Hygiene at supermarkets during Coronavirus epidemic

[kevinlms]

On 07/05/2020 at 19:37, Nearholmer said:

Have you signed-up to the reporting app ‘Covid symptom tracker’?

 

The academics running it use the responses from the 2M+ participants to extrapolate the probable number of people infected in each area of the UK each day.

 

Their estimate peaked well over 2M UK-wide, and currently stands at c270k.

 

I don’t know whether similarly well-based estimates exist for NY or Italy, for instance.

 

 

In Australia our version of the Covid app, Covidsafe has reached 5.4 million downloads.

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app

 

Here is the latest statistics for Australia.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/covid-19-data-centre-coronavirus-by-the-numbers-20200401-p54g4w.html?permanent_redirect=true

 

My local council area Yarra Ranges (this is the breakdown basis), there have been 22 cases, with no deaths.

 

[Reorte]

58 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

As I said earlier in this topic, should passengers not be tested before boarding the plane, and only allowed on if they are clear, thus avoiding potentially infecting fellow passengers and crew, and exporting the virus ? If they test positive, quarantine for the designated period at origin, if tested again and clear, then allow them to travel.

 

Ideally, but is it possible? You really need a reliable enough test that can be done quickly enough, and to be able to do it at the far end of every journey.

[kevinlms]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

 

Ideally, but is it possible? You really need a reliable enough test that can be done quickly enough, and to be able to do it at the far end of every journey.

I think you're correct, in that it takes a few days for test results. Which makes the only possible answer is to test people, lock them up in a hotel for a designated number of days and if then clear, allowed to fly.

[Mark Saunders]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

One thing about this dreadful virus that seems pretty clear is that it has been transported around the world by, primarily if not entirely, airline passengers.

 

 

The Black Death/Plague managed to get around the world but did it in years rather than months and then Spanish Flu that did it much quicker as journey times were reduced!

[kevinlms]

10 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

The Black Death/Plague managed to get around the world but did it in years rather than months and then Spanish Flu that did it much quicker as journey times were reduced!

Agreed, in the modern world you can get to almost any given point within 48 hours, without much physical effort. At least you could until a couple of months ago.

 

A time frame that could be less than you show symptoms for.

Edited May 9, 2020 by kevinlms

[Nearholmer]

36 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Which makes the only possible answer is to test people, lock them up in a hotel for a designated number of days and if then clear, allowed to fly.

The practicalities would be pretty formidable, because each person would need to be fully isolated while waiting for a result. Sounds as if ‘isolation prisons’ would be needed at each airport, but having stayed-over at airport ‘travel lodges’, the conversion to ‘prison’ would be minimal! 

[Andy Hayter]

Further to that you are unlikely to test positive until about day 5 of having been infected.   It is only when you start to shed the virus that a positive test can be assured.  So contaminated people could be allowed to fly and then infect the population at their destination as the virus develops.

[kevinlms]

27 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The practicalities would be pretty formidable, because each person would need to be fully isolated while waiting for a result. Sounds as if ‘isolation prisons’ would be needed at each airport, but having stayed-over at airport ‘travel lodges’, the conversion to ‘prison’ would be minimal! 

Some passengers have been flown back to Australia and put into quarantine for 14 days. As you state, it was apparently pretty grim.

But many of them, came off cruise ships which had the Coronavirus on them. So probably glad to be back, despite lousy food at the hotels. There were stories about people with specific dietary requirements, given nothing suitable to eat!

[polybear]

Let's face it, if those travelling to the UK are to go into quarantine then if that quarantine means "go home and don't come out for a fortnight, and self-isolate from everyone" then in the UK it just isn't going to work.  It'll either have to be secure hotels with security (preferably), or the wearing of ankle tags etc. (though the latter doesn't ensure you are keeping away from others in the same household)

 

I recall a few days ago watching one of the Coronovirus updates on TV.  One of the graphs showed a reported 82% were playing by the rules, i.e. only going out for essential exercise or food/medical needs.  Which means 1 in 5 are doing their own thing......

[TheQ]

11 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I recall a few days ago watching one of the Coronovirus updates on TV.  One of the graphs showed a reported 82% were playing by the rules, i.e. only going out for essential exercise or food/medical needs.  Which means 1 in 5 are doing their own thing......

That's certainly the case round here,  we are several miles from the nearest town but there is a constant stream of cars, bicycles,  and walkers.  If anything more than a normal bank holiday weekend. 

[caradoc]

6 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

Ideally, but is it possible? You really need a reliable enough test that can be done quickly enough, and to be able to do it at the far end of every journey.

 

Fair point, but surely no more difficult than quarantining every single arriving passenger, after infection has already been imported and spread ?

 

5 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Further to that you are unlikely to test positive until about day 5 of having been infected.   It is only when you start to shed the virus that a positive test can be assured.  So contaminated people could be allowed to fly and then infect the population at their destination as the virus develops.

 

Well, they simply should not be allowed to fly then, until proved uninfected !

 

[Reorte]

31 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Fair point, but surely no more difficult than quarantining every single arriving passenger, after infection has already been imported and spread ?

 

It very much depends on where they're coming from. There are also probably legal issues about visas and so on.

[monkeysarefun]

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

It very much depends on where they're coming from. There are also probably legal issues about visas and so on.

 

Here they've simplified it to no international arrrivals by ship or plane permitted unless you are an Australian resident. No matter where they've come from, mandatory 14 day lockup in a hotel, supervised by state and federal police.

 

Its worked well because it has prevented the Back Street Boys scheduled May tour from happening.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Here they've simplified it to no international arrrivals by ship or plane permitted unless you are an Australian resident. No matter where they've come from, mandatory 14 day lockup in a hotel, supervised by state and federal police.

 

Its worked well because it has prevented the Back Street Boys scheduled May tour from happening.

My brother's heading off the other direction soon (back to the UK), he was in Australia when it all started, the official advice he got was to stay rather than try to get home, but the visa only lasts so long. He's with his whole family, I can see the kids going nuts having to stay put when they get back.

[Nearholmer]

Mainly for Mr Monkeys

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

 

As I said, a lot of people reckon they had it over the winter.

[Butler Henderson]

To go back to the threads title the actual approach by supermarkets locally remains from the excellent to the downright appalling.

Waitrose are cleaning trolley handles for you and on one occasion were completely spraying the whole of the trolley with disinfectant.

Aldi are cleaning trolley handles when they are limiting access otherwise its a DIY job with the supplied equipment

Asda is a DIY job with the supplied equipment

Sainsburys should be a DIY job with the supplied equipment but the staff controlling access are stood straight in front of it so precluding access to it.

Morrisons, Lidl and Co-op - nothing.

M&S not sure as I only ever pick up what I can carry in my hands but they are the only store I have seen self-service checkouts being wiped after being used by a customers.

Not aware of any store wiping basket handles nor those hand held scanners, and equally not entirely sure how the DIY job stops virus spread given every other customer has touched the spray bottle and cloth and just how well across the whole cloth has the antibacterial spray spread. Have got into the habit of taking my own antibacterial cloth with me, when I remember to. NB Tesco absent from the above as their is no big Tesco locally.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Butler Henderson

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Mainly for Mr Monkeys

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

 

As I said, a lot of people reckon they had it over the winter.

Given the numbers travelling in and out of China, I am pretty sure it was over here well before any official recognition. Also recently from Paris:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554

Once the situation is a little more stable, I expect the epidemiologists will do the systematic backtrack work to better understand how, where and when it arrived, as 'we' busily circulated the globe carrying a 'little surprise'. And then there will be some rational discussions to be had about how we collectively use the knowledge we already possessed to do better next time.

 

I had a miserable time mid January to near end February, like nothing I can ever recall, a sort of low level flu that I couldn't shake off. Achy, low energy, rapid fatigue. And what had we done over the Christmas to New Year period? Socialised at several extended family and friends gatherings, with folks travelling to the UK from 'all over', including China and elsewhere in SE Asia. It's what you do when you are of a family that have spread themselves around the world, and have fairly naturally married into other families that have done likewise...

[Reorte]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Mainly for Mr Monkeys

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

 

As I said, a lot of people reckon they had it over the winter.

Both my mum and dad were pretty heavily hit before Christmas (with my mum being stuck in bed for a few days), probably having got it off my sister, who had something similar. We were all up at my brother's for Christmas (my mum was almost back to normal by then) but no-one else caught anything. But that's also peak flu time so it could very well have just been ordinary flu.

 

It certainly sounds plausible that Covid-19 was in the UK earlier than people think but the usual winter illnesses would've also been going around as usual.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Reorte

[jbqfc]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Mainly for Mr Monkeys

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

 

As I said, a lot of people reckon they had it over the winter.

 

i had something in November that had very similar symptoms to covid 19  but the doctor put it down to chest infection 

[Joseph_Pestell]

27 minutes ago, jbqfc said:

 

i had something in November that had very similar symptoms to covid 19  but the doctor put it down to chest infection 

 

The problem here is. of course, that all variants of coronavirus have similar symptoms and could be correctly called a "chest infection". My father, at the end of his life, was five weeks in hospital without them managing to identify quite what was wrong beyond "chest infection".

 

COVID-19 is just different in more often having a fatal outcome.

 

For what it's worth, I was seriously ill with similar symptoms last July. Probably not Covid-19 as, so far as I know, it was not infectious. And it was probably a bacteriological infection rather than viral because antibiotics did seem to work.

 

But I certainly agree that just because it was a doctor in Wuhan that first identified COVID-19, that does not make Wuhan the source location. Wuhan is one of the more prosperous cities in modern China and a lot of its inhabitants travel abroad. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[kevinlms]

54 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

The problem here is. of course, that all variants of coronavirus have similar symptoms and could be correctly called a "chest infection". My father, at the end of his life, was five weeks in hospital without them managing to identify quite what was wrong beyond "chest infection".

 

COVID-19 is just different in more often having a fatal outcome.

 

For what it's worth, I was seriously ill with similar symptoms last July. Probably not Covid-19 as, so far as I know, it was not infectious. And it was probably a bacteriological infection rather than viral because antibiotics did seem to work.

 

But I certainly agree that just because it was a doctor in Wuhan that first identified COVID-19, that does not make Wuhan the source location. Wuhan is one of the more prosperous cities in modern China and a lot of its inhabitants travel abroad. 

But Dr Trump knows best!

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Mainly for Mr Monkeys

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

 

As I said, a lot of people reckon they had it over the winter.

 

3 hours ago, jbqfc said:

 

i had something in November that had very similar symptoms to covid 19  but the doctor put it down to chest infection 

demonstrates why we need a reliable test for those having had it, it would give confidence to those having had it, and at last, an accurate sizing test for the government.

 

Given todays new message about staying alert, stay apart (rather than stay home), if we had mass testing in around 10 days we would know if its working. As we don't, then in around 20 days Hospitals will know if its working, and in 30 days government statisticians will know...

 

I’m not sure if that message means the lockdown is over, but if it is, next week is probably the only safe window to go out, before the next wave starts to grow exponentially...

 

I await 7pm with apprehensive baited breath, with three options..a. stay home, b. get my mother out of her isolation and stay home again or c. get out of the country with the family before it goes off big style.

confused, concerned, cocooned.. thats my message.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by adb968008

[Nearholmer]

Having listened to what the PM said, my biggest question is: what led to all the reported near-certainty that garden centres would be allowed to reopen?

 

I always thought it was an odd suggestion, because all the nominal garden centres near here are in fact “indoor shopping arcades with a bit outside that sells plants”, and are most popular with the demographic at greatest risk from Covid. Also, opening only garden centres places would cause them to become magnets for the bored, Who would then overcrowd them.

 

Maybe they will reopen, and he simply didn’t mention it; maybe the idea was touted and it became apparent that it was a bad one.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Bulleidboy100]

I think Welsh garden centres are open from tomorrow - well some.

[JSpencer]

The shops are surprising full were I am now. We had a few weeks where bread and pain au chocolates etc. where no where to be found. But no shortages at all now.

 

The only snag I had was week 1, totally crazy, you just brought what was left. Week 2, the drive through pick up shop could supply just 3 of the 25 items so had to trawal around various mini markets to fill the gaps. Week 3, drive through pick up had no available times until 2 weeks into the future - more shopping by hand at various mini markets. Week 4, could actually fix a rdv for the pick up for the next day (you not offered times until you have  finished your basket and go to pay). Start of week 5, collected both lots of pick up shopping and was surprised that had almost everything we brought. 

Like or lump it, I finished up with between 1 to 2 months of food in house instead of 1 to 2 weeks without actually ever panic buying! It will be eaten, I am very good at managing stock rotation.

 

In France they now say the virus survives 3 hours in the air, 4 hours on copper, 24 hours for cardboard and 3 days on steel or plastic, with plastic being particulary bad. We are obliged to wear masks in public transport (this on top of social distancing etc) and shop owners can insist you wear one when you enter their shop. Everyone gets a shot of hydrogel.

We'll see if deconfinement works from tomorrow.