Hornby W1 Hush Hush

[828CC]

5 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

There's a broken tender top grey W1 on Ebay with more than one day to run, currently at £310 + P&P ....

Fair enough, if that's what people are prepared to pay, their call.

Ridiculous!!

Al.

Damn !!!  Shouldn't have sent mine back...

Edited December 12, 2021 by 828CC
grammar

[WisTramwayMan]

Even the example of R3840 photographed on Kernow's website is faulty, with the steps behind the cylinders on the RH of the loco missing.....

 

And then you hear Simon Kohler's comments on the current Hornby TV series; pity there isn't an extra episode about Hornby QA (or lack of it).

[pom-pom]

Stuffed and mounted with a 1930 contemporary. Wish I still had a layout to run it on... :-/  Did anyone have to prune the overly long sandpipes, I wonder?

 

My commiserations to those out there with broken ones. I feel your pain. My last Hornby QC upset was over one of the first 'ski jump' A3s and as many of us now know, a bad one looks truly awful. Well done there @micklner for posting on Hornby's Facebook page - let's hope it gets noticed and acted upon.

 

Nick

 

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

... Hornby will hopefully make an additional batch ... So hopefully even if an exchange is not possible now, you can get an example in a few months ....

 

'Hopefully' is no way to run business !!

 

Competent businesses are constantly looking for any means by which their operation can fail to deliver the planned result - and eliminate those potential failure scenarios.

 

IMHO, too much time and effort has been expended by certain senior staff at Hornby in trumpeting their operation, and nowhere near enough in actually delivering undamaged products to the customers who pay their salaries.

 

Have a care - it could all end in tears for those who have it in their power to remedy these failings!

 

CJI.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

Well I've now applied power (only via a couple of lengths of straight track and it runs quietly & very well, starting at something like 2.6v straight out of the box - I guess I'm one of the very lucky ones; I hope all those who are disappointed get their purchases sorted satisfactorily without too much hassle.

I'm not so sure about the pony truck arrangement though; having wheels that float about a 1mm above the rails just doesn't seem quite right to me - I look forward to the various "fixes" that I'm sure will follow.....

I've just tried the replacement flanged wheels.

No good. The axles are tight in the channel and won't rotate with the keeper plate screwed home.

I can't quite see why as the axles are all 2mm and the wheels are all 12.5mm diameter

Leave it loose and the wheels rotate but with insufficient sideplay and lift the drivers at a 36" curve.

IMHO there is enough room in frame to have a lot more sideplay and some vertical movement

I've managed to get the drawbar screw out of the tender and reversed the drawbar. Tried it on short position. A bit too close, wont go around a bend in reverse but OK on large radius forwards

 

I'm getting the impression that too much has been sacrificed for the display aspect of the model.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

There's a broken tender top grey W1 on Ebay with more than one day to run, currently at £310 + P&P ....

Fair enough, if that's what people are prepared to pay, their call.

Ridiculous!!

Al.

Wow…so thats the strategy..

 

Broken must be the new weathering.

 

Broken models are worth more than good ones.

 

The real thing did spend over 1000 days in works, so maybe they are onto something.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by adb968008

[zr2498]

13 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I've just tried the replacement flanged wheels.

No good. The axles are tight in the channel and won't rotate with the keeper plate screwed home.

I can't quite see why as the axles are all 2mm and the wheels are all 12.5mm diameter

Leave it loose and the wheels rotate but with insufficient sideplay and lift the drivers at a 36" curve.

IMHO there is enough room in frame to have a lot more sideplay and some vertical movement

I've managed to get the drawbar screw out of the tender and reversed the drawbar. Tried it on short position. A bit too close, wont go around a bend in reverse but OK on large radius forwards

 

I'm getting the impression that too much has been sacrificed for the display aspect of the model.

Seems as though this aspect of the model has been compromised. We have waited for the RTR W1 Hush Hush for a long time, so what an opportunity but that extra bit of thought given to the more serious modellers  has not been forthcoming. We have other suppliers for example, ensuring easy conversion to EM and P4. Why just have an extra set of wheels for display only? If that is what a customer wishes then why pay for a motor and motion? Lots of really fine detail attended to on the locomotive but with just a little more effort working flanged wheels could have been designed for (for large radius curves). I guess this highlights the boundary between the railway modeller and train set enthusiast. Hornby seems to have a foot in both camps; with extra detail such as that mentioned in their program going all out to be accurate re the P2' then then having wheels floating in mid air above the track at the other end of the spectrum. 

And if that might be considered expensive then market these as optional extras for those that can manage the conversion.

I guess a conversion will be done and demonstrated on RMWeb which I would be pleased to see.

[melmerby]

29 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

I guess a conversion will be done and demonstrated on RMWeb which I would be pleased to see.

I reckon, someone, who is brave enough to butcher such an exquisite model, will machine away the current mountings for the wheels and fabricate something that will work properly.

The "Cartazzi" doesn't need much just a straightforward mounting that will allow sideplay and a little vertical movement, the "Bissel" truck would need a swivel like the real thing.

There appears to be enough room in the frame, about 23mm clearance for the Cartazzi weels and about 25mm for the Bissel.

Edited December 12, 2021 by melmerby
proofreading/dodgy keyboard

[Dodger]

4 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I assume you’re talking mail order here ?
In defence of retailers,I think that’s grossly  unfair and I believe the damage is caused at the manufacturer by hurried clumsy packaging. Some retailers ,Derails is an example.do check and test before dispatch and in a perfect world many more could do so. Others ….and there certainly are some….have premises with no test facility.Be that as it may,the process of sending damaged goods back to Hornby is difficult,especially when a cash flow situation creates problems  for the business with refunds for dissatisfied customers at £200 each. And then they have to negotiate refunds from Hornby in addition. A hassle indeed. And there is no concrete evidence that as you appear to allude this is chiefly down to lack of due diligence on the part of the retailers. Indeed I am sure they would have something to say about that.. Advising the trade to “up its game” is insulting and far too simplistic a solution when there is a long fault chain from the UK to China 

 

 

 

[Dodger]

Hi Ian.

Yes I was referring to the 'mail order' aspect of this process and indeed if I were a retailer sending out items of high value I would be checking them before dispatch to cover my back if no-one elses. I buy many items via mail order from a well known model railway retailer and they are well packaged and to date no damage has occurred to anything I have ordered. It is simplistic - and I am sorry you feel insulted but this is not a popularity contest and I have given my opinion on the subject, which I have every right to.

Stay safe,

Roger

[Ian Hargrave]

16 minutes ago, Dodger said:

Hi Ian.

Yes I was referring to the 'mail order' aspect of this process and indeed if I were a retailer sending out items of high value I would be checking them before dispatch to cover my back if no-one elses. I buy many items via mail order from a well known model railway retailer and they are well packaged and to date no damage has occurred to anything I have ordered. It is simplistic - and I am sorry you feel insulted but this is not a popularity contest and I have given my opinion on the subject, which I have every right to.

Stay safe,

Roger

No I don’t feel insulted but a good number of retailers some of whom post on here might be miffed at reading what you’ve posted. There is no contest of any kind but when expressing an opinion,which you did in forceful terms,have a care for the feelings of some who might be reading what you post,especially as ,I assume, you have no personal experience of this particular model and don’t know who or what is responsible. You have a right to an opinion certainly within certain constraints but not open season on the tone of what you post. The retail trade in many cases is struggling to keep going and does its  best to satisfy our needs . It doesn’t need further kicks.

[GWR-fan]

Outsourcing the distribution to me seems an out for Hornby when it comes to claims being made.  How does one prove where the actual damage occurred?  If the items are "drop shipped" and the company never sees the items in a wharehouse,  then finding a broken/damaged item before distribution occurs could be very difficult.  For those receiving a damaged item is the dispute with the distribution company who packaged the item for posting or with the manufacturer?  Apparently,  even items purchased directly through the Hornby website are not distributed by Hornby.

[micklner]

How many of the damaged ones mentioned on here,  have actually not been bought direct from Hornby ?

Edited December 12, 2021 by micklner

[31A]

57 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I reckon, someone, who is brave enough to butcher such an exquisite model, will machine away the current mountings for the wheels and fabricate something that will work properly.

The "Cartazzi" doesn't need much just a straightforward mounting that will allow sideplay and a little vertical movement, the "Bissel" truck would need a swivel like the real thing.

There appears to be enough room in the frame, about 23mm clearance for the Cartazzi weels and about 25mm for the Bissel.

 

I wondered whether it might be possible to replace both trailing axles with a 4 wheeled bogie, inside the fixed frames, making it a 4-6-4?  I won't be getting one until the 60700 version arrives, so I don't know what that area of the model looks like apart from a glimpse in one of the photos of a damaged model further up the thread.

[828CC]

2 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Outsourcing the distribution to me seems an out for Hornby when it comes to claims being made.  How does one prove where the actual damage occurred?  If the items are "drop shipped" and the company never sees the items in a wharehouse,  then finding a broken/damaged item before distribution occurs could be very difficult.  For those receiving a damaged item is the dispute with the distribution company who packaged the item for posting or with the manufacturer?  Apparently,  even items purchased directly through the Hornby website are not distributed by Hornby.

I believe the buck stops with those who took your money, unless somebody knows different?

[stewartingram]

Damaged goods are the responsibility of the seller in law.

[828CC]

17 minutes ago, micklner said:

How many of the damaged ones mentioned on here,  have actually not been bought direct from Hornby ?

I will respond and say mine wasn't.  It did come with a: 'price reduced' sticker which I found a bit strange as according to the retailer they had only just arrived, and subsequently sold out within three hours!

Returned for refund......

Edited December 12, 2021 by 828CC
dodjee speling!

[micklner]

4 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

I wondered whether it might be possible to replace both trailing axles with a 4 wheeled bogie, inside the fixed frames, making it a 4-6-4?  I won't be getting one until the 60700 version arrives, so I don't know what that area of the model looks like apart from a glimpse in one of the photos of a damaged model further up the thread.

Yes you can , I have two Horby A4's I converted to W1's, using Grame Kings resin parts. Both use a simple box on a centre swing arm at the rear. They go around about 3 foot curves without problems. The Hornby A4 rear area is shorter and leaves enough space for bogie turning to happen.

I hope to pick up a "I hope its intact"  Hornby W1 tomorrow, I will surprised if there is much space in the W1's rear area, it will probably have a center casting for the fixed wheels etc  . I will do some comparison photos in due course.

[robmcg]

On 09/12/2021 at 17:33, Hilux5972 said:

That doesn’t give me much confidence for an 18,000km trip to New Zealand. 

 

I have similar misgivings about my order from TMC.

 

But when I see the prices on Ebay it looks like even in bits it would be worth a mint.

 

We shall see how the pre-xmas mail to NZ works out. Good luck.

[Mel_H]

Given all the comments, I was a tad concerned with my 'free-floating' example delivered by Hermes direct from Hornby. I was one of the unfortunate people who ordered from Derails, only to be told about three weeks ago that Hornby had cut their allocation. So I had no choice other than to order 'full price' direct from Hornby. Happily, mine is all intact, complete with the detail pack. I agree that bubble wrap, or 'crushed cardboard' as used by some shippers, would help to prevent damage from the sudden 'stop' when stuff is chucked around.

 

[melmerby]

On 12/12/2021 at 20:38, 31A said:

 

I wondered whether it might be possible to replace both trailing axles with a 4 wheeled bogie, inside the fixed frames, making it a 4-6-4?  I won't be getting one until the 60700 version arrives, so I don't know what that area of the model looks like apart from a glimpse in one of the photos of a damaged model further up the thread.

Forb those interested here are the measurements inside the rear frame.

Cartazzi about 23mm:

 

Bissell truck about 25mm:

 

You can also see the mountings for the wheelsets.

IMHO they are too wide, as there is virtually no side to side play in the wheel sets

Also they are not deep enough, as with the slightest dip in the track it bottoms the "bissell" wheelset lifting the back of the loco and reducing the adhesion of the driving wheels to nil.

IMHO the wheelbase is too long to be rigid. It needs some vertical movement.

The idea of an aftermarket 4 wheel truck sounds ideal, the mountings for the supplied wheelsets would need removing.

Edited April 7, 2022 by melmerby

[Rshakes3]

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I have similar misgivings about my order from TMC.

 

But when I see the prices on Ebay it looks like even in bits it would be worth a mint.

 

We shall see how the pre-xmas mail to NZ works out. Good luck.

Hi RobMcg - good to see you back here! Now I`ve just taken Delivery of my model direct  from Hornby and I`m happy to report all was well, The Driver's side steps were lose but easily replaced. So very happy with mine - no damage. Fingers crossed for yours  

[micklner]

As said earlier little room without cutting the centre casting off. On a £200 Loco I think i will live with it . If a "cheap" chassis ever appears on ebay it might then be viable.

 

[Rshakes3]

2 minutes ago, Rshakes3 said:

Hi RobMcg - good to see you back here! Now I`ve just taken Delivery of my model direct  from Hornby and I`m happy to report all was well, The Driver's side steps were lose but easily replaced. So very happy with mine - no damage. Fingers crossed for yours  

And just confirming - I`m in Wollongong  - south of Sydney - so a long way from for the W1 to come.

 

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

As said earlier little room without cutting the centre casting off. On a £200 Loco I think i will live with it . If a "cheap" chassis ever appears on ebay it might then be viable.

 

Hornby will have plenty of spare chassis as the broken bodies are returned. I would buy one for a fiver!