JSpencer Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 As the latest Annual Report shows they are getting some of the overheads down at long last albeit far too late in my view. However year-on-year sales have fallen over the edge of a cliff from £47.4 million last year down to £35.7 million this year although there are a number of widely differing reasons for this fall varying from no fire sale to - probably far more importantly and definitely critically - continuing supply problems especially in the model railway area. Of course reduced sales don't necessarily mean reduced profitability but in Hornby's case it has with 2018 showing even bigger losses than 2017 just about whatever way you care to measure the losses in money terms. Indeed supply is definitely slow this year. We thought they had cracked them last year, but something has gone wrong again. From the list extensive items I ordered, I've so far had just 2 cattle wagons and a coach (oh and 5 TTS chips). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Indeed supply is definitely slow this year. We thought they had cracked them last year, but something has gone wrong again. From the list extensive items I ordered, I've so far had just 2 cattle wagons and a coach (oh and 5 TTS chips). Yep it’s as simple as you can’t make money if you have nothing to sell . There are lots of issues at Hornby , inconsistent marketing, variable QC , large overheads for a small organisation but the central one is lack of control over their manufacturers . They had all their eggs in one basket, Sanda Kan , when that manufacturer closed there was major turmoil from which they’ve never really recovered. Edited October 1, 2018 by Legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Haven't they tried this (fairly unsuccsfully) before with the 72xx+3 PO wagons(R3670) and K1+3 PO wagons(R3671)? Pricewise, the K1 pack retails at something north of £12 what you'd pay Hornby for the sum of its parts and although Hornby don't appear to currently list the 72xx separately, a similar collection with the 42/52xx as an alternative works out as £14 cheaper than the 72xx pack. Of course, both packs are available elsewhere at suitably (considerably) discounted prices!A curious approach to marketing...btw, the Hornby website currently identifies the 72xx in the package as having a 2-8-8 wheel arrangement. Perhaps thats where the price differential arises? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2018 Yep it’s as simple as you can’t make money if you have nothing to sell . There are lots of issues at Hornby , inconsistent marketing, variable QC , large overheads for a small organisation but the central one is lack of control over their manufacturers . They had all their eggs in one basket, Sanda Kan , when that manufacturer closed there was major turmoil from which they’ve never really recovered. At least the supply issue is very openly addressed in the Annual Report with mention of action to solve it. But then similar things have been said in previous Annual Reports although at least this time some of the problem seems to be more clearly identified which might mean a more positive solution is in mind, and still factories in China are out there looking for model railway work and in some cases taking on a bit of financial risk in order to get it. One potential answer might be to go into a joint business arrangement with a Chinese owned/managed factory as Rapido have done but it still will inevitably leave them in the hands of a Chinese business as Chinese law won't allow them to gain full control or to own premises in mainland China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffed 1 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) You've hit the nail on the head, Jason. The concept of packaging slow moving items and selling them at a premium is hardly new - remember Triang's 'Midland Passenger' with an antediluvian 3F and a couple of shortie coaches? What is worrying is the complete ignorance of railway practice, product saleability and market impact. I pointed this out at last year's 'Great Electric Train Show', where the latest revamp of the 14xx had precedence over the superlative H class in the glass display cabinet. I asked the helpful Hornby rep why this ancient reworking was overshadowing a potential blockbuster. "oh, because it's a special anniversary issue to celebrate Warley..." "But we're not at Warley...??!" Edited October 3, 2018 by Andy Y 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) . Edited November 6, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Islesy Posted October 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) removed content That’s enough now, that kind of comment is a bloody disgrace and deserves no place on this forum... Edited October 3, 2018 by Andy Y Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 That’s enough now, that kind of comment is a bloody disgrace and deserves no place on this forum... I fully agree and the comment is alas what you get in social media. All the best to you, and Hornby! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 In this case i think less could have been more: A streamlined B17 in conjunction with an established kit builder (again like ooworks) could have seen the chassis put to good use, and the sale of an A4 tender too.. it could have been quite an exclusive product, that would recover more financially to cover burning the B17 body and reusing the tender on something else. No need to burn all the B17 bodies. Some of us would like to obtain these locos sans chassis in anticipation of Dave Bradwell one day finishing his B17 chassis kit! The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 That’s enough now, that kind of comment is a bloody disgrace and deserves no place on this forum... That is the second time lately that unnecessarily spiteful and damaging statements have been posted on this forum.Playing god on one's keyboard is becoming too fashionable it seems.Those who do so should remember that this is sometimes a double edged sword and can work against the perpetrator.Remember those who posted about the late Lord McAlpine on social media? I have asked for it to be either edited or removed altogether. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 I fully agree and the comment is alas what you get in social media. All the best to you, and Hornby! But not here Rob.We have forum rules and this goes contrary to them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2018 That’s enough now, that kind of comment is a bloody disgrace and deserves no place on this forum...I absolutely agree, and as you are a product developer, decisions on what to sell with what probably don’t cross your desk. But rubbishing companies and organisations about which we neither understand the internal workings nor the commercial imperatives has become a fashion - particularly when the firm concerned isn’t doing exactly what the writer would like. Please don’t take it personally. Plenty of us out here find your company’s products regularly have our wallet twitching. We need you. I am pleased to see Andy Y has removed the offensive line. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyG Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 You know what? At the end of the day LD is going to have to go back on his grand plan and sell these at a discount. Why ? Well no one wants them at their original price , so that’s the only way to shift them. He’s going to look pretty stupid with a warehouse stacked high, which presumably costs him money in storage charges (back to these high distribution costs), as the company runs out of working capital. Somethings got to give. Hopefully learning from past experience they will offer discounts to their retail customers to shift them The 71 was a poor choice of model to make . Even worse to bring out a second batch. There was never going to be a huge demand for an uninspiring box like loco restricted mainly to South East England . The Southern enthusiasts may be vocal looking for one, but in the wider market these are not particularly useful models. I suppose you could say the same of, for example, the Adams radial. That was an even more localised class, restricted to one short branch in BR days. They seem to have sold well however, and I bought three of the Oxford offerings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Some others added. Some reasonable prices such as an Adams Radial Tank and two coaches for about £150 which is better value than the current Lyme Regis pack which was over £200 when first released, and still £190 in Hattons. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2018 I'm thinking with the Great Model Railway challenge airing over the next few weeks this could actually be a clever move ? Several have posted that you would never put A with b and you can buy x y and z on ebay for half the price, But with the interest being shown by people in the show who have NEVER had anything to do with model railways and are looking for 'some train stuff' for little Jimmy for Christmas wouldn't these packs be what they are likely to buy ? A bit of clever bundling by the retailers could see some good sales. In today's market £300 odd quid as a main xmas present for a bundled set that stops little Jimmy going on about trains, is not a big deal for the people this is likely to attract. No It's maybe not for most on this forum, but its not aimed at us and could be a good way for Hornby to cash in on the show and shift what is effectively dead stock. Re spraying, new bodies etc would take time to organise and put into action with no guarantee of sales. Printing up a new outer box can probably be done fairly quickly and cheaply and as mentioned, if retailers find they aren't shifting them in the run up to Christmas then they can split them. Maybe a clever move and if it helps with cash flow and keeps Horby going then I'm all for it ! Why not get behind it and if you hear family or anyone else discussing the show etc, point them in the direction of the nearest retailer stocking these sets encouraging them to buy that special box set for little Jimmy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2018 Yes was thinking the timing of this could be good. Let’s face it Smokey Joe and a couple of trucks running round an oval probably won’t do much to assist in the conversion of folks to Model Railways but some of these train packs could . Nicely packaged. A bit more than your usual starter set . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2018 Despite all the "expert opinion" no one has posted the link to the Hornby page with all the packs on and the list of dealers who will get them: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/signature_and_sovereign 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2018 Despite all the "expert opinion" no one has posted the link to the Hornby page with all the packs on and the list of dealers who will get them: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/signature_and_sovereign It was on the thread now closed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 And some notable names missing from list of stockists - Rails, Hattons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Despite all the "expert opinion" no one has posted the link to the Hornby page with all the packs on and the list of dealers who will get them: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/signature_and_sovereign Probably because that page didn't exist when most of the posts were made. I found out about these from Kernow nearly two weeks ago.... Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) And some notable names missing from list of stockists - Rails, Hattons They'll pick up any surplus surplus no doubt...... Edited October 9, 2018 by woodenhead 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Despite all the "expert opinion" no one has posted the link to the Hornby page with all the packs on and the list of dealers who will get them: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/signature_and_sovereign All in good time...I've modified the OP now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Butler Henderson, on 09 Oct 2018 - 22:25, said:And some notable names missing from list of stockists - Rails, Hattons Edited October 10, 2018 by Free At Last Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted October 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2018 Hattons 2.JPG That's a pretty good deal, these coaches are individually around the £35 mark, so four for just over £100 ain't bad! cheers, Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted October 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2018 It was on the thread now closed Yes, sorry, I didnt realise this thread was about the same thing, and I was actually puzzled that no one had said anything about these offers! Much easier to spot now the title has been changed. That's a pretty good deal, these coaches are individually around the £35 mark, so four for just over £100 ain't bad! cheers, Keith Hattons isnt listed on the Hornby website as being a stockist of these sets. It will remain to be seen if they do get some in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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