Mike

Hi Mike

 

Well, I am somewhat taken aback - speaking as a purchaser of the 128 and potential 120 customer too I find that a really disappointing response. 

 

The simple answer answer to your question is because it is a bit of a "band aid" fix that doesn't address the underlying issue which is the speaker, as I have already mentioned this Zimo chip with that 128 sound-file loaded worked perfectly well in a Farish 31, so it does seem a bit lame to blame them.   Also, just to mention that although much improved, even with the CV value reduced to 40, my second 128 still has a slight crackle under certain conditions so isn't completely fixed. 

 

If you are saying that fitting a lower quality speaker than you might have is acceptable because not everybody runs sound then I am truly speechless - based on that logic why go to the trouble of fitting a 24 pin decoder socket to the 59 when not everybody uses DCC - surely a cheaper 6-pin one would do just fine?? It would also I think be fair to point out that from comments here and elsewhere it does seems to be the case that this speaker issue isn't isolated to a single type of chip or sound-project as is implied above, so further investigation most certainly does seem more than warranted.

 

As I have already said, the model is in every other respect lovely and a credit to all involved in it's development, just a shame that this one thing has become an issue.

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Roy L S

[Revolution Mike]

Roy

 

Sorry but that isn't true that it is a band aid fix - I would expect a sound project and decoder to need to be set up/tuned for the particular speaker being used (that includes setting the volume at appropriate levels). That is true for all sound decoder / sound project /speaker combinations.  For the sound projects which we offer factory fitted we have to do exactly that - there is no point in putting a decoder at max volume if it is going to overpower the speaker (modern decoders have more powerful amps than previous generations eg the Loksound has gone from 1.8W to 3W IIRC).  

 

The difference here is that we haven't got a factory fitted version where that tuning would already have been done. That isn't blaming anything just explaining why it can be necessary. I know that some third party sound decoder providers are working on doing exactly that tuning process.

 

As I said the flip side of what you experienced is that we put a different decoder and different sound project into the 128 that had a crackle and there was no crackle (both our experience and yours can be right!). 

 

We've tried to be open and honest about why certain things can happen.  

 

I'm sorry that you find that all disappointing. As I said we will continue to investigate.

 

Mike

[Kaput]

Worth noting the Zimo manual still suggests CV266 =  64 as the highest "distortion free" volume.