Model Rail Magazine Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2T in 009

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

There were specific instructions that 'Corporate' Blue Grey & other branding was NOT to be applied to Steam Loco's

 

The VofR somehow missed that 

 

A great part of the appeal of the VoR in the 1970s, at least to young me, was that it was very visibly part of the "big" railway.

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A great part of the appeal of the VoR in the 1970s, at least to young me, was that it was very visibly part of the "big" railway.

 

That'll be the ''big'' railway that had had all individuality and character obliterated with blue and yellow paint?

 

What's not to like?

 

CJI.

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

That'll be the ''big'' railway that had had all individuality and character obliterated with blue and yellow paint?

 

It's what I knew. Riding in the seat behind the driver in a DMU between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton was the height of delight for an eight-year-old. 

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, John Besley said:

makes you wonder what it some mainline locos went into BR Blue and steam lasted into the early 80's.

 

Not too dissimilar to the ones they tried in the 50s? Just to give @cctransuk a bad night's kip I'd say Blue Fives would have been alright. No yellow smokebox though, just the bufferbeam.

[AlfaZagato]

If you want to see some steam in Blue, some of the younger makes have proposed or actually done so.   I think KR did?

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, AlfaZagato said:

I think KR did?

 

Good point; I withdraw any inference that it could be a good idea.

 

But Blue would be my choice on a VoR purchase; childhood memories.

[The Stationmaster]

Only one livery for them in my view - and memory  - of them.  BR late emblem and fully lined green bulled up with all the brightwork shining even in the gloom of the original shed. Then round to the station to see them coupled to stock not long repainted in WR 'chocolate & cream' and all ready for the run up the valley in the days before the Forestry Commission plastered the view with umpteen fir trees.  Real signals on the way, staffed stations, and run like a miniature of the standard gauge railway.

 

Nice to have been around to be able to remember it like that back in the days of a holiday by the Cambrian when the first ticket purchased for me by my dad on that holiday proclaimed that it had been issued by the long gone GWR. (and yes, I've still got that ticket)

 

The only problem I face is how on earth do I Justify one?

Edited September 1, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[96701]

36 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Only one livery for them in my view - and memory  - of them.  BR late emblem and fully lined green bulled up with all the brightwork shining even in the gloom of the original shed. Then round to the station to see them coupled to stock not long repainted in WR 'chocolate & cream' and all ready for the run up the valley in the days before the Forestry Commission plastered the view with umpteen fir trees.  Real signals on the way, staffed stations, and run like a miniature of the standard gauge railway.

 

Nice to have been around to be able to remember it like that back in the days of a holiday by the Cambrian when the first ticket purchased for me by my dad on that holiday proclaimed that it had been issued by the long gone GWR. (and yes, I've still got that ticket)

 

The only problem I face is how on earth do I Justify one?

You have just justified one.

[AlfaZagato]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Good point; I withdraw any inference that it could be a good idea.

 

That's a big oof right there.   

 

I suppose I'll wait for next month, when I'll actually get this month's issue.

[009 micro modeller]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Not too dissimilar to the ones they tried in the 50s? Just to give @cctransuk a bad night's kip I'd say Blue Fives would have been alright. No yellow smokebox though, just the bufferbeam.

Or this livery (imagine it applied to an 8F, for instance 😅): https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/avonside-engine-co-works-no-2004-st-dunstan-0-6-0st/

 

I’m not a huge fan of the variation of VoR BR blue with plain blue and the double arrow on the tanks (see here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77063039@N08/8364659837 ) but I do like this version (with lining and polished metal cab side double arrow): https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adventure_In_Narrow_Gauge_-_3_(8656039010).jpg

 

The latter seems like quite a smart and well thought out application of BR’s corporate colours, while also being adapted to be appropriate to a steam loco’s shape. I think the issue with the other (unlined) version is that it isn’t really adapted at all and looks like it’s just been slapped on.

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I think the issue with the other (unlined) version is that it isn’t really adapted at all and looks like it’s just been slapped on.

 

Not far from the truth - and exactly the same impression that the vast majority of British Rail stock gave at the time.

 

A period of my (railway enthusiast) life that contains not a single memorable image!

 

CJI.

[John Besley]

5 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

There were specific instructions that 'Corporate' Blue Grey & other branding was NOT to be applied to Steam Loco's

 

The VofR somehow missed that 

 

How did it come about for the VoR then as all their stock ended up with TOPS numbering didn't it?, where were they repainted Swindon?...

[Phil Bullock]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Only one livery for them in my view - and memory  - of them.  BR late emblem and fully lined green bulled up with all the brightwork shining even in the gloom of the original shed. Then round to the station to see them coupled to stock not long repainted in WR 'chocolate & cream' and all ready for the run up the valley in the days before the Forestry Commission plastered the view with umpteen fir trees.  Real signals on the way, staffed stations, and run like a miniature of the standard gauge railway.

 

Nice to have been around to be able to remember it like that back in the days of a holiday by the Cambrian when the first ticket purchased for me by my dad on that holiday proclaimed that it had been issued by the long gone GWR. (and yes, I've still got that ticket)

 

The only problem I face is how on earth do I Justify one?

Same way I will Mike. Put it on a Weltrol en route to or from Swindon for overhaul 

[stewartingram]

I must admit I'd like one in the 1950 experimental blue, as used on th pacifics etc, complete with the early BR emblem. Lined of course. I have in mind a local (E.Anglia) n.g line of that period, with quite a back story to support it.

 

Edit to add: I Have seen somewhere a photograph of a larger model (16mm?) done this way and it looked gorgeous!

Edited September 2, 2023 by stewartingram

[009 micro modeller]

6 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

There were specific instructions that 'Corporate' Blue Grey & other branding was NOT to be applied to Steam Loco's

 

The VofR somehow missed that 

Was that pre-1968 guidance though (i.e. when they still had steam locos other than on the VoR), on the basis that steam should never be seen in the new livery lest it tarnish the modern image associated with the double arrow, Rail Blue etc.? Whereas the context for its later application on the VoR was quite different.

 

57 minutes ago, John Besley said:

 

How did it come about for the VoR then as all their stock ended up with TOPS numbering didn't it?, where were they repainted Swindon?...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_98
Did they ever carry the full TOPS numbers?

[cctransuk]

58 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Same way I will Mike. Put it on a Weltrol en route to or from Swindon for overhaul 

 

Bl**dy expensive wagon load!!

 

CJI.

[Moxy]

10 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Did they ever carry the full TOPS numbers?

 

Not 100% sure, but I very much doubt it.

 

I think they only ended up with TOPS numbers because they were BR assets at the time, and if you are making a list of all your locos, carriages and wagons, then the VoR stock had to have TOPS numbers too.

 

Being on an isolated system with a different track gauge, I doubt their trains were ever dispatched using the TOPS system. After all, there are not a lot of places they could be on the system, so they don't need to be trackable across the national network.

[009 micro modeller]

7 minutes ago, Moxy said:

I think they only ended up with TOPS numbers because they were BR assets at the time

Yes, I think they were only nominally allocated (although a bit more meaningful than that because the last digit of the TOPS number was the same as the VoR fleet number, which is carried). A related question is whether they allocated TOPS codes for the rolling stock as well.

 

Actually that brings me to another interesting (but even more off-topic) thought - although obviously the Corris, Welshpool etc. had long ceased to be part of BR when TOPS was introduced, would any of the other, more obscure BR narrow gauge locos (in sleeper depots, Horwich works and similar) have lasted long enough to get TOPS codes? Although that probably depends whether those would even have been considered to be locos in the same way as the VoR or main line ones.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Although that probably depends whether those would even have been considered to be locos in the same way as the VoR or main line ones.

 

I understand that they were classed as Permanent Way Machines (PWM - geddit)?, in the same category as tampers, etc.

 

I gather that most other PW machines were allocated PWM numbers - they were not, however, known to most enthusiasts.

 

CJI.

[Phil Bullock]

39 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Bl**dy expensive wagon load!!

 

CJI.

I know! But like Mike I have an emotional attachment…. Memories of travelling on it at an early age, when I fish the River Rheidol we see them scurrying past… and my fathers ashes are scattered by the Rheidol.

[Phil Bullock]

28 minutes ago, Moxy said:

 

Not 100% sure, but I very much doubt it.

 

I think they only ended up with TOPS numbers because they were BR assets at the time, and if you are making a list of all your locos, carriages and wagons, then the VoR stock had to have TOPS numbers too.

 

Being on an isolated system with a different track gauge, I doubt their trains were ever dispatched using the TOPS system. After all, there are not a lot of places they could be on the system, so they don't need to be trackable across the national network.

How about anywhere between Devils Bridge and Swindon? 

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

I know! But like Mike I have an emotional attachment…. Memories of travelling on it at an early age, when I fish the River Rheidol we see them scurrying past… and my fathers ashes are scattered by the Rheidol.

 

Phil,

 

If I had a pantograph milling machine, I would be cutting myself some nickel silver components in order to build an unmotorised 4mm. scale VoR 2-6-2T as a wagon load.

 

It would be a doddle to a man with your Peckett-mutilating skills! 😄

 

CJI.

[Moxy]

8 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

How about anywhere between Devils Bridge and Swindon? 

 

Once they were on the standard gauge bit from Aberystwyth to Swindon, they wouldn't be under their own power, they would be a load on the back of a wagon, so it would be the wagon's TOPS number that would be relevant in that case.

[Phil Bullock]

10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

It would be a doddle to a man with your Peckett-mutilating skills! 😄

 

CJI.

Not guilty m’lud! Can honestly say no Peckett had ever been interfered with here… 😀

Edited September 2, 2023 by Phil Bullock

[009 micro modeller]

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

If I had a pantograph milling machine, I would be cutting myself some nickel silver components in order to build an unmotorised 4mm. scale VoR 2-6-2T as a wagon load.

Wasn’t there a white metal body kit for them as well, as with a lot of well-known NG prototypes in 009? I’m not sure who made it though.