Hornby 2019 announcements

[The Johnster]

On 06/03/2019 at 14:30, Steamport Southport said:

Rapido/Model Rail are already doing a 16XX.

 

I would expect a 15XX to appear from Bachmann at one point. They did a decent job of the very similar USA Tank and shares some parts with the 94XX. Just don't hold your breath waiting for one.

 

 

 

Jason

Which might make my hoped for 2721 the front runner!  Yay!

 

I won't be holding my breath for this either, Jason...

[Steamport Southport]

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 12:52, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Give them a break! Having finally broken their roughly 60 year duck in tooling any completely all-new 0-6-0T with the J50, they now have two more on the go in this year's announcement. And is it likely to be most profitable to go into thoroughly occupied territory? Forty years of the pannier available from Mainline, Replica and Bachmann just for starters.

 

You might need to knock twenty years off that.

 

The Jinty was a brand new model with a new chassis when it was released in 1978. The most recent new 0-6-0T was the GNR J52 from 1981. Between them you had the GWR 2721 and LBSC E2.

 

 

Jason

[D9020 Nimbus]

On 06/03/2019 at 12:52, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Give them a break! Having finally broken their roughly 60 year duck in tooling any completely all-new 0-6-0T with the J50, they now have two more on the go in this year's announcement. And is it likely to be most profitable to go into thoroughly occupied territory? Forty years of the pannier available from Mainline, Replica and Bachmann just for starters.

TWO more? Have I missed something or are you counting the Terrier as two—A1 and A1X?

[Steamport Southport]

B2 Peckett 0-6-0ST.

 

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/peckett-b2.html

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

You might need to knock twenty years off that.

No way. They all used the dreadful one size fits all wheelbase compromise that dates from the 1950s.

 

The J50 is the mould breaker, an 0-6-0T that Hornby tooled themselves with a correctly scaled wheelbase, no content from previous tooling.

[The Johnster]

But they are still knocking out J83s and 2721s with skirts beneath the boilers (and have just reintroduced Lord of the Isles with this endearing feature) and a generic Jinty chassis which is incorrect for the 2721 (not sure about J83).  One hopes that some thought is being given to a revamp of the early GW stuff which Hornby produce and nobody else does; modern standard 2721 and LOTI, shorty clerestories the correct length with the correct windows, on correct bogies, without the ends disfigured by roof clips (this is not the 1960s) and with interiors, and gangwayed clerestories with panelling so that they look reasonable in 1920s and 30s liveries.  I appreciate that GW/WR modellers have had good attention from Hornby in recent years, and I am delighted with the Collett suburbans, and that such projects are going to be well back in the queue, but it would be nice to think that some improvement could be looked forward to.

 

To be fair, LOTI and the shorties are being marketed as 'retro', and are not claimed to be up to modern standards.  But 2721, the J83, and the gangwayed clerestories do not have this excuse.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

No way. They all used the dreadful one size fits all wheelbase compromise that dates from the 1950s.

 

The J50 is the mould breaker, an 0-6-0T that Hornby tooled themselves with a correctly scaled wheelbase, no content from previous tooling.

 

But they were as good as most models available at the time. What was better apart from the Mainline 57XX and J72? Certainly not the Lima models.

 

You did state they haven't made a new 0-6-0T for sixty years, that just isn't true. They were brand new models. I can guarantee their isn't any Hornby Dublo or Triang parts in a 1978 Jinty. 

 

 

Jason

[Willie Whizz]

On 06/03/2019 at 14:12, The Johnster said:

 

We live in hope.  Actually, I live in inner city Cardiff, which is a sort of denial of hope...

 

 

I used to live in Hope.  It's a small town in Derbyshire ...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

...You did state they haven't made a new 0-6-0T for sixty years, that just isn't true. They were brand new models. I can guarantee their isn't any Hornby Dublo or Triang parts in a 1978 Jinty...

But still containing content from their 1950s compromise one size fits all chassis. That's not all new design, they started from a template of past - flawed - practise, rather than the prototype. And then altered the bodies to fit. (I don't recall now whether the strange choice of 7'9"+8'3" can actually be found under any UK 0-6-0.)

 

Mainline and Airfix GMR were showing the way in their roughly contemporary tank engine introductions, all of the 14xx, 56xx, 57xx, 61xx, J72 and N2, had purpose designed correctly dimensioned mechanisms.

[Francis deWeck]

11 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

I used to live in Hope.  It's a small town in Derbyshire ...

And die in Buxton, I think completes the saying

[Flyingscotsmanfan]

4 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

But still containing content from their 1950s compromise one size fits all chassis. That's not all new design, they started from a template of past - flawed - practise, rather than the prototype. And then altered the bodies to fit. (I don't recall now whether the strange choice of 7'9"+8'3" can actually be found under any UK 0-6-0.)

 

Mainline and Airfix GMR were showing the way in their roughly contemporary tank engine introductions, all of the 14xx, 56xx, 57xx, 61xx, J72 and N2, had purpose designed correctly dimensioned mechanisms.

Perhaps it would be better to say that the J50 was the first true scale 0-6-0T produced by Hornby in 60 years? 

[brushman47544]

24 minutes ago, Flyingscotsmanfan said:

Perhaps it would be better to say that the J50 was the first true scale 0-6-0T produced by Hornby in 60 years? 

 

in OO???

 

Hat, coat...

[The Johnster]

Or to say that the J50 is the first true scale (we'll ignore the 16/18/18.85mm debate for now) produced by Hornby; the original Jinty did not have the correct wheel spacing for a Jinty.  I think this was so that Princess Elizabeth's coupling rods could be used, certainly the reason for the anomalous chassis on the 3MT tank.  The Jinty chassis then found it's way beneath every other Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby 0-6-0 for years; I don't think they broke away from this with an in-house design until they produced a scale 08 or maybe the J94.

[D9020 Nimbus]

The J94 was designed by Dapol, back in the 1980s, not by Hornby...

[Steamport Southport]

Yes. But the statement was they haven't made a new 0-6-0T for sixty years. Not whether it was a finescale model.

 

There was nothing in the 1970s Jinty that was from HD or Triang, it was a totally new chassis. No motor in the cab for starters. The 08 even had a counter balance for uncoupling installed at the rear. 

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

18 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yes. But the statement was they haven't made a new 0-6-0T for sixty years.

Surprise, definitions vary. Mine encompasses a 'clean sheet' design, your's obviously doesn't.

 

Ask yourself this though. If those Hornby 0-6-0T models you identify tooled in the late 70's were all new, then why on earth were the inaccuracies perpetuated?

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yes. But the statement was they haven't made a new 0-6-0T for sixty years. Not whether it was a finescale model.

 

There was nothing in the 1970s Jinty that was from HD or Triang, it was a totally new chassis. No motor in the cab for starters. The 08 even had a counter balance for uncoupling installed at the rear. 

 

 

Jason

Sorry Jason, the 1970s Jinty perpetuated the original R52 incorrect axle spacing, albeit on a redesigned chassis and with a newly tooled body. It owed it’s incorrect chassis directly to the original Triang Jinty’s original mistakes which were perpetuated.  

 

This ‘new’ chassis was incorrect for every loco it was ever put under; 8750 (which didn’t even have a nod to fishbelly coupling rods), diesel shunter, J83, 2721, E2, and the Jinty!  Meanwhile, Mainline managed to get the 57xx right!

 

Hornby still do not make a Jinty with correctly spaced axles.  And I refuse to call that thing an 08...

Edited March 12, 2019 by The Johnster

[chuffinghell]

What do you say King of Swamp Castle

[89A]

Class 66 special liveries have arrived according to Hornby web site,

[Steamport Southport]

On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 20:52, The Johnster said:

Sorry Jason, the 1970s Jinty perpetuated the original R52 incorrect axle spacing, albeit on a redesigned chassis and with a newly tooled body. It owed it’s incorrect chassis directly to the original Triang Jinty’s original mistakes which were perpetuated.  

 

This ‘new’ chassis was incorrect for every loco it was ever put under; 8750 (which didn’t even have a nod to fishbelly coupling rods), diesel shunter, J83, 2721, E2, and the Jinty!  Meanwhile, Mainline managed to get the 57xx right!

 

Hornby still do not make a Jinty with correctly spaced axles.  And I refuse to call that thing an 08...

 

It might be slightly out. But so was nearly everything else in the catalogue. You are talking  a couple of inches on the real thing. Find me a kit from the era that was more accurate. There weren't many and most were much further out.

 

Most of the locomotives still had skirts under the boilers. But are they classed as being more accurate as the wheel base was correct?

 

Some people really are being pedantic for the sake of it.

 

08 really? This thing has been in the catalogue for years. might need a retool though seeing as it may be a bit out somewhere....

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/250805/Hornby_R3504TTS_Class_08_08623_in_DB_Schenker_livery_TTS_Sound_fitted/StockDetail.aspx

 

But the previous incarnation was not bad apart from the chassis.

 

 

Jason

Edited March 16, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[The Johnster]

Not that 08; that's a perfectly acceptable representation of the standard BR 350hp shunting engine as built from 1954 onwards.  I mean the 'previous incarnation', which is no longer in the catalogue but still, after some 60 years, being churned out in a 'Battle Group' or something trainset.  It is awful; I knew this having seen real 350hp shunting engines on Cardiff Docks in 1958 when I was 6 years old; the cab roof is seriously misshaped and as for the chassis, the whole thing seems pointless as no 350hp shunting engine, 08 or the various grouping designs that preceded it, even the ones with inside frames and longer wheelbases, ever ran on top of anything resembling it.  It was, and is, a hopelessly poor representation of what it purported to represent.

 

It was a bit annoying even at the time, and even to a 6 year old with an imperfectly developed sense of scale appearance, as the Jinty which provided the chassis for it was a half tidy model by the RTR standards of the day, by no means perfect especially below the footplate but at least paying some respect to scale dimensions and appearance.  The Triang Jinty was a groundbreaker when it first appeared, and easily the most accurate model (not that that was claiming much) in the Triang or Hornby Dublo ranges.  What was the point of besmirching that claim with the diesel shunter?

 

I was, child or not, fully aware of the shortcomings of Princess Elizabeth, HD's A4 and Duchesses, and the risible coaches those companies were foisting on us in those days, not to mention the 13 inch radius curves we ran them on.  But it was a few years before I was able to have a go at improving things myself, with the aid of Airfix or Kitmaster, and by that time some slightly better RTR was becoming available.  I was also starting to avail myself of Peco track by this time.

 

Triang knew their market better than 6 year old me of course, and the model has consistently made money for them over many decades, even after the better 'scale' 08 was released (one assumes, or what was the point?).  Cheap and cheerful, a single plastic moulding with no interior detail, quick, easy, and cheap to design and produce, it is one of the longest lasting RTR toolings.  But I will persist in refusing to describe it as an 08 or any representation of a 350hp diesel shunting engine ever in service in the UK!

 

Hornby Dublo counter attacked shortly afterwards with a much better 350 hp shunting engine; outside frames, correct wheelbase, and superb performance at the cost of a cab full of motor.  Lima had a go with a similar model years later, which wasn't too bad so long as it was kept scrupulously clean and driven gently; the main problem with it was far too high a final drive ratio.  Modern iterations are proper scale models, and I have no issue whatever with them; I may even buy one for Cwmdimbath one day!

Edited March 16, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

5 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Not that 08; that's a perfectly acceptable representation of the standard BR 350hp shunting engine as built from 1954 onwards.  I mean the 'previous incarnation', which is no longer in the catalogue but still, after some 60 years, being churned out in a 'Battle Group' or something trainset.  It is awful; I knew this having seen real 350hp shunting engines on Cardiff Docks in 1958 when I was 6 years old; the cab roof is seriously misshaped and as for the chassis, the whole thing seems pointless as no 350hp shunting engine, 08 or the various grouping designs that preceded it, even the ones with inside frames and longer wheelbases, ever ran on top of anything resembling it.  It was, and is, a hopelessly poor representation of what it purported to represent.

 

It was a bit annoying even at the time, and even to a 6 year old with an imperfectly developed sense of scale appearance, as the Jinty which provided the chassis for it was a half tidy model by the RTR standards of the day, by no means perfect especially below the footplate but at least paying some respect to scale dimensions and appearance.  The Triang Jinty was a groundbreaker when it first appeared, and easily the most accurate model (not that that was claiming much) in the Triang or Hornby Dublo ranges.  What was the point of besmirching that claim with the diesel shunter?

 

I was, child or not, fully aware of the shortcomings of Princess Elizabeth, HD's A4 and Duchesses, and the risible coaches those companies were foisting on us in those days, not to mention the 13 inch radius curves we ran them on.  We didn't even have track that looked like any track I'd ever seen.  But it was a few years before I was able to have a go at improving things myself, with the aid of Airfix or Kitmaster, and by that time some slightly better RTR was becoming available.  I was also starting to avail myself of Peco track by this time.

 

Triang knew their market better than 6 year old me of course, and the model has consistently made money for them over many decades, even after the better 'scale' 08 was released (one assumes, or what was the point?).  Cheap and cheerful, a single plastic moulding with no interior detail, quick, easy, and cheap to design and produce, it is one of the longest lasting RTR toolings.  But I will persist in refusing to describe it as an 08 or any representation of a 350hp diesel shunting engine ever in service in the UK!

 

Hornby Dublo counter attacked shortly afterwards with a much better 350 hp shunting engine; outside frames, correct wheelbase, and superb performance at the cost of a cab full of motor.  Lima had a go with a similar model years later, which wasn't too bad so long as it was kept scrupulously clean and driven gently; the main problem with it was far too high a final drive ratio.  Modern iterations are proper scale models, and I have no issue whatever with them; I may even buy one for Cwmdimbath one day!

 

[bigherb]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Not that 08; that's a perfectly acceptable representation of the standard BR 350hp shunting engine as built from 1954 onwards.  I mean the 'previous incarnation', which is no longer in the catalogue but still, after some 60 years,

 

Not quite, the railroad 08 body is not the same as the old Triang version it was retooled with a different cab and separate ladders. The Triang version was modified for the Thomas range.

[Hroth]

Just got an email from Hornby announcing the 2019 Christmas Train.

 

It's the Cola one, at 80 squid...

[ruggedpeak]