Class 37, by Accurascale

[Awes0mesauce]

13 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Awes0mesauce,

 

The livery on 609 took two attempts to get right and was indeed the most tricky of the lot to do. We're very proud of that one, as was the factory!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

indeed - was my pride and joy 37609 - the reproduction was fantastic. Sadly mine went missing at a club Family open day a few weeks back.

 

As everywhere is now depleted, will hopefully pick up another when the market settles down.

 

Even more frustrating is, I helped a lot of that clubs members secure units during the drops.

 

needless to say I am no longer a part of that club - however not all is lost as I have now discovered SMRS who are a fantastic bunch and made me very welcome indeed.

[NHY 581]

11 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Your right, not like the other manufactures 55's,92,37's, now at 91% motor issue with these over 42 models via my local.

 

Have decided to go with Bach for my b/blue37 and renumber, and will cancel my pre-order for a 31 and 37 from the other maker.

 

A question, how easy would it be to convert the Baccy domino to a numerical one using Accra 55 leftover ones, the only good thing about the 55, ease of change of head code?

 

The above appeared in the Bachmann 37 thread and is quoted here for context.

 

My reply is quoted below. 

 

6 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Mindful of the fact that not every purchaser of Accurascale locos is a contributing member of Rmweb, what we see on here is a  small percentage of overall sales therefore a small percentage issues.

But, I have to cast doubt on those figures you quote. Working at an Accurascale stockist, we have sold similar, if not more 92s and 37s and have not had one returned by a customer for any issue, let alone a motor issue. This includes instore as well as those sent mail order.  Neither have we had cause to return one to Accurascale  for an issue discovered pre sale, i.e testing prior to concluding a ssale.Therefore, it's fair to conclude that overtime these locos remain as sold and have not developed any issues. 

 

In addition, given our relationship with our customers, if there had been any issues or returns direct to Accurascale, I'm pretty confident we'd be aware of this as it would soon filter through. 

 

So, based on the above personal experience I have to say  those figures have to be viewed as incorrect. If they weren't we'd see far more comment than we have done regarding motor issues and, given their engagement and transparency, no doubt there would be comment from Accurascale themselves. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[LMSfan72]

7 hours ago, Awes0mesauce said:

Out of interest why was this not directed to Accurascale Support? Surely thats a warranty issue which they will address?

 

apart from the expense saved on replacing a motor under warranty for your colleague, they are kind of doing other fellow modellers a bit of a dis-service too - why? Well, you stop Accurascale from fully understanding their failure rates, which in turn means they cannot look to better their product.

 

Judge a company not by said mistakes, but how they deal with them and improve moving forwards.

 

if there is a motor problem, i’d rather find out before its used in more of their products as a customer. I can also assure you, from a cost perspective and brand reputation basis, that Accurascale do too.

I think that also comes down to how the consumer got hold of it. There is no warranty path for second hand product.

[Awes0mesauce]

6 minutes ago, LMSfan72 said:

I think that also comes down to how the consumer got hold of it. There is no warranty path for second hand product.

Even that is not strictly true though.

 

I have read Accurascale have even helped with that as well, as long as they had the invoice / order number and was ordered from them directly.
 

I’m just a firm believer in letting companies try and put things right before the witch hunt starts.

 

everything, especially electronics has an “expected” or “acceptable” failure rate. Depending on the product its anywhere between 0-10% commonly, but when you get into stuff like Semiconductors and CPUs and GPUs the yield rate can be as low as 50%.

 

Helping Accurascale collect that data is really helpful, from a company perspective and a consumer one.

 

 

 

[spamcan61]

7 minutes ago, Awes0mesauce said:

 

 

everything, especially electronics has an “expected” or “acceptable” failure rate. Depending on the product its anywhere between 0-10% commonly, but when you get into stuff like Semiconductors and CPUs and GPUs the yield rate can be as low as 50%.

 

Helping Accurascale collect that data is really helpful, from a company perspective and a consumer one.

 

 

 

Eh? there's a difference between production yield and field failure rate. Any CPU manufacturer with a 50% field failure rate wouldn't be in business long.

 

I don't doubt AS will be trying to workout out if it's ones that have been working hard that's are failing, or is it a random  5% etc. A tricky job at the best of times.

[Awes0mesauce]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Eh? there's a difference between production yield and field failure rate. Any CPU manufacturer with a 50% field failure rate wouldn't be in business long.

 

I don't doubt AS will be trying to workout out if it's ones that have been working hard that's are failing, or is it a random  5% etc. A tricky job at the best of times.

I was just referencing it as an example of failure rates as a general rule - was not comparing apples for apples with model railways. Just that there are acceptable limits.

 

Just mentioned Semiconductors and wafers as most don’t know the failure rate so always surprises peeps so apologies.

 

TSMCs and Samsungs rate of the latest generation Nvidia cards I believe it was had a yield of around 50%. They’ve got it substantially higher now I believe.

 

And nvidia are doing well. Its the consumers wallets that weren’t.

 

but yes, 5% i expect is the figure here in Accurascale terms.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Awes0mesauce

[Awes0mesauce]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Eh? there's a difference between production yield and field failure rate. Any CPU manufacturer with a 50% field failure rate wouldn't be in business long.

 

I don't doubt AS will be trying to workout out if it's ones that have been working hard that's are failing, or is it a random  5% etc. A tricky job at the best of times.

I think Richard mentioned this, expect @Accurascale Fran will confirm, but as well as the exposure and good cause, it was a big benefit of the Making Tracks 3 collab - running their stock constantly gave them a controlled pool of testing. The Mileage they must of racked up, pulling heavy loads, over a short period would of flagged weaknesses.

 

However, they were also very well maintained throughout the duration, which you cannot count on the average consumer to do.

 

But it gives them the best case, if maintained properly, the longevity of components under high load.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Awes0mesauce

[ColinB]

One thing I am immensely grateful for with this model was the introduction of decent "stay alive" and how it should work. I have used other types of "stay alive" and found that they are a pain when trying to read back DCC data in programming mode, Accurascale showed how to do it properly. So armed with the knowledge that it can be implemented properly I searched out manufactures that supplied units that do work properly. Surprisingly, I found the LaisDCC units to be perfect (thanks Digitrains for the advice).

[adb968008]

Well i’m happy with my 37’s.

 

Ive a zero fail rate in my Accurascale fleet, and thats >30 locos at this point across the range (37/55/92), they are all solid performers right out of the box. Ive never had to return an Accurascale loco.

 

At some point I will be building a new eco house made from Accurascale boxes at this rate.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by adb968008

[TravisM]

Recently purchased a non DCC/Sound 37609 and went to order a sound decoder for it, but a little confused as I maybe missing something here.  When the 37/6's were originally refurbished to be used by EPS, do they need the 'refurbished' sound decoder, or 'original' decoder as I thought the 'refurbished' sound chip referred to just the 37/4's.  Any pointing me in the right direction would be most grateful.

[Cliff - Exeter TMD]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Well i’m happy with my 37’s.

 

Ive a zero fail rate in my Accurascale fleet, and thats >30 locos at this point across the range (37/55/92), they are all solid performers right out of the box. Ive never had to return an Accurascale loco.

 

At some point I will be building a new eco house made from Accurascale boxes at this rate.

 

 

If all of your Accurascale 37's have ran for a continuous 2 hours (1 hour in each direction) then you are very lucky! If they haven't then I would not be so confident!

 

My normal running in procedure is 1 hour in each direction.

 

I have 8 and out of the eight 3 failed between 90 and 120 minutes worth of running. The other 5 are great. I know several other peoples who failed at around the same running duration. If you have an end to end layout or just do the odd 5 and 10 minutes worth of running here and there, then if there is a fault it will take a lot longer to materialise.

 

I know exactly what the problem is with the motors and I supplied Accurascale with information and photographs months ago. I still have 2 locos sat here waiting for new motors. I purchased them about 4 months ago, ran a couple of hours and failed. For 4 months they have taken on the role of expensive paperweights!

[adb968008]

46 minutes ago, Cliff - Exeter TMD said:

If all of your Accurascale 37's have ran for a continuous 2 hours (1 hour in each direction) then you are very lucky! If they haven't then I would not be so confident!

 

My normal running in procedure is 1 hour in each direction.

 

I have 8 and out of the eight 3 failed between 90 and 120 minutes worth of running. The other 5 are great. I know several other peoples who failed at around the same running duration. If you have an end to end layout or just do the odd 5 and 10 minutes worth of running here and there, then if there is a fault it will take a lot longer to materialise.

 

I know exactly what the problem is with the motors and I supplied Accurascale with information and photographs months ago. I still have 2 locos sat here waiting for new motors. I purchased them about 4 months ago, ran a couple of hours and failed. For 4 months they have taken on the role of expensive paperweights!

Have you had any issues with Dapols 73 or Hornby class 87 ?

 

If you take a look at the Hattons 66 thread, you may see ive been overtly familiar with these motors for a few years, indeed ive probably handled and repaired more of them, than anyone else in the non commercial wilds at this point, >60 of them, and openly shared my work, and repaired many for other people.

 

So I remain confident in my purchases from Accurascale, beyond morbid curiosity, Ive had no reason to dissect them, fix the brushes etc. Mine are all good…

 

as for my layout…. Well it it survives my layout i’m very confident it will survive anyones… 4 levels, 28 inch height from top to bottom including a ridiculous 1 in 4 … , every type of track known to man, plus a few that arent.. i’m no artist but I am technical… 1st radius, set track, bad joints you name it i’m proud of it… its the best test there is…ive even a dynanometer car to record gradient, voltage, speed and rigged with a digitial suitcase scale for drawbar pull, its a 20m diameter over 4 circles, and 1 “8” shape loop giving a distance of 80m for a full circuit…all manually operated, of course, keeps me fit when I try it… all on DC only.

 

 

 

Am I lucky, or perhaps just one of the silent majority ?

Apologies for your issues, but thats what warranty is for, and Ive never seen anyone complain about that.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by adb968008

[Cliff - Exeter TMD]

23 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Have you had any issues with Dapols 73 or Hornby class 87 ?

 

If you take a look at the Hattons 66 thread, you may see ive been overtly familiar with these motors for a few years, indeed ive probably handled and repaired more of them, than anyone else in the non commercial wilds at this point, >60 of them, and openly shared my work, and repaired many for other people.

 

So I remain confident in my purchases from Accurascale, beyond morbid curiosity, Ive had no reason to dissect them, fix the brushes etc. Mine are all good…

 

as for my layout…. Well it it survives my layout i’m very confident it will survive anyones… 4 levels, 28 inch height from top to bottom including a ridiculous 1 in 4 … , every type of track known to man, plus a few that arent.. i’m no artist but I am technical… 1st radius, set track, bad joints you name it i’m proud of it… its the best test there is…ive even a dynanometer car to record gradient, voltage, speed and rigged with a digitial suitcase scale for drawbar pull.

 

 

 

Am I lucky, or perhaps just one of the silent majority ?

Apologies for your issues, but thats what warranty is for, and Ive never seen anyone complain about that.

 

 

 

I must be in the silent majority with my 87's, 73's and Hattons 66 as i have not had a single problem with any of them!

 

Like I said, it is to do with continuous running (which you have not confirmed if any of your locos have done around 2 hours worth of continuous running). It is noting to do with gradients, trackwork etc.

 

Just because you don't have an issue, does not mean somebody else does! I have 5 that run perfect.

 

And regarding warranty, Accurascale were notified 4 months ago and i am patiently waiting for the replacement motors. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Cliff - Exeter TMD
spelling error

[derekdoestrains]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Ive had no reason to dissect them, fix the brushes etc. Mine are all good

then your one of the lucky people? I totally get it’s not a majority issue, nobody has said it is… but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an issue, which may become a further issue in the future?

 

If accurascale are struggling to get motors, which as someone else has illuded is the case (or they don’t care - which I very much doubt is the case for the record, they’re support team is good as gold!), perhaps this highlights it’s more of an issue then people realise?

I know 3 other people who have had 37’s, and 3 of them have had one or more issues, magically fixed by a new motor?  Tell me that’s coincidence… that’s two people who run them round extensive layouts and had issues with an hour or two… just for clarity I’ve also run a few of my 37/ on the same layout and had no issues, so before someone jumps on the “must be the track etc” that clearly isn’t the case… 

[adb968008]

32 minutes ago, Cliff - Exeter TMD said:

I must be in the silent majority with my 87's, 73's and Hattons 66 as i have not had a single problem with any of them!

obviously ive no insight to the workings of any manufacturer, but my own research, As far as I can tell, size, shape, rpm, current, voltage, weight even the case colour, they are the same to me, as well as in A/S’s 37/55/92.

 

Hattons 66’s seem to have been a bad batch in some liveries, but ive not seen issues replicated elsewhere.

 

Thats why I brought it up.

obviously warranty comes first, but once out of warranty you still have options as to where to buy a replacement…

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002670420818.html
 

just swap your flywheel and bearing cup.

 

(The flywheel shown on their site is the same as on the current Dapol 73, but doesnt affect operation should you fit it in something else, and a pair of brass flywheels for an extra 93p is a bargain to have in your spares box imo).

 

This same motor will sit happily in Heljans type2’s well, although its of a different spec. Ive replaced one in a Hornby HST too.

 

if you have had enough of it and want a change Mehano and Piko offer a motor of same size that will fit too. i even reckon you could fit a Bachmann 66 motor in if you remove the plastic cradle..too.. look see..

 

Top to bottom: Bachmann 66, Mehano and Lais DCC

 

So your not without options…

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by adb968008

[maico]

Lais make quite a few of the motors in our models. They also have a history of bad batches of motors unfortunately, although perhaps not surprising given the lowish price.

 

https://laisdcc.com/LaisDcc_Motor_Catalog.pdf

[PJ10]

Hi adb968008

 

Thanks for the information above. I've also just read your posts in the Hattons 66 thread about repairing the motor. Very useful and something I'll file for future reference should it be required when my Accurascale locos are out of warranty. The brush arrangement shown in the 66 thread does seem particularly poor. Fingers crossed the Accurascale team are looking for a better motor solution as without proper springing to keep the brushes pressing against the commutator, I can see problems arising when the brushes begin to wear down.

 

PJ10  

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Recently purchased a non DCC/Sound 37609 and went to order a sound decoder for it, but a little confused as I maybe missing something here.  When the 37/6's were originally refurbished to be used by EPS, do they need the 'refurbished' sound decoder, or 'original' decoder as I thought the 'refurbished' sound chip referred to just the 37/4's.  Any pointing me in the right direction would be most grateful.

 

Yes Jools.  The 37/6 variant for EPS was created from already refurbed 37s, which were 37/5 prior to EPS modification.  You will also note that both kinds of 37/5 were used - ex split headcode and ex centre headcode types. Your example of 37609 which was originally outshopped from EE as split headcode D6815, and becomig TOPS 37115.  After HGR refurb at Crewe it became 37514, and was later modified into 37609.  This means the traditional method of starting the engine by "motoring" the traction generator, was replaced by starter motors.  

[PieGuyRob]

5 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Recently purchased a non DCC/Sound 37609 and went to order a sound decoder for it, but a little confused as I maybe missing something here.  When the 37/6's were originally refurbished to be used by EPS, do they need the 'refurbished' sound decoder, or 'original' decoder as I thought the 'refurbished' sound chip referred to just the 37/4's.  Any pointing me in the right direction would be most grateful.

I thought the 37?4's were identical to the 37/5's (which the EPS 37/6's were sourced from). The only difference with the 37/4's is they were fitted with an electric train supply. I may be wrong.......

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, PieGuyRob said:

I thought the 37?4's were identical to the 37/5's (which the EPS 37/6's were sourced from). The only difference with the 37/4's is they were fitted with an electric train supply. I may be wrong.......

The main difference being most of the 37/5 (with the exception of some of the flush ended locos) had a single piece grill on the nose side at either one or both ends rather than the 2 piece grill on the 37/4.  

[TerryBewdley]

Is there a video of how to fit the larger snow plough?

 

[Awes0mesauce]

55 minutes ago, TerryBewdley said:

Is there a video of how to fit the larger snow plough?

 

I don’t think so, but it is fairly simple. The side ploughs on the sides fit into the holes. They fit quite loose initially so make you test fit dry first - get familar with it. I use glue and glaze for the longer drying time, but you may prefer super glue - but its risky if they move.

 

front middle one fits in the front groove. You may need to move the hoses about, but again - tiny bit of glue. - i started with the middle one for the alignment of the left and right ones to gauge their positions.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Awes0mesauce

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

I thought the 37?4's were identical to the 37/5's (which the EPS 37/6's were sourced from). The only difference with the 37/4's is they were fitted with an electric train supply. I may be wrong.......

 

3 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

The main difference being most of the 37/5 (with the exception of some of the flush ended locos) had a single piece grill on the nose side at either one or both ends rather than the 2 piece grill on the 37/4.  

Yes.  All refurb 37s had their nose grilles changed to be a uniform shape on all four ends, but I believe these varied between styles. I recall Graham Shaw of Shawplan telling me the differences with the strengthening bars etc.

 

Another difference on the refurb 37s was the plating over of an engineroom window on some examples, predominantly the "heavyweights", but as "Jools" asked, the 37/6s were developed from the refurb 37/5s.

 

And while we are on this subject the new owner of 37606 has removed the wipac lighting from the nose ends and has reinstalled the "refurbished" or flush lighting arrangement of the loco as well as painting in red stripe railfreight colours with it's post refurb number of 37508. There is a rather appealing image of it as 37508 on Railway Herald

[richierich]

21 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Recently purchased a non DCC/Sound 37609 and went to order a sound decoder for it, but a little confused as I maybe missing something here.  When the 37/6's were originally refurbished to be used by EPS, do they need the 'refurbished' sound decoder, or 'original' decoder as I thought the 'refurbished' sound chip referred to just the 37/4's.  Any pointing me in the right direction would be most grateful.

Refurbished.  
 

37/6 are based on the 37/5. At refurbishment the engines received starter motors, because the main generator was replaced with an alternator.
 

On unrefurbished 37’s the main generator acts as a starter motor for the engine. 

[45125]

16 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

The main difference being most of the 37/5 (with the exception of some of the flush ended locos) had a single piece grill on the nose side at either one or both ends rather than the 2 piece grill on the 37/4.  

The nose grills are two piece hinged units, not a single unit.  37/4 have some very subtle differences to all the other differences to the other refurbs, they load up differently, and like all locos it depends on who set the max load min speed setting up.