Tomsontour Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I've got to admit I'm fairly baffled, dave please just concentrate on the models you are currently doing, I want my king before I bloody retire 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, sorabain said: "This IP covers the external design and look". I can't understand this when you're modelling something that exists.. how can you claim ownership on that as IP? Maybe if you have some clever widgit how how to model a raising pantograph whilst being an accurate model, or some kind of new fancy motor... but appearance? boggle Wouldnt the designer of the full size loco own any copyright to the design? 8 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widnes Model Centre Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 So is this an IP Address rather than an annoucement? 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, meatloaf said: Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. So is he going to sue accurascale over the class 92? Or Hornby over the 14xx and austerity tank? It’s one way of generating income. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Will the lawyers fees for all this be crowdfunded as well? My second thought. Even assuming this is practical, and I'd need a bit more detail so reserve judgement, you would need to be willing to take any infringement to court and that isn't going to be cheap. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2019 I'm tempted to say that DJM have jumped the Shark. Only he hasn't delivered it yet. 2 1 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorabain Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Just now, meatloaf said: Wouldnt the designer of the full size loco own any copyright to the design? Exactly, or the owners of the livery etc. Are all DJM models now going to be in some non-prototypical special livery so that they cannot be copied, but noone actually wants them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cape Town Trev Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 What does Deborah Meaden of Dragon’s Den say? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Markwj said: I am proper confused does this mean that no one can reproduce his designs or as he seems to think no one can reproduce a model he is producing? He suggests the latter. In reality, it's closer to the former. Neither will work. Glad I'm not crowd funding this. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 How to win friends and influence people ...... Im not really sure what he is trying to say there (or rather I am sure but don't want to believe it) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Markwj said: I am proper confused does this mean that no one can reproduce his designs or as he seems to think no one can reproduce a model he is producing? My reading, by registering the CAD work for a model in a given scale DJM believes that any other companies attempting to create a model of the same prototype in that scale will infringe on the registered CAD, thus he can prevent anyone from competing with him. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 If his models were the best there is then it would be less of a problem but as there are better model developers now on the market, I fear that DJM may well have cast the first nail in the hobby coffin. his move will certainly not see me increase my ownership of models from his stable my friend is an IP lawyer so I’ll send him the PDF and ask his opinion 5 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) According to the Intellectual Property Office, this is how you can protect your property: https://www.gov.uk/intellectual-property-an-overview/protect-your-intellectual-property I don't see how what Dave is proposing fits into any of these categories. It certainly doesn't seem to fit the category of 'design right' that he is suggesting. Edited May 1, 2019 by lyneux 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, mdvle said: My reading, by registering the CAD work for a model in a given scale DJM believes that any other companies attempting to create a model of the same prototype in that scale will infringe on the registered CAD, thus he can prevent anyone from competing with him. That's how I see it, but then I take one look at an Accurascale CAD/Computer representation of a model and go oh wow, so Dave will have to really up his game to make CADs better than they do. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, black and decker boy said: If his models were the best there is then it would be less of a problem but as there are better model developers now on the market, I fear that DJM may well have cast the first nail in the hobby coffin. I agree with you about the nail in the coffin, but not the hobby. 3 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorabain Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Anyone know what "kind" of IP this is? Not a lawyer but googling around seems like "IP" is just a blanket term that covers specifics such as patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret etc. What has been submitted? are there patents on something, or just copyright on some particular CAD which will presumably not protect much when other companies' implementations will differ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, tractionman said: https://djmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/DJM-release-010519.pdf I really want to be positive about DJM, I really do... But as far as I can understand this rambling newsletter. What he is actually doing is legally reserving the right to patent the promise of doing a model to prevent anyone else from ACTUALLY doing a model. This is to my mind a enormous step backwards for the industry. If i thought that it was serious I would been even more angry. But as I suspect that the first time he tries to sue somebody for releasing a model in the shops after he has suddenly announced his pipe dream of doing so, they only produce a single email dated from before his grand announcement along the lines of " Here are the plans for XXXXX", and he thereby loses his case and goes bust. 4 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) This announcement puts me in mind of the patent troll companies that are a blight on other fields of industry. I feel very disinclined to do any business with a company that wishes to do something that seems to me to be so negative. I am now minded to cancel expressions of interest that I have for supposedly forthcoming products from DJ models. Edited May 1, 2019 by Kris Grammer 5 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2019 Intellectual property (IP) is something unique that a person physically creates. So would he have to prove the new cad is a copy of his rather than one produced by someone else? I did love the comment in the first bit about a persons word being his bond! So when was my class 92 due Dave? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 If this means no other manufacturers can make gear driven steam locos, then that is a good thing! Otherwise, the 14xx is a good case in point. The old Airfix tooling existed, and resembles a 14xx, so that can never be updated from anyone other than the IP owners of that model (if they had registered it)? I can see why he has gone down this route, but can't see it working out as he intends... 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) Well none of us predicted this, but... I actually have some sympathy with Dave in this, and understand why he’s done it. He’s protecting his work. That said i’m Not convinced that this is as rock solid as he may think, but it would cover what he needs.. think about it, we’ve seen the stories on the n class 17, and the stories of the toolings in China.. basically we won’t see those in the UK market under another name. The industry has seen this before, in Replica vs Dapol in 1989 and the use of Mainline tooling. also just this week.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-48106487 Edited May 1, 2019 by adb968008 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) So this appears to be his listing (if the link works): https://www.registered-design.service.gov.uk/find/mibc2je9/92393612/designsbyowner That lists the 1361, 14xx, 02, D600, Class 92, Class 71, J94 in OO and the Class 92 in N. Note that he is registering them as a "registered design" category Edited May 1, 2019 by mdvle 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Designs are here... https://www.registered-design.service.gov.uk/find/mibc2je9/92393612/designsbyowner 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Vistisen said: I really want to be positive about DJM, I really do... But as far as I can understand this rambling newsletter. What he is actually doing is legally reserving the right to patent the promise of doing a model to prevent anyone else from ACTUALLY doing a model. This is to my mind a enormous step backwards for the industry. If i thought that it was serious I would been even more angry. But as I suspect that the first time he tries to sue somebody for releasing a model in the shops after he has suddenly announced his pipe dream of doing so, they only produce a single email dated from before his grand announcement along the lines of " Here are the plans for XXXXX", and he thereby loses his case and goes bust. He makes it sound like he has been busy... To quote 'Currently, I also have 14 more CAD/CAM designs going through the IP stage for models announced and yet-to-be-announced in OO and N gauge, including the OO gauge APT and N gauge ‘King’, along with some more items in a few months.' What about the APT and the 92 that you've supposed to have been working on. It's like he's been spending the time preparing CADs for a HAHA moment today. So cynical. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob Reid Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, black and decker boy said: If his models were the best there is then it would be less of a problem but as there are better model developers now on the market, I fear that DJM may well have cast the first nail in the hobby coffin. his move will certainly not see me increase my ownership of models from his stable my friend is an IP lawyer so I’ll send him the PDF and ask his opinion B&D - I'm certain your friend will come back with it as being a piece of nonsense and all down to his interpretation of what he thinks he's getting. As the detailed "look" of a specific vehicle pre-exists , they are not his to slap IP on. If I am wrong, and I could be, I'd fear he'll have just nailed his own coffin shut. If he attempts to close all these doors to the other manufacturers, then he will no time to produce anything - most of his time could be spent in court whilst he tries to protect his IP. I can imagine what Hornby / Bachmann / Dapol will make of this. Just what makes hm think that doing this (closing off any competition) its good for the industry? Bob. 3 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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