Rotherwood EM1 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 OK Forget my last paragraph! just read the Admin post! I was warned by so many people about the admin on here not having a sense of humour.. but i thought they were exagerating and thought i could post my feelings... BUT how right they were! Goodbye and good riddance to the forum i'm definitely not a trouble maker but you sure like to make me feel like one! I run three forums for other hobbies and i dont run it like you do and i have three nice fun forums where everyone is allowed there own opinion without being threatened I can live without you as i'm sure you can live without me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Having read the review in Model Rail, I’m still undecided about getting one. Agreed, it is expensive but that is par for the course with commissioned models and in fairness, Olivia’s have clearly invested a big wad of ‘hard earned’ to produce this one, especially with the prototype version on the cards for next year as well which I’m looking forward to seeing. My excuse for having one being the fact that they ran on the Liverpool St. line for a while. Apart from the price, my main concern was/is with the cab window arrangement and I’ve waited to see the finished example before commenting. Well now I have seen it and my verdict is, yes the side windows are lower than they should be but strangely I don’t think it detracts greatly from the overall model. The finish looks excellent, the face looks great and the red lining on the black one really looks crisp. I note Model Rail didn’t even pass comment about the windows and there seems to be some difference of opinion over it anyway but to my untrained eye, they’re too low but only because others drew it to my attention first. Otherwise, I just wonder if I would have ever noticed? What to do, what to do!! Given that my rule of thumb has always been: does it look good to me? The answer is: Yes, so I’ll probably buy one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I was warned by so many people about the admin on here not having a sense of humour.. but i thought they were exagerating and thought i could post my feelings... Birds of a feather and all that..... It's not what you say but like so many of that ilk it's the way that you go about it (and it just wasn't humorous at all). You'd certainly irritated a few people but we're obviously all out of step. Anyway; you've just made yourself unwelcome AFAIC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 058 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I rang Olivias today to give them my card details for my EM1 order, very expensive. But then I have ordered five of them! I have an EM2 on order too, and I will most probably order Tommy aswell! I cant wait for them to be released, ive seen the review samples and must say I am impressed. The guys at Olivias were very helpfull and friendly and they did say how much they had to pay Heljan just to get work started for Tommy, so fair play for going ahead with such prototypes, im glad they did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 A bit off topic but having seen the good review in Model Rail this week I think this could be a very popular model, so I wonder if Olivias might be willing to commission a Hadfield Class 506 unit if sales are good? With a bit of clever modelling, they could get a 306 out of their investment as well. Bit premature I know, but it would be an obvious next move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 A bit off topic but having seen the good review in Model Rail this week I think this could be a very popular model, so I wonder if Olivias might be willing to commission a Hadfield Class 506 unit if sales are good? With a bit of clever modelling, they could get a 306 out of their investment as well. Bit premature I know, but it would be an obvious next move. Sounds a good idea to me. Now all we need is some good 1500 volts OLE to go with them. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dubdee1000 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I wonder if Olivias might be willing to commission a Hadfield Class 506 unit if sales are good? Time will tell, but i suspect it may be a while before we know of the commercial success of the 76. The way its launch has coincided with the other recent releases is a little unfortunate. I'd like one, i really would, but at £170 there are maybe other things i'd like more. So far as its accuracy goes, well at the risk of poking my head above the parapet, it looks pretty reasonable and i do wonder about the purpose of some comments of accuracy to the nth when many of us don't have layouts that are detailed to the same standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 ... and i do wonder about the purpose of some comments of accuracy to the nth when many of us don't have layouts that are detailed to the same standard. It's a thought Dub, but TBH it could be taken as yet another variation on the old chestnut of 'why worry about small errors when the track gauge is 2.33mm too narrow'. Thing is, unless you know the standard that a given critic is working to on his own layout, it's not really an objective observation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dubdee1000 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Thats a very fair and well put point and i agree to some extent. I'd never buy an old Hornby 37 as its inaccuracies are something i can't live with. The Lima I can, though i dislike the motor and the Vitrains and Bachmann are better still and i'll pay out for them. I appreciate there are inaccuracies, but they're good enough for me. The thing is, there really is no limit to how far you can go regards making them accurate, but all of this comes at a cost of man hours and ultimately £. I'm *guessing* that these are factors taken into account when developing a model - how much detail/accuracy will people want; what will this cost; will people pay it. I would also guess that these latter two aspects are variable factors that manufacturers and those who commission models have little control over and make a gamble upon. Get it wrong and you're selling it too cheap or too dear and risk having unsold stock. Anyhow, back to OP, although i can't really justify the cost of it at the moment, i really hope that there are enough out there who will. It would be a terrible shame if a poor reception lead to it vanishing from the market, never to be made again with the existing models out there going for silly money on ebay or in collections still stored in their packaging Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 The thing is, there really is no limit to how far you can go regards making them accurate, but all of this comes at a cost of man hours and ultimately £. I'm *guessing* that these are factors taken into account when developing a model - how much detail/accuracy will people want; what will this cost; will people pay it. I would also guess that these latter two aspects are variable factors that manufacturers and those who commission models have little control over and make a gamble upon. Get it wrong and you're selling it too cheap or too dear and risk having unsold stock. Almost certainly, testament to which is the thirty odd pages of discussion on the Hornby VEP, which many feel has been designed down to a price. There are always production compromises to be considered, i.e choosing to make something wrong for a practical or economic reason, rather than simply not realising something is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 058 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm impressed! Did they offer a quantity discount? Unfortunatly not, but then again I didnt ask! Maybe worth asking them the question, they can only say no, and it is a lot of money for them with multiple orders. Ill see how they are when they arrive, you never know I may order another 5! I went for 1 in green (just because it looks nice) and 3 of 014 in blue (2 for renumbering) and of course I had to have 022 aswell. So hopefully soon ill be able to run double headed 76s on rakes of HAAs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Unfortunatly not, but then again I didnt ask! Maybe worth asking them the question, they can only say no, and it is a lot of money for them with multiple orders. Ill see how they are when they arrive, you never know I may order another 5! I went for 1 in green (just because it looks nice) and 3 of 014 in blue (2 for renumbering) and of course I had to have 022 aswell. So hopefully soon ill be able to run double headed 76s on rakes of HAAs! Out of interest, did you by any chance find out when they're actually due, I'm contemplating one or two (one if the wife reads it!) and might have a run over to Sheffield, I assume they have pre production models on display? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I asked Olivia's a month or so ago when they were due and was told early 2012 but the Model Rail review seems to suggest they are imminent. Sorry not much help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thats a very fair and well put point and i agree to some extent. I'd never buy an old Hornby 37 as its inaccuracies are something i can't live with. To be fair, the old Hornby 37 was a very good model of the loco let down by incorect bogies/underframe. The details on it don`t compair to the modern stuff, but it took Bachmann 3 (?) goes to get a body shape as good as the old Hornby one. Between me and my father, we have5 on order ourselves of these bobos (or should that be bo+bo?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 058 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Out of interest, did you by any chance find out when they're actually due, I'm contemplating one or two (one if the wife reads it!) and might have a run over to Sheffield, I assume they have pre production models on display? They didnt say exactly when they were due in, but it is soon, they were hoping for delivery before christmas, if not early next year. They said they had some problems with the first batch being damaged on the flight over - chipped paint etc, which is a shame but as you would expect they wont send them out unless they are perfect. Its been a long wait for them anyway so a bit longer wont hurt. To be honest id rather wait for them to be right instead of rushed out the door with defects. They also told me that the preorder customers will get theirs first by air freight from the manufacturers. They said I should get all mine very early on! And yes I think they do have pre production models at the shop, but I did phone them and not go the shop so I cant say for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I can't see that one making any commercial sense. The 76 was a risk which may or may not work but a reasonable risk for a well known class. The 506 was even more geographically restricted than the 76 so potential people interested would be lower and more importantly would involve 3 different shell moulds, not just the one, so tooling costs to produce would be much higher. Except it would be no more restricted than the 76 or 77 - apparently early units did work across to Sheffield on test (although from what I've read the long climbs caused motor overheating) but crucially the same moulding could be used for a GE Class 306, either in their original 1500v DC version or, with a modified roof moulding, as their later AC conversion. It ought to be possible to do both with the kind of moulding technology available today They also had very long lives. However, lets see how the locos sell, I expect they will do very well given they have the important "transition era" potential. The idea of having an electric hauling blood and custard ex-LNER coaches alongside steam is quite attractive! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 My main problem is the price! it's far to expensive, i wish it was a general release instead of an exclusive to one store loco because that should have made it much cheaper! My plan was to do a Woodhead type layout and have a large fleet of 76's but with the cost i wont be doing that now (i'm doing a Scottish one instead because the Heljan 26's are nice and cheap to build a big fleet) Like I said, cost is the biggest thing for me, it's much more expensive than it should be in my opinion (that goes for Olivias in general though) but i've wanted a 76 for so long i'm willing to overlook some minor faults so my money goes on the 76's rather than the class 22 which i also want... I think you misunderstood. WR stands for Western Region and Waverley Route as well as, not instead of the Woodhead Route. I'm no rivet counter but I sure am a pedant, with a capital P, and I find the above logic completely impenetrable. These are 'costly,' so instead of saving up to create your stated dream layout, you'll see what's hit the bargain bins and - whaddya know - it's my new favourite prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maxthemapman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 If I understand correctly, the Woodhead electrification was intended to be the first stage in the LNER GC electrification, so with no more what-if than many model railways, LNER and LT steam and electric at Rickmansworth sounds like a particularly fun layout. As for the Shenfield line being a "mere commuter railway", it happens to be the London end of the GE mainline, one of the most densely operated railways in the country. CLacton units, MK1 suburban EMUs, as well as LNER designed EMUs all there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwatch Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think you misunderstood. WR stands for Western Region and Waverley Route as well as, not instead of the Woodhead Route. I'm no rivet counter but I sure am a pedant, with a capital P, and I find the above logic completely impenetrable. These are 'costly,' so instead of saving up to create your stated dream layout, you'll see what's hit the bargain bins and - whaddya know - it's my new favourite prototype. Sorry admin, i had to come back to reply to this one. Since my Rotherwood EM1 account has been banned i simply created a new one to defend myself from the latest attack (no doubt this account will be banned too but i feel i deserve the right to defend myself) Is the first paragraph a personal joke of yours to attempt to belittle me? I only ask because it has no bearing on any of what i have said and only leads to try to make your next paragraph funny. As for me deciding to go for a Scottish layout is for the following reason: I always had two layout choices in mind and both are “dream layouts” (although “dream layout” are your words... If I was to build an actual dream layout i would need a warehouse to build it in) i) A Woodhead based line with Rotherwood as the main inspiration as an exchange sidings because this has close connections to my childhood or... ii) A Scottish Highland setting where I could have the layout set to run in the 70’s and 80’s time periods with both 26’s & 37’s depending on the time period i was running on that day and the Highlands are my second home. The Scottish one won because Scotland has more of a draw on me (and always has) than Rotherwood, plus in this economical climate I decided that the cost of the 76’s meant I couldn’t run the layout as i would have liked whereas the cost of the 26’s & 37’s are more acceptable (far from bargain bin as you call it) and they are fun to work on when it comes to detailing and weathering and since Scotland is where my heart really is, it made the decision extremely easy especially as I prefer to build a scenic layout rather than one that is all sidings . I still have three 76’s on order and I will get myself a couple of 77’s and I will get myself a Tommy too but they will be display models for now! I will build a small micro layout for them eventually but my time and money large layout wise will go to my Scottish one because it’s my main love and i can build up a decent loco fleet with enough money left over for rolling stock (whereas an equal fleet of 76’s would have swallowed up the budget for the rolling stock and trackwork...) and like i mentioned, in this economical climate, cost really does have to have a bearing on matters! What’s the point of having a fleet of 76’s then having no budget left for wagons for them to haul or track for them to run on! It just makes more sense to me to go the Scottish route and doing so isn’t a compromise at all, but running a reduced fleet of 76’s on a smaller layout would be! Nor is it a chance to raid the bargain bins Does that penetrate your logic in anyway? Because it makes perfect sense to me and all my friends and family! it's not hard to understand surely? or because i was banned did you think it was ok to have a personal go at me because you thought i couldnt respond and you could get people liking you comment so you felt important and funny? One final thing, my initial post was a general post with my observations on our hobby with no single person being picked out as this isn’t my style, but i’m subjected to personal digs and now my choices of modelling subject are mocked and questioned... And i’m the one that gets banned??? Hmmm! Anyway thanks to those that have contacted me and supported me via and away from the forum, it means a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwatch Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Back on the proper topic before I leave... For those other questions raised in this thread about Olivias having samples of the 76’s in the shop... yes they do, they had black, blue and green samples in when i visited and they also had an early unpainted sample of the 77 but this has too many flaws so it’s not a good example of what the finished product will look like and they have rejected this sample and Heljan have to rectify the faults. It’s more like a Triang Mk2 with the roofline, windows and bogie detail rather than an all new improvement (so much so that it really would get pulled to pieces on the forums) but it was just a very early sample anyway and these problems will be sorted It's well worth trying to get to the shop to have a look at them BTW i've heard rumours that the 506's are being talked about but if it's true then its early days Hope that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 And i’m the one that gets banned??? Hmmm! Anyway thanks to those that have contacted me and supported me via and away from the forum, it means a lot. Give these a call and see if they're interested; because I'm not. 2nd ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Doh, he's banned again; before I had chance to ask where the hapless Class 22 featured in his carefully thought-out plans, too. Risking accusations of either fishing for compliments or constructing private jokes at his expense (don't worry, the same jokes will be remaindered next week at Modelfair, so you'll save £35.00 ea), I fail to see how someone had been a member of the forum for well over a year yet so utterly misjudged what's generally regarded as basic appropriate protocol. Shakes head in disbelief, heads out to peer under a few more bridges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
55013 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Doh, he's banned again; before I had chance to ask where the hapless Class 22 featured in his carefully thought-out plans, too. Me again... besides building a region specific layout I also collect certain locos and stock that interest me and that will never run on my particular layout! or is that against your rules too? aren't i alowed to have a few display models? or can't you penetrate that logic either? bring on ban 3 Andy thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 bring on ban 3 Andy thank you You are getting rather tiresome now and fully justifying the reasons why I chose to remove access. Please entertain yourself on your own sites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I believe the technical term is Doorhandle... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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