Hornby W1 Hush Hush

[Hamburger]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

When rebuilt it should sound pretty much like an A4.

Maybe the biggers cylinders would mean bigger chuffs?

to be honest I don't know if they replaced outer cylinders or not . . . 

have to check...

but chuff timbre must have been almost identical.

 

EDIT: just checked.

They kept the larger cylinders but had cylinder outlet valves smaller than the A4's - so maybe a tie?

Really don't know but louder chuffs might suit well...

Edited December 18, 2021 by Hamburger

[MikeParkin65]

50 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It would seem to be the obvious culprit but it hasn't turned out to be as easy as that.

Unfortunately It's still doing it with them removed.

The nearest I can get is the gap between stock rails by the frog, where they are at opposite voltage. Not sure why, yet or if it is that.

Is it anything to do with the length of the loco causing a momentary short as the leading wheels are reaching the ‘new’ polarity before the last wheel of the tender has left the previous if you see what I mean?

[viridim]

20 minutes ago, Hamburger said:

to be honest I don't know if they replaced outer cylinders or not . . . 

have to check...

but chuff timbre must have been almost identical.

Outside cylinders were the same size after rebuild.

[Edna Clouds]

2 hours ago, Hamburger said:

un-rebuilt: 4

rebuilt: 6

Cheers, Mr Burger - thank you.

[micklner]

2 hours ago, Hamburger said:

I think they couldn't because the double blast pipe version also had different gear actuators, clearly visible, even cab interior should be different.

First I have read of these differences . Not mentioned in the William Brown book, there only a couple of poor photos of the Loco in Double Chimney days, nothing obvious in the photos that is  different, other than the Double Chimney, Smokebox Door exposed and the P2 type extra cowling.

[ikcdab]

2 hours ago, Bonniedundee said:

Does anyone know how many models were produced and delivered to Hornby/retailers? Find it hard to believe a model (R3840) that wasn’t a Limited edition has sold out in a fortnight. Like many I am disappointed to say the least to be sent a broken model with no chance of replacement after years of waiting

 these days everything is a limited edition in that only a fixed number are produced in China and shipped back to the UK. Once those are sold then they are gone. 

[MoonM]

Another victim here. I got my hopes up too. Smoke deflectors all intact, tender not snapped either. Tested the running and all seems OK. Then flipped the loco round and noticed steps up to the running plate were missing on the right side. On closer inspection I could see where they had snapped off (attached). Annoying as thought I had got lucky. Double annoyed as I had asked kernow models to check the loco over before sending (so they've either missed this or inadvertently broken them whilst checking it and not noticed). The missing steps were not in the pack at all so were damaged in transit to me. Hope there's a way of getting replacement steps as happy to fix back on rather than run the gauntlet of having to find another one that is OK. 

[Bonniedundee]

13 minutes ago, MoonM said:

Another victim here. I got my hopes up too. Smoke deflectors all intact, tender not snapped either. Tested the running and all seems OK. Then flipped the loco round and noticed steps up to the running plate were missing on the right side. On closer inspection I could see where they had snapped off (attached). Annoying as thought I had got lucky. Double annoyed as I had asked kernow models to check the loco over before sending (so they've either missed this or inadvertently broken them whilst checking it and not noticed). The missing steps were not in the pack at all so were damaged in transit to me. Hope there's a way of getting replacement steps as happy to fix back on rather than run the gauntlet of having to find another one that is OK. 

Exactly the same situation with Kernow model centre. I asked Kernow to check before sending and they had also printed those instructions onto the despatch note (highlighted too!) included with the order but when I opened the box I could immediately see damage! 

[JSpencer]

Mine came in 100s of bits when I recieved it. With no paint work etc neither. But I soon put that right.

 

The South Eastern kit I built 25 years ago still giving me excellent service today. 

 

[Edge]

1 hour ago, Bonniedundee said:

Exactly the same situation with Kernow model centre. I asked Kernow to check before sending and they had also printed those instructions onto the despatch note (highlighted too!) included with the order but when I opened the box I could immediately see damage! 

were the pieces in the box? If they are then it’s entirely possible that it suffered the damage after dispatch from Kernow

[robmcg]

On 16/12/2021 at 02:36, Hilux5972 said:

If I was closer to UK then I would have returned it. Being 18,000km away in New Zealand is a different story. 

 

I'm glad you got that sorted, after the initial trepidation, elation, disappointment, and eventually having a beautiful model of an interesting part of railway history.

 

I tend to expect some errors in all RTR purcases these days, I was lucky with recent A2/2s and A2/3s with none being particularly bad, most were great, but then Hornby green doesn't offend me. Equally I have both the new Clans and they are great, but 72004 had no front top lamp holder, a minor thing. Both have poorly-fitted tender lower front sections, and someone noticed that both have the small cinder shields between the cab windows upside down,  who would normally notice such thing?  It's one of those things which having been seen cannot easily be 'unseen'. Minor issues. I'm still gretly impressed by Hornby getting such complex and delicate models into shops for typically under UKP200 with discount.

 

Of the two W1s I have bought one was  UKP164 after VAT came off, and one was UKP200, in each case, post being on top of that. Both of these R3840s are still stuck in the UK at airports waiting for room on flights, or the scanning people are trying to manage the big volumes of traffic, so I shall have to be patient.  

 

As to QC I think I have about a 50-50 chance of a good clean one with anything minor easily fixable, but that's entirely a guess, when with A2s it seemed in the relevant thread here that they were commonly  poor and yet all mine survived the 18,000kms fully intact. They are to my mind the best RTR done recently in 00. 

 

Condolences to all who have received damaged W1s, it's certainly very hard to work out whether Hornby are receiving lots of returns, or what they might do.

[Bonniedundee]

11 minutes ago, Edge said:

were the pieces in the box? If they are then it’s entirely possible that it suffered the damage after dispatch from Kernow

The broken pieces were in the box. It is possible that the damage occurred on the journey from Kernow models. One will never know. What is clear is that the damage is identical to previous posts 

[MoonM]

1 hour ago, Bonniedundee said:

The broken pieces were in the box. It is possible that the damage occurred on the journey from Kernow models. One will never know. What is clear is that the damage is identical to previous posts 

In my case, pieces were not in the box. Would rather they were as is should be a simple fix. So either (i) broken before dispatch from the manufacturer and kernow missed in their inspection before sent to me or (ii) kernow may have accidentally broken it and not noticed during their inspection before sending to me. Not sure which. 

[melmerby]

Has anyone measured one of these?

I noticed the front steps were hitting a platform edge, which was sized to clear GWR outside cylinders (Hall, Grange etc.)

I measured across the front steps = 44mm, that's a whopping 11ft! The cylinders were 39mm, which is 9' 9", the cab end is much nearer reality.

 

 

I know UK 4mm models tend to be wide to get the valve gear in etc. but 44mm?

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Has anyone measured one of these?

I noticed the front steps were hitting a platform edge, which was sized to clear GWR outside cylinders (Hall, Grange etc.)

I measured across the front steps = 44mm, that's a whopping 11ft! The cylinders were 39mm, which is 9' 9", the cab end is much nearer reality.

 

 

I know UK 4mm models tend to be wide to get the valve gear in etc. but 44mm?

 

One of the R3840s on offer on Ebay , one of the few which has been taken out of its box for photos, has a shot of the engine on its side and one footrest looks particulary 'splayed out'...  so whether this a typical assembly issue or design issue I would not know. It would be vulnerable to hurried packing damage, or subsequent shocks and vibration, and given that in most cases where the step is missing it is not in the packaging one can only blame the factory, alas.

[zr2498]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

One of the R3840s on offer on Ebay , one of the few which has been taken out of its box for photos, has a shot of the engine on its side and one footrest looks particulary 'splayed out'...  so whether this a typical assembly issue or design issue I would not know. It would be vulnerable to hurried packing damage, or subsequent shocks and vibration, and given that in most cases where the step is missing it is not in the packaging one can only blame the factory, alas.

Would agree. Of the two I have sent back, one had the steps put on splayed so much that it would not exit a Peco Loco lift. The other had them tight in and I had to check under strong light to make sure no contact with cylinder running components - just OK. I would advise a slow crawl around a layout to check clearances. Usually front steps are left for the customer to add if the layout can accommodate them (depending on the tightness of curves). In this case the QC really needed a gauge check on the width or perhaps a long tab / locator to better fix the angle. If Hornby are reading this? For the next W1 models then a recommendation to the factory re assembly? And get the clam shell packaging modified to better support the loco with reduced load on the fragile deflectors. Mr Hornby please understand that most of us wish you success and appreciate the new models. If problems are highlighted on this thread then use the info for feed back into the an improvement process. Better for us and better for you.

Edited December 19, 2021 by zr2498

[melmerby]

14 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Is it anything to do with the length of the loco causing a momentary short as the leading wheels are reaching the ‘new’ polarity before the last wheel of the tender has left the previous if you see what I mean?

All the rails on one side or other are at the same polarity, as they should be, so no, I don't see what you mean.

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

All the rails on one side or other are at the same polarity, as they should be, so no, I don't see what you mean.

I mean straddling the frog and the potential for some part of the wheelbase to touch a piece of track of the opposite polarity. Hard to put into words. I’m no electronics whizz but i have had instances of flangeless bogies causing momentary shorts - old version Duchess is a case in point. 

[2750Papyrus]

36 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

straddling the frog 

sounds more like a hopeful Princess than a Duchess!

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

sounds more like a hopeful Princess than a Duchess!

 

RUDE !!!!!

 

CJI.

[MoonM]

55 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I mean straddling the frog and the potential for some part of the wheelbase to touch a piece of track of the opposite polarity. Hard to put into words. I’m no electronics whizz but i have had instances of flangeless bogies causing momentary shorts - old version Duchess is a case in point. 

I had assumed that was the reason the flange less bogie wheels are raised (ie, made my peace with the small gap under them being to solve for this potential issue)? 

[cctransuk]

6 minutes ago, MoonM said:

I had assumed that was the reason the flange less bogie wheels are raised (ie, made my peace with the small gap under them being to solve for this potential issue)? 

 

This wide, flangeless, raised trailing wheels thing is a real b*lls-up, isn't it ?

 

A pivoting truck, with plenty of side play, which can be locked with a second screw, would have been much simpler.

 

CJI.

[MoonM]

21 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

This wide, flangeless, raised trailing wheels thing is a real b*lls-up, isn't it ?

 

A pivoting truck, with plenty of side play, which can be locked with a second screw, would have been much simpler.

 

CJI.

It is a very crude solution and there may have been better ways of doing it. Of more concern to me is the lack of vertical play in the front pony wheels which causes wheelslip on even the slightest gradient or uneven track sections. 

[maico]

2 hours ago, MoonM said:

It is a very crude solution and there may have been better ways of doing it. Of more concern to me is the lack of vertical play in the front pony wheels which causes wheelslip on even the slightest gradient or uneven track sections. 

 

Take a look at Sam's Trains video at 44.39 mins. This is a section of track in front of the controller he puts most of the test locos on and they normally have no issues even though it's uneven. The W1 is stranded like a beached whale. There may be a lack of vertical sprung compliance on the main wheels? The weight is on the non-driven wheels.

 

The loco was stalling upside down in the cradle. Sam took the wheels off and checked the quartering, and for bent rods, swarf, etc. but couldn't find the binding problem. I wonder if the slots for the axle bushings are drilled out of square?

On the track, a short is also a possibility. I use Trix C-Trix which has live frogs and small gaps. Only one loco has ever stuttered or stalled on the points. A Trix E19 with working pick-ups on all wheels including front and rear bogies, so the short is something of a mystery.

The W1 with 4 rear flangeless wheels moving sideways and vertically on and off the track might be taking things too far and triggering shorts?

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by maico

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, MoonM said:

It is a very crude solution and there may have been better ways of doing it. Of more concern to me is the lack of vertical play in the front pony wheels which causes wheelslip on even the slightest gradient or uneven track sections. 

?

I can push down at the front of mine and the rear drivers raise slightly, so there must be some movement.

More movement might be desirable but there is some.