Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I quoted Milton Friedman earlier, and so here is some more food for thought this time from Yuri Besmenov:

 

"Ideological subversion, or psychological warfare changes the perception of reality to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country."

 

There are a lot of confusing narratives, many from main stream media sources, some of which are born of fear based upon the avoidance of human interaction. Conversely the lack of human interaction is something that people are fearful of. Confusion itself is at times able to induce fear, fear reduces peoples ability think clearly and to be able to work out what is correct and what is otherwise. Should you succumb to such a state of mind then your outlook upon life will become negative and will lead to a general malaise in ones moods, that is a form of dis-ease in and of itself.

 

Here is another one for you this time from, Swami Vivenkananda:

 

"We are what out thoughts have made us; so take care about what you think. Words are secondary. Thoughts live; they travel far."

 

Cheer up, lighten your mood, think positive or it really will get worse !!!

 

Gibbo.

[spikey]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

... GP surgeries using telephone triage as a matter of course making it even harder to see them face to face

 

I look forward to the day when A&E departments do that.  Something's got to be done before much longer to stop people misusing emergency services.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Skool closures start Monday here. Alison's older boys, at senior skool, will have assignments given online. There will be online tests, too, starting at a specific time and finishing ditto, with the finished 'paper' to be submitted at or before the deadline. Better than nothing, considering the closures are expected to continue until May.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Tell me about it, I caught chickenpox at 38 from my son and ended up with double pneumonia in hospital for 2 weeks with industrial quantities of antibiotics. The plus side was that I was put in an isolation room, the downside to that was having to clean someone else's blood off the shower walls; small wonder the hospital got a name for killing too many inmates off some years later. And that was when I was younger, fitter and less fat!

 

Having gone through that (plus something else before) and how serious a situation it was is why the descriptions of the advanced stages of this virus frightens the brown stuff out of me.

Big sympathy vote from me Andy.  I caught chickenpox in my 20s - probably from a bunch of school kids who came to visit the station and some of whom wanted to be led by the hand, my hand.  it was bl**dy  horrible although when I went to see the doctor it got quite amusing because having described my symptoms I was told to drop my trousers and he was getting a torch handy but as soon as I undid my shirt the 'drop trouser's command was cancelled and I was informed that I had textbook example of  chickenpox  (so obviously not another sort of pox).   fortunately i didn't reach the pneumonia stage.

 

But on the basis of age and existing ailments, and prescription medicines, I'm in a fairly high risk category if I catch this one so I'm already being careful about where I go so two shows are already deleted from my calendar (Basingstoke, and dare i mention it, Ally Pally)

 

But when I started this thread one thing which interested me as much as the potential health issues was the likely economic impact which, to be honest, I thought was likely to be both widespread and hit areas which many people weren't even thinking of at that stage.  That, alas seems to be coming true with a very wide range of industries and companies being hit in various ways.  While it might not necessarily halt globalisation I suspect we will see changes in the strategy of many govts and companies if they bother to think things through more carefully instead of simply continuing to look for electoral popularity using 'giveaway' politics.  The interesting thing will be how the people react to that in the allegedly democratic countries and see if we are prepared to accept such changes.  For example will we be happy to buy only seasonal or frozen vegetables?  Might sound daft asking a question like that but it could possibly happen as a world readjusts?

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I was told to drop my trousers and he was getting a torch handy

 

I suppose that's one way of ensuring that people didn't bother him unnecessarily on future occasions. I would have emphasised the chicken part of the word again at that point.

[Markwj]

I am told our local a&e hasn't breached its 4 hour target for the last week indicating patients are no longer going in the numbers they were. There have been no social media posts from the hospital asking people not to attend which there were almost daily a couple of weeks ago.

Hopefully this behaviour change will stick when the crisis is over meaning patients will be less likely to rock up at a&e in the future and be more willing to self care or use other community based services.

[Oldddudders]

There are winners and losers in every unplanned event like this. The losers are many, sadly, and the cost in human terms, leaving aside mortality, will be substantial, with employment and businesses folding for good. Lives ruined.

 

Short term, of course, loo rolls are the product of choice - why? why? - but I foresee a surge in adoption of video-conferencing equipment and techniques and similar ways of circumventing travel. Working from home will also prove to be more possible than many firms had anticipated hitherto, and will cause a rethink in many boardrooms.

 

Net result will be a benefit to the environment, we might hope. It's an ill wind.....

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I quoted Milton Friedman earlier, and so here is some more food for thought this time from Yuri Besmenov:

 

"Ideological subversion, or psychological warfare changes the perception of reality to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country."

 

There are a lot of confusing narratives, many from main stream media sources, some of which are born of fear based upon the avoidance of human interaction. Conversely the lack of human interaction is something that people are fearful of. Confusion itself is at times able to induce fear, fear reduces peoples ability think clearly and to be able to work out what is correct and what is otherwise. Should you succumb to such a state of mind then your outlook upon life will become negative and will lead to a general malaise in ones moods, that is a form of dis-ease in and of itself.

 

Here is another one for you this time from, Swami Vivenkananda:

 

"We are what out thoughts have made us; so take care about what you think. Words are secondary. Thoughts live; they travel far."

 

Cheer up, lighten your mood, think positive or it really will get worse !!!

 

Gibbo.

 

'Swami Viv' was one of Beatle George's gurus during his 'herbal tea' phase.... in times of doubt, sit cross legged on the living room floor and drink lots of tea...! Joking aside, apart from my other half's 83 yer old mum all of our elderly relatives are long gone so we don't need to worry too much about passing anything on to those who are more vulnerable. My only real concern at present on a practical level is having to travel across London on the tube for our regular 6051 / 6M51 job in and out of Battersea stone terminal. For the moment everything seems to be running  normally, the construction industry appears to be ticking along as per normal but I dare say this may change at some point.

 

 

 

 

[runs as required]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

... I foresee a surge in adoption of video-conferencing equipment and techniques and similar ways of circumventing travel. Working from home will also prove to be more possible than many firms had anticipated hitherto, and will cause a rethink in many boardrooms.

Net result will be a benefit to the environment, we might hope. It's an ill wind.....

 

Older son's law firm has just commenced working from home (approx a dozen solicitors in all). He says depending on how it goes, they could save themselves many hundreds of thousands in rent on Marylebone High St.

Second son (self employed in offshore H&S) had one day in Margate earlier in week, second gig in Aberdeen Thurs & Fri where he says one of the organising engineers withdrew with the symptoms overnight. There were "finger buffets" at each event.

Back home now, son rang to say he's commencing 'self isolation'.

 

Interesting times !

 

[Gibbo675]

42 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 The interesting thing will be how the people react to that in the allegedly democratic countries and see if we are prepared to accept such changes.  For example will we be happy to buy only seasonal or frozen vegetables?  Might sound daft asking a question like that but it could possibly happen as a world readjusts?

Hi Mike,

 

In the spirit of problem-reaction-solution the populous of the western nations may well be shepherded into the acceptance and acquiescence of:

• Severe travel restrictions.
• Fully traceable digital currency systems connected to a Chinese style social crediting system.
• The reduction of property rights.
• Restriction of employment and work opportunities causing financial ruin.
• The reduction of privacy.
• Enforcement "bio prevention measures".
• The application of equal rights / poverty for all.
• The dismantling of current economic and financial structures as we know them.

This may possibly be how it could be implemented:

1. The problem is the Corona virus, the common cold is a type of Corona virus for which there is no known cure.
2. Test everyone for Corona virus, do remember that the common cold is a Corona virus for which there is no known cure.
3. Implement any or all of the above points in any area chosen as suits the whim of government should anyone test positive for the common cold.

I am well aware that some shall deride me for the above, but all I have done is to observe what has happened so far, what is currently going on and considered the various trajectories of such actions.

 

Gibbo.

[Gwiwer]

53 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

There are winners and losers in every unplanned event like this.

 

In the short term the winners seem to be the supermarkets whose tills are ringing furiously.  Today's visit to Waitrose found nothing lacking from my list but shelves stripped bare in many areas including canned vegetables, pasta, rice, medications, sanitary products, tissues (but not toilet rolls), store-baked bread and cat food (why cat food???).  I suspect the flip side will be a sharp downturn in business when everyone realises their garages and spare rooms are full of items they won't need in this lifetime.  And maybe then those will be donated to homeless shelters, who knows?   

 

The losers seem to be the population at large who are still seeing hysterical newspaper headlines suggesting we will all be confined to home, that all public gatherings are to be outlawed and - by misinterpretation - that there is an urgent need to hoard.  I am still waiting to see the Press report Mr. Mophead as saying that if we keep calm and carry on all will be well in almost all cases and there really is no need for hype, panic or hoarding.  I am wondering who, if anyone, is in control here and what - apart from sales - might be the media's agenda.  

[jonny777]

3 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Mike,

 

In the spirit of problem-reaction-solution the populous of the western nations may well be shepherded into the acceptance and acquiescence of:

• Severe travel restrictions.
• Fully traceable digital currency systems connected to a Chinese style social crediting system.
• The reduction of property rights.
• Restriction of employment and work opportunities causing financial ruin.
• The reduction of privacy.
• Enforcement "bio prevention measures".
• The application of equal rights / poverty for all.
• The dismantling of current economic and financial structures as we know them.

This may possibly be how it could be implemented:

1. The problem is the Corona virus, the common cold is a type of Corona virus for which there is no known cure.
2. Test everyone for Corona virus, do remember that the common cold is a Corona virus for which there is no known cure.
3. Implement any or all of the above points in any area chosen as suits the whim of government should anyone test positive for the common cold.

I am well aware that some shall deride me for the above, but all I have done is to observe what has happened so far, what is currently going on and considered the various trajectories of such actions.

 

Gibbo.

 

 

I'm not sure that is completely true.

 

The common cold is a rhinovirus and there are differences - 

 

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-coronavirus-and-rhinovirus/

[AY Mod]

Sound familiar?

 

 

[Gwiwer]

5 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

be shepherded into the acceptance and acquiescence of:

 

Some sections of the population might be more prepared than others to accept this.  High-density inner-city areas may find that a flashpoint and a step too far if these things are enforced.  The question then arises as to how best to manage the risk - spread of disease or containing social unrest.  The Italians may be singing to each other but I really don't want to be regaled with some of the disrespectful and obnoxious rap which many of the younger folk listen to   

[Gibbo675]

1 minute ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

I'm not sure that is completely true.

 

The common cold is a rhinovirus and there are differences - 

 

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-coronavirus-and-rhinovirus/

Hi Jonny,

 

This may well be true but does it allay any of what I wrote with regard the shutting down of the social and economic structures of the world as we know it.

 

A friend of mine went skiing in Italy not long ago and at the border with France everyone on the bus was zapped with a laser thermometer. Should any one have had a temperature they would have been off to quarantine. The question then needs to be asked how many things can cause a temperature, it could be all manner of things but off to quarantine it would have been regardless.

 

Gibbo.

[4630]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Sound familiar?

 

 

 

Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn could never have imagined how much their brilliant writing - and wonderfully acted of course by the late Paul Eddington, Nigel Hawthorne and very recently Derek Fowlds - has always been so close to the mark.  Absolutely ageless and still spot on.

 

Thanks for posting that Andy.  It's a real tonic today.

 

 

[jonny777]

18 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Jonny,

 

This may well be true but does it allay any of what I wrote with regard the shutting down of the social and economic structures of the world as we know it.

 

A friend of mine went skiing in Italy not long ago and at the border with France everyone on the bus was zapped with a laser thermometer. Should any one have had a temperature they would have been off to quarantine. The question then needs to be asked how many things can cause a temperature, it could be all manner of things but off to quarantine it would have been regardless.

 

Gibbo.

 

 

I understand your point, but I think scary times call for scary restrictions in freedom. 

 

People have become used to shouting "you can't stop me doing that, it is against my human rights" but times have suddenly changed. 

 

If I was refused bus transport because I had a temperature, then so be it. I might not know what I had, but I would feel obliged to confine myself to my room and wait for symptoms (if any) to appear. I wouldn't like to think I was infecting others around me. 

 

 

[Liam]

4 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Sound familiar?

 

 

Very! A bit like when you make it clear that you want to go to a certain event, but others book a holiday or make other arrangements for that time, and when the time of the event reaches you get a reply of ‘Oh why didn’t you tell me about that?’ 

[Liam]

33 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

In the short term the winners seem to be the supermarkets whose tills are ringing furiously.  Today's visit to Waitrose found nothing lacking from my list but shelves stripped bare in many areas including canned vegetables, pasta, rice, medications, sanitary products, tissues (but not toilet rolls), store-baked bread and cat food (why cat food???).  I suspect the flip side will be a sharp downturn in business when everyone realises their garages and spare rooms are full of items they won't need in this lifetime.  And maybe then those will be donated to homeless shelters, who knows?   

 

The losers seem to be the population at large who are still seeing hysterical newspaper headlines suggesting we will all be confined to home, that all public gatherings are to be outlawed and - by misinterpretation - that there is an urgent need to hoard.  I am still waiting to see the Press report Mr. Mophead as saying that if we keep calm and carry on all will be well in almost all cases and there really is no need for hype, panic or hoarding.  I am wondering who, if anyone, is in control here and what - apart from sales - might be the media's agenda.  

But that’s down south - in the North people just stick a jumper on and make a cup of tea. 

[Gwiwer]

3 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

People have become used to shouting "you can't stop me doing that, it is against my human rights" but times have suddenly changed. 

 

Maybe times have temporarily changed but the legally-defined Human Rights have not.  

[jonny777]

2 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

Maybe times have temporarily changed but the legally-defined Human Rights have not.  

 

 

But then we could get into a circular argument about the human right to not be infected by someone who is insisting on maintaining their human rights. 

[jjb1970]

The problem isn't temporary restrictions to try and control a virus but the risk that governments will use the opportunity to increase their powers to track and monitor us and usher in changes which could easily lead to something sinister under the pretext of the greater good. I really wouldn't be surprised if the tracking apps that have been rolled out in some countries quietly become a long term requirement. 

[The Stationmaster]

2 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

But then we could get into a circular argument about the human right to not be infected by someone who is insisting on maintaining their human rights. 

Precisely.  And if a Govt wishes to impose measures which restrict the movement of people it is perfectly at liberty to do so (and according to one press report is being 'actively encouraged' by the WHO to do just that, to a far greater extent than it announced very recently).  Equally although resources are definitely thin on the ground - due to long standing parsimony among all parties involved in Govt of the UK over several past decades - the Govt can introduce measures and us various organisations such as the police and military to enforce whatever measures it promulgates.

 

Hopefully people will behave sensibly and responsibly in response to what ever Govt might decide to put in place although regrettably the current, and recent, shopping habits of many might be interpreted as suggesting that is a forlorn hope.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, runs as required said:

 

Older son's law firm has just commenced working from home (approx a dozen solicitors in all). He says depending on how it goes, they could save themselves many hundreds of thousands in rent on Marylebone High St.

 

If they're prepared to pay rent for space owned by non-employees they should be prepared to pay rent for office space owned by employees. Using peoples' homes as free office space is blatant exploitation IMO.

[Reorte]

15 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

But then we could get into a circular argument about the human right to not be infected by someone who is insisting on maintaining their human rights. 

 

A dangerous path to go down. It's very easy to come up with threats and risks that could be dealt with by treating people as slaves to be ordered about at a whim, and in a great many cases it'll be effective. But not acceptable. That doesn't mean there aren't extreme situations where a degree of it is justified but they need to be very carefully thought out, handled with massive care, and really be the last resort.